Fresh crank bearing TQ to turn

Rope seal bottom end with standard bearings

Does 50ftlbs sound normal to turn just the crank? I know a rope seal drags it down but this seems little tight?

Pulled rear cap off turn easier but still not as free as it should imo

 

sounds tight to me. I have a short block with just crank on the stand and I can spin it by hand

 

That's too tight. Crank should spin by hand, maybe hand+(2 hands and a foot). Pull individual caps and see if it's one that is super tight. If it's tight overall with no specifc bearing being tight, that's bad. Mic the crank, i bet they cut it on the big side. Also, check the thrust before you take apart. Check to make thrust is on the correct bearing position.

 

Also check your thrust bearing clearance, it may be to tight on the crank making it hard to turn. GL


Derek

 

All standard stuff nobody has touched anything and it's the crank out of the block, I'll check thrust tomorrow and report back ha

 

50 with rings is still too tight.
With all pistons in and no rings you should be able to grab it by the snout and turn it (mock up for valvetrain and thrust setting time).
With only one ringless piston and oriented with the cylinder vertical, the second you rotate away from TDC it should push itself down by gravity.

 

Is this break away at 50" or 50 to keep it turning?

 

I pulled rear cap and trimmed a few wild strands of the rear seal out of the way and got it to 25ftlbs break away ,used EOS lube it's thick and sticky

 

Did u plastigauge it???

 

The thicker lubes do affect things, also...if you have teflon coated skirts a single droplet of moisture makes them grabby and shudder a bit.

 

.003 thrust

 

You need to sand that thrust clearance up to .0045" to .005" .

Your 25 ft lb for breakaway sounds good to me now!

 

Yea I figured I would open it up just a touch, got a rear seal on the way, just wasn't feeling confident on the rope , I pulled rear cap and could see where it appeared judging from a witness mark on the bearing that the cap was getting tilted up and making firm contact with the crank

 

When installing a rope seal always bend the seal into a U shape laying flat on a table. Then take a round bar or pipe and roll it flat. It needs to be thin enough to drop to the bottom of the seal groove. I then use a deep socket and lightly flatten the seal down, moving from the parting line down. You may set the crank in place to flatten the seal more, I have also installed the #4 cap and tightened it down a bit. This will push some of the seal out past the parting line. Remove the crank and trim the seal flush to the block. Install the seal in the cap same as the block except just roll the seal with the socket, them trim it. Install the cap, tighten it down to 50lbs them remove. There will be rope seal between the block and cap, trim with a razor blade and fold the seal up away from the edges. Re install the cap, repeat this as many times as it takes till you find no rope seal between the block & cap. It's been awhile but it seems like 25 lbs for the crank only might be a little high. I know for a complete short block rotating TQ will be 30-40 with std style rings. The lower the better

 

Try setting the thrust with a heavy brass or dead blow hammer before sanding.

 

Well after finally getting it all screwed together, the neoprene seal is where the problem was, replaced it and it spun by hand easily, after it was all buttoned up its at 35flbs breakaway TQ. So as we all know the rope seal drags more but man o man until you do both and feel the difference you wouldn't believe how different it is

 

Ring packs make a big difference, the pack you are using most likely has a 21lb oil ring expander/rails so you are not far off that when you add the other rings etc into the equation. I just did a 470 and with the ring pack I used it was 16lbs. You need to get your end play opened up a bit. Call me and I will run through setting the cap.

 

Thanks Chris, thrust ended up at a tick over .004 we'll call it .0042, it's all standard hastings cast rings on stock pistons. It's together to stay Blow or go ha we'll see I reckon, having to get the heads welded up , whoever put the exhaust seats in hit water and they just packed it with JB Weld, so they are being spraywelded

 

On the heads save yourself a PIA by getting a bottle of Goodson supply FW-2, then have the leaking seats pulled , apply the fluid weld and install new seats.
It works like a charm and will save you a bunch of money!
In fact this is what should have been applyed to the seats in the first place!

 

Loctite is commonly used in fleet rebuilding situations, even with some criticism against.
Many hard running heavy duty/industrial-cannot-fail-engines have seats that cut into the water jackets and do not see failure after running some type of goop into the water jackets...IF the loctited seat doesn't pass the pressure test done to every head done this way.
The whole process is steered away from with the home rebuilder/local machine shop market because it's time consuming for everyone involved and simply not profitable for a local shop to deal with (or risk being blamed by an under-equipped home builder). I can assure you that thousands are done every day around the world like this or with something similar to FW2.
I would definitely question JB weld and it's ability to deal with heat and expansion, being that the seat is dealing with a good portion of the valve's cooling.
Doing over 1000 heads a week, spray welding wasn't ever considered for a repair like this, that's more practical for building up large flat surfaces.