Im missing something Very obvious...what is it? Deutz Diesel

Chad your almost there. The time it takes to get the fuel leaks fixed will be worth it.

I take it that the fuel feed pump, (looks like a car fuel pump) has a primer lever on it to help bleed the system.
Use that lever and crack open the bleed screw at the filter if it has one. Start at the filter, bleed it until it runs clear, then move on to the pump. (Not the injectors, but just the bleed screw at the pump)

If you can't get clear, bubble free fuel at the filter, then find the source of that leak, which is usually a bad hose, a worn clamp or a clamp that is too big, or even the pickup in the tank could be sucking air. Once you get the filter running clear with the lift pump lever, then move to the FI pump. If you get clear fuel to those two points and bleed the injectors, get it running for a few min and then bleed each injector, one at a time. It will look foamy at the injector a little, and will never bleed just clear fuel since it is under pressure, but bleed it a time or two. At that point it should be good.

Your starter? I would ask around and find a good starter rebuilder and have them rebuild it. It should be less expensive than a new one. I would go to one or 2 of the good local diesel repair shops and see who they use, and go to them, I would not drop it off at a diesel repair shop, they usually will just farm it out. The shops I worked at, we would rebuild air starters in house, but would farm the electric one's out to a local rebuilder. You can do that too.

Hope that helps.

 

OK. So far so good. Regarding the starter. I took it apart and cleaned up the armature contact points. One brush was not moving freely. Also lubed main bearing with white lithium. Overall, the starter is performing better. Engine is still hard to start initially. Small puffs of white smoke, but now I can get it started with one battery and a sprits of gas. (dont shot me for this). Then she purrs along with plenty of power to move and dig with the bobcat - quite impressively with little apparent load on the engine - little to no RPM drop. In the coming months I'll pull the injectors to have them checked.

 

Good deal ! Glad to hear the starter repair worked out and you saved some $$$. As long as you don't see exhaust glowing or too much black smoke or any more noise than normal ( yeah the Deutz are noisy animals !) run that little puppy and reset the valves in a few hours running time. The goal is to get her running with out any spritz of anything....

By the way. Does that engine have a glow plug(s) either in the cylinder heads or in the intake manifold to preheat the engine before starting? That could cause poor to very hard starts.

Good to hear it worked out so far .

Dadrider

 

Yes has two fresh Ford 6.0 glow plugs installed. I used the old ones and made an adapter. MUCH cheaper.

So here are a few interesting points.

Depending on how I shutdown it will start up with less cranking. Specifically I have to play with the throttle to kill fuel (per the manual) but if I manage to yank the level back to WOT at the right time the engine will shut down but start with out gas.

Cold starts (yesterday) needed seconds literally for it to start with a spray of gas and a few seconds of the glow plugs.

So, it seems that fuel is still a problem, maybe valve or compression. One rocker arm still works loose a tad, but tight or loose start up is the same. If it sits for 24 hours I can crank cold, no glow plugs, no gas and it is a gamble whether I get small puffs of white smoke (I think this goes back to how I shutdown). Sprits a little gas, let sit a few seconds allowing gas to create fumes and crank, the gas fires spinning the engine a tad quicker with the starter aiding, smoke is usually slightly black and then we're off and running. And yes this thing is a noise freak of nature.

 

Chad give this a try.

Usually when a engine has glow plugs you need to energize the glow plugs for about 15 to 20 seconds on the first start of the day. When you shut the engine down and say fire it back up 10 min later, it should not need glowing. If it sits for 30 min or more then the 10 to 15 sec glow would seem about right, IIRC

And yes the outside ambient has a lot to do with that first start of the day. I don't know what the Deutz owners manual says, but from what I recall on the smaller / older not ECU type diesels a 15 to 20 sec glow time is required to get the combustion chamber warm enough to light off the engine fairly easily.

If it has glow plugs they need to be used the 1st start of the day and anytime the engine cools down to near ambient.

