To reach that 600hp mark I think I have a solid plan. Since I am still in training wheels regarding 455s some good input is always welcome I purchased a machined short block assembly (previous owner built a few 455s) 75 455 block (line checked, bearing clearances within factory spec), bored 30 over, clevite main and con bearings attached to speed pro hyper pistons, and hastings rings, decked 020 (supposed to be 9.5-9.75 compression) (need to pop con rods out and send to TA for ones machined with ARP bolts) TA 413 cam edelbrock heads from Tri Shield Performance (lightly ported and worked), Chevy roller rockers TA SP1 intake quadrajet (850 cfm) to keep good road manners long tube headers ta oil mods
Yeah to get 600 you would need more compression. A roller cam and heads flowing in the 330 range on the intake side. Aluminum heads dissipate heat better than Iron. A lot of times you can bump your compression north of 10:1 with aluminum heads. And 600 is a nice figure but unless your dead set on that 500 horses is still plenty of fun. Good Luck Jesse Z.
I have to agree with both opinions above, If you want 600 HP you need more compression, AND FORGED PISTONS. more cam and fully ported heads.
Take the time to read through this thread, In it, 3 cams are tested in the same block, one of them, the TA413. The other 2 are a Lunati fast ramp cam, and the roller cam. That block ultimately didn't survive. My TA aluminum Stage 1SE heads flowed 334/250 @ .600 lift. There is a lot of information relative to your intended goals. http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.p...-Specs-and-testing-(Larry-s-motor)&highlight= The second motor used a smaller roller cam and made a little less HP and torque. http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.p...-s-motor)-Complete-and-Dyno-tested&highlight=
I didn't realize 600 is such a difficult number to reach. I can have the guys at Tri Shield do more magic on the heads so thats not a issue. what cam do you guys suggest for decent street manners (and power brakes) Would it be possible to reach a 600 mark without a roller cam? pistons are my Achilles heel. Would a standard set of Stage 1 forged pistons work or would they need notched? What about CFM? I see some running 900+ some run 750. How much of a difference does it make on a street/strip application?
"Lightly ported", 9.5:1, and a 413 cam will get you close to the 500HP range with all the right stuff but 600HP would require a 100 shot of nitrous at least. Also if you do port the heads heavily, zero deck the block and mill the heads for higher compression, and cam it up more appropriately to make power at 6000 rpm you'll find that the Speed Pro "hyper" pistons at that engine speed start to crack the piston pin boss which will relieve you of the engine block if they completely fail at speed. Been there, done that and also have seen the cracks before they caused any damage. From my experience if you have the power to get the car into the low 12's in a normal weight car the hypers are at their limits. Keep the rpm to 5500 and the power level at 500 and you should have no problem. Of course if you shift at a lower rpm or make less power or get on it infrequently then their life can be extended but then you shouldn't really be worried about "600HP". Since you're new to the BBB I'd like to add that in a typical BBB while only being rated at 500HP, in a correctly set up car, will act more like a typical 550HP small block because the 500HP BBB will put out a torque number noticeably higher than its' HP number while the small block will be lucky to even get close to a torque number equaling its HP number allowing the BBB to accelerate faster especially at lower rpm. That is one reason I always look at what a car can do on the dragstrip with a particular engine and compare it to what kind of power it is claimed to have, especially those small blocks. If you want 600 HP the bigger carb will be mandatory. If you want any kind of idle the roller cam will be necessary and probably will run power brakes. 600 is a number. What car is this for and what do you want to do with it?
You will need notched pistons MINIMUM of 10.5 to 1 comp, at least 330cfm and a cam in the 240ish range to even get close and even still you will come up short. A roller cam is generally worth 25hp over the same flat tappet grind. 600hp street engines with pump gas isn't all that easy when you limit cam and compression
600 HP is not that hard to reach. Keeping it as streetable as you need might not be as easy. You want the best heads you can get. Yes, more porting. I think there is a CNC program for porting the Edelbrocks, think it cost about 1100.00, but it produced some good numbers. http://www.buyracingparts.com/cylin...brock-performer-cnc-ported-heads---60049.html I think the 413 cam is a good choice, power brakes should be no problem. If you read the thread I linked, the roller was worth 30 HP Forged pistons are the way to go. Yes, they need to have valve reliefs. BBB's like big carburetors, they make more power. I run a Quadrajet on the street and a 1000 CFM 4150 type carburetor at the track. I can swap carburetors easily in 15 minutes. As long as you have the SP1 with the Quadrajet opening, you can do the same. There is close to 2 tenths, and 2 MPH trap speed at the track in my car. Consider the 470, http://www.trishieldperformance.com/470--what-and-why-.html
Its interesting that Fred Catlin can make well above 600 hp with ported cast iron stage 1's and well above 700 with ported cast iron stage 2 heads but it been hard to make 600 with heads that flow better then either heads above. You guys are doin something wrong. Just saying.
