intake valves

Discussion in ''Da Nailhead' started by gsgtx, Nov 29, 2016.

  1. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    oops, I missed the obvious on Dualquad's post!
    The weight difference is probably not due to the concave face (1 cc or so?) which would also probably not be noticed for any power increases.

    The question of a tall thin port or split port is a fantastic one...
    The layout of the Nail's intake port into chamber when used in other makes is capitalizing on enhancing 'tumble' into the cylinder (when arrangement as the typical 4 valve), but in the nail the port's bowl 'swirls' the mixture fairly hard.
    That's one of the reasons Nails are so strong at low rpm, so it must be taken into account.

    66gsconv knows as much as anyone about porting these...his heads have eclipsed anyone else's #'s AFAIK, and do so using sbc valves.

    The titanium valve option is an interesting one too.
    A. There are sbc 2.000 1.550" stock stem and length ones off the shelf from Manley if needed but...I don't use them even on 7800rpm engines.
    B. They will not tolerate any mishaps under boost or with nitrous.
     
  2. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    John if your talking about the long tube headers you got from me years ago they will really help your 425ci nailhead 20-25 hp and 25-30 tq i will bet you. going to be looking for a set for this motor most likely, like to test it with out headers first and then with.
     
  3. Aussie V8

    Aussie V8 Well-Known Member

    Did you buy exhaust valves as well ? If you want to sell the set for 1/2 price --- let me know :laugh:
     
  4. 66gsconv

    66gsconv nailhead apprentice

    After seeing this thread and thinking about this subject I have a quistion for some of you that are are above my pay grade when it comes to engine building. If I was to " blueprint " a engine , would I be checking lower end sizes? The weight and balances. On the heads would you do the same things? I have never done anything like that but if you had very heavy valves where would you take the extra grams off at? I have thought about buying one of the books out there. Never thought about valves... Engine building 101 ? Anyway waiting for the lecture :Smarty: :TU:
     
  5. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    It wouldn't be practice to take weight from valves to make them all the same.
    A very high rpm top shelf engine wouldn't use reground valves or ones with different dimensions anyways, so I guess they already are blueprinted.
    A gram is quite a bit of material, meaning if the valves have similar dimensions and are essentially the same valve, you wouldn't find a 1/10 gram difference.
    When I was skimming the above responses I noticed it eluded to that the engine would rev faster from a lighter set of valves.
    This might not be the claim, but I think people might mistake that.
    I do not believe that to be an accurate statement, especially when talking about a sub 6500 heavy rotator engine.
    A lighter valve would need less spring to control and have the capability to move faster before control was lost.
     
  6. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    i guess part of blueprinting a head would be to cc each chamber and make them all equal. Ken the exhaust valves are stock weight. but your welcome to the intake valves at no charge.
     
  7. John Codman

    John Codman Platinum Level Contributor

    Buick Nailhead combustion chambers are fully machined. They should all be equal from the factory.
     
  8. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    there was a lot of old sayings about the nail head when i first got on this site some true and some not. stroking it would make you go slower. not true, now even Russ is building stroke engines. that you need a wide cam LSA to go faster. can't get to 400 hp and 500 tq for a street motor.can't go fast with a 2-speed tranny, all not true. how about the true stuff that i went and tried anyways lol, how about some of Tom T and Doc and some of the guys sayings, keep tight clearance if you want good oil pressure and you don't need a lot of timing because of the head chamber. you need heat in the intake, the bigger the carb the better,never put new exhaust seats in a nail head, check new cam bearings for being to tight and making the cam tight on the lobes, must be more i forgot. all are true statements. how about Walt with his research, specs and part numbers and Bob in St Louis with his head and intake porting getting the heads to flow and make power even in the upper rpms, priceless lol. V8 Buick is really the best site for help and information, that reminds up i have to donate, lol
     
  9. wkillgs

    wkillgs Gold Level Contributor

    ^^^^^ So true! The Nailhead certainly is an unique one!
    Joe, you've built some of the best performing Nailheads here by not following the conventional old school mods, and trying the 'abnormal' cams, transmissions and gear ratios! LOL!
    But what we still lack, as far as public knowledge anyway, is real Nailhead recipes that give various stages of performance. Also lack dyno-proven results for different cams, headers, carbs, etc.
    For any other popular engine, you can pick a recipe for a certain hp level, buy the parts and just build it.
    Seems like us Nailhead guys are in a constant R&D phase still searching for what works.
    It ain't easy being a Nailheader!
     
  10. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    Combinations have to be taken with a grain of salt anyways...
    Even with head #'s (being limited to cfm's) there are drastic differences in the way they turn out.
    An example is a 690hp pump gas combo I've done a few times (not nailhead, but bear with me...).
    A 270* @ .050" 105* LSA flat tappet cam would still idle @ 900 rpm with enough vacuum for brakes.
    A head having only 18 cfm more and the same valve size wouldn't idle below 1400 and had low vacuum.
    HP was similar with the carb being the restriction.
    Significant difference in torque where a street converter flashes at and at part throttle driving.
    A wider exhaust valve seat was the difference between pump or high octane gas, they had the same compression and chamber shape.
    The same cam but with a Ford lifter rather than an .842" (cut block) was much tamer, despite the added few degrees of duration.