I hope that helps a little. Does your manual give you a time in seconds to glow the engine first start of the day?

Eventually we have to get that little bugger weaned off of gas spritz to start her up. It will hurt her in the long run. Especially the rod bearings and wrist pins. Starting with gas is like using detonation on a gasoline engine, to start the engine. It pounds the rod bearing when there is no oil pressure to that journal yet.

On a cold 30 degree day, I have used kerosene on a rag to start or help start a EMD, but not gas. EMD's don't have glow plugs in them, they are big bore. I have seen what it does to the larger engines, so I have always stayed away from assist on smaller ones. It can do them in over a period of weeks to several months.

Yes those engines especially the Deutz, & Listers not so much, but some of them sound as if they are about to fly apart even when all is right.

Good luck

Dadrider.

 

:gp:

OK. ou:ou:ou: I re-read the start up procedure after reading your statements about glow plug use. I've been doing it wrong. Cold start glow plugs need to be used for 30-60 seconds. 1-2minutes in low temperatures (<50 degrees).

:spank:

Once I get the drive pulley fixed for the cooling fan...another story. :rant:

I might actually follow the procedure next time and see how hard it really is to start.ray:

 

If you haven't already, you might try changing the fuel filter.

 

>>Victory has been achieved.<<

It turns out one of my glow plug adapters made from the originals was the source for low compression (engine warm) ~130psi on one cylinder vs the 275psi on the other cylinder. I had to weld in some more material into the adapter and re-cut threads. So, preheating the engine with the glow plugs for 60 seconds and then cranking according the procedure, the engine started as it should. No gas. Ran the engine for about five minutes and then cranked again no glow plug assist and she fired right off. Ran a few minutes and then let sit a few minutes before repeating a second time. She puffs a little blue smoke mostly at start up and high rpm - probably oil from the guides - but Im not asking much from her. Ill keep an eye on oil till I can get the valves/valve guides worked.

Thanks for the friendly advice and reading about my blunders.


:TU:

 

Hooray !!!
Nice work !

 

Just when you thought you forgot about this thread . Still loving this little deutz powered bobcat even though I've about run out of home projects for it....for now. So it itself has been the target of projects. So the update regarding the engine is as follows. She's still burning some oil so the first question to the experts is a confirmation of one source and maybe the only source of oil burning being the valve train. While running she'll occasionally puff at the ignition rate of a cylinder almost like an occasional spark miss on a gas engine, I have a video of it. I think it is still oil by passing a valve guide and valve stem. In the video the lighting is a little off, you seen puffs from each cylinder and the occasional large puff. The best way to describe is she'll run for a few seconds and puff on one cylinder. No real rpm loss just a prr with an occasional puff. I did replace the injector nozzles as I thought maybe one of the injectors was lazy - the problem persists to some extent. Nevertheless, The new nozzles have had some effect, a little easier starting and the "puff" isn't as bad. So this is a sign for a valve issue or a Injection pump issue - I think...
I removed the head and upon inspection there is plenty of carbon around the lower exhaust valve stem and combustion side of the valve(cylinder #2). I dont know if this is conclusive. I did some measuring of the valves and the guides so that I can do a DIY valve job since there are no parts available that are easy to look up. But, I also want to know about the injection pump. Maybe it is a little worn, any body with knowledge of these mechanical injection pumps? The puff isn't a pretty blue maybe, kinda a blue hue...maybe. Lighting in the video is a little off due to sun. There is no white smoke unless at the beginning of a cold start then nice black and then off she's running. Take note between the 2 -3 second mark.

So, Oil burning from valves or lazy injection pump?

Edit: I had added umbrella seals to the top of all the valve guides last year, so this is another reason why this is puzzling.

Video link:

 

Just some cold starts for ya! ws

 

Jeez Bill, my old GM 6.2 Diesel would start instantly at zero with just a few seconds of glow plugs. It didn't make all that smoke and fuss either - it would just settle down into a smooth idle. I guess we haven't come all that far after all.