    They do turn out EXACTLY the way they are engineered to, whether you are aware of the minute differences or not.

    Some people are not using their R&D to freely share so others can benefit. That's why they sell complete engines, keep info proprietary or limited at best.
     
  11. Gary Farmer

    Gary Farmer "The Paradigm Shifter"

    There's a big difference in reading about something vs actually having the skills to put it to use.

    Research and Development are usually relative to the skillset, depending on whether or not the one(s) doing it are the same who do the physical work.

    I could try my best to describe what it's like to contour metal, shaping and reshaping with heat, shrinking, expanding, thickening, thinning, and techniques involving body fillers, adhesives, fiberglass and plastic--and anyone could read the information and know which materials to get, which mixtures to use, methods of application and everything that you're supposed to do 'on paper', but if they aren't familiar with it or their skill level is too low or are inexperienced, would end up with a huge mess and would believe me to be telling falsehoods.

    Another analogy would be trying to tell someone how to paint a picture, or sculpt a statue. Sounds simple until you put your hands to it.

    Even with all this, some will be able to learn it, while others will not. It doesn't necessarily mean one person is better than everyone else, or even better than others in his/her particular field; what it does mean is that it requires a certain knack or talent, and so explaining or describing could be done without fear of someone else benefiting from all the hard work that went into developing the finished product prior to that point. Even sharing knowledge within ones own field almost always shows different results depending on who is doing the work.

    As a fabricator, one must be able to look at something and figure it out, why it works, how it works, and if it could be improved. One has to visualize it in ones mind, to move it around like a 3 dimensional object and see it from every angle possible, and how it will (or needs to) fit in with everything else around it, whether it will act more independently or be a part of a synergistic effect. One also has to be able to see in the past and into the future, to piece together what it may have looked like at an earlier time, or what it may look like should specific events continue or be introduced.

    The problem with custom work is that most of your best work is usually covered up and will forever go unseen and unappreciated, and all anyone will ever know is that it's holding up and lasting a long time--but in the case with building engines, you at least have something to show for it that can be physically experienced (the power, sound, etc.), unlike body work where the paint covers everything up, and so as long as the gaps are good and passes inspection (character lines in order, etc.), the painter gets all the glory.

    This is not always the case, but all too often it is. The days of appreciating quality work with cars is fading away with the newer generations.

    Anyway, just some of my thoughts.

    Sorry for the tangent.
     
  12. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    ^^ Spoken like a true artist.
     
  13. 66gsconv

    66gsconv nailhead apprentice

    Well said man,
     
  14. Gary Farmer

    Gary Farmer "The Paradigm Shifter"

    Hey thanks fellas.

    It's a curse really. OCD, ADD, and 50/50 left and right brain on every test, the eternal pursuit of getting things 'just right' and 'it's good enough' after mulling over things to death can get quite maddening.

    Ultimately left with 'oh well' and moving on to something else, only to return again, adding more and more to the pool of interests.

    My main regret is that there isn't enough years in this life to learn more and more.

    Sorry again for the tangent. It's nice to come here and read/comment on all the different subjects and share my own thoughts.

    Thanks to everyone for putting up with me! lol

    So many different personality types here who love Buick for similar or different reasons makes for a very interesting recipe for entertainment and education.
     
  15. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    I will send the valves out Monday.
     
  16. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    Tom T. how many cc difference in tulip valve vs flat valve ?. Thanks
     
  17. Aussie V8

    Aussie V8 Well-Known Member

    Thanks Joe. Much appreciated. :beers2:
     
  18. John Codman

    John Codman Platinum Level Contributor

    Those headers are still in the box and just moved to Florida with me. I have a number of projects before I get involved with a header installation. There are a few things that I did with the pickup that I would not do the same way again, and I want to replace the cab - again. Another thing that has to happen before I attempt to install the headers is to find a really good custom exhaust shop in SW Florida that works with stainless steel pipes. I will need my beautifully-done exhaust system to be connected to the headers. I hate Mickey Mouse exhaust systems.
    Back to horsepower vs torque - I don't challenge your hp and torque figures, but even with the potential increase from the headers, The Nailhead will still at best come out at about 365 hp (with monstrous torque). If what I was interested in was high-rpm horsepower, I would have installed a Chevy crate motor and saved a ton of work and money. And it would be boring!
     
  19. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    that's cool, yes a nice exhaust is good. hope you find a good shop.:TU:
     
  20. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    hey Tom, bet your sleeping in, I see a 3:30 am post.:) lol
     

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