I did some figuring for 600 horses vs 500. For 500 hp pistons (already on shortblock) $0 413 TA cam $189 Delphi TA lifters $79 rebuild Q Jet 850 CFM $315 Ede Heads lightly ported, head work from Tri Shield $2950 Total $3533 600 hp price difference Forged TA notched pistons $695 roller TA cam $644 roller lifters TA $695 Lifter girdle TA $395 950 CFM Holly Carb (Jegs) $563 CNC ported assembled Ede Heads complete (Competition Components) $3600 Total $6592 $3000 for just 100 additional hp is a little steep. I am going to stick with 500 for now, because cash is a issue. Maybe later I can do the proper upgrades to reach the 600 mark. My 70 Electra will be a joy with 500, but 600 may give it bad road manners. I am thinking of having the deck milled down another .010 to raise the compression a little more (it was milled .020 already). A 2500 stall converter should make a big difference to. The more I learn about these big blocks the more I want out of them. :Brow:
I just built a 470 E head pump gas bracket motor, and dynoed it last week. 590 TQ/620 HP. Here's the build 470 rotating assembly Block girdle and filled block Lifter bore girdle 253/267@.050- 109LC 560/608 lift- solid roller cam ( solid for rpm operation ability above 6000rpm- this build pre-dated the discovery of the high rev Johnson lifters for a hyd roller cam) That cam would be roughly the size of a Gibson cam in hyd roller (243/255) throw it on a wide lobe center, and it would in fact be wild, but you could run it on the street. TSP Edelbrock heads- full port 320/225 cfm Comp cams ultra roller rockers, adjustable guide plates, correct 7/16 studs TA SPX intake with Dominator flange and 3.5hrs plenum work-- portmatched 10.2-1 compression- this should run on 87 octane with this cam, DCR in the 6's 1050 Dominator MSD 8517 with Taylor wires. While far from optimized, it's was a study on low compression, tuning friendly 600 HP bracket BBB engines with Edelbrock heads. Hi compression E-85/C-12 version of this would be around 700 HP. So 600 HP with the E head is attainable, even without the big compression. I have another one going to the dyno next week, the goal is 600 HP with E heads, and a more street friendly build. it's 10.6-1, SPX, same heads 234/244/113 hyd roller. 850 Holley. Now the advice you have been given is good.. focus less on the number, and more on the driveablity for a street car. Better heads require less camshaft to reach the same point, so off peak performance is improved. 500 HP with 540ish Torq is a nice street motor. And I would not run those pistons in a stock engine. That's the bad news.. good news is that you can directly swap them out for the TRW forged version, the block will have to be honed slightly larger. Spend the time and money now to insure durability. While high rpm kills those pistons, so does detonation.. at 350 HP.. :eek2: JW
I purchased the short block with these hypers and thought I could use them, but I am going to swap them. I would rather pay some more and have the peace of mind they won't shatter on me. Are the Speed Pro forged pistons the only ones that will be a easy swap for these paperweights? I am also thinking about increasing compression now since new pistons are on the list. By my understanding with the SP Forged if I mill the deck another 10 (so 30 total mill) and use steel head gaskets I should get right about 10/1, but with the TA 413 how high can I go on 91 octane?
Just a FYI, milling .030" off the deck and using a .020" gasket will cause some intake misalignment issues, so you'll need to mill the intake side of the head or the intake itself. Good luck with your build. Personally to gain the compression you're looking for I'd get custom pistons that raise the compression to what you want without needing to mill more off the block or thin gaskets, even though they are more the total cost will be about the same since you don't have to do the extra milling. gary
I sure wish you were in Central Florida. Would love to give someone like you my Buick 455 and for a nominal fee, get back a motor that was reliable, fun on weekends, and was easy to fuel up. 5-600hp is still a dream for me. Seems like every time I see a post like this, I get all excited, then I see the location... MN, CA, NY, AZ, etc... just can't bring myself to ship across the country.
Read this, http://www.empirenet.com/pkelley2/DynamicCR.html There is a great calculator you can download at the end of the article. I use it all the time. With the SCR at 10:1, and the TA413 on a 109* ICL, the DCR is 7.52 right at the bottom of the pump gas range.
Steve, Go see Scotty G in Spring Hill, tell him I said "Hi".. bring him a motor that is not the one in your car, and he will fix you right up. He's busy, and it will take a while, but he's in your backyard. http://www.scottysracingengines.com/ JW PS.. that bracket motor is going to the far western tip of Washington State, and I am currently buillding motors for folks in 12 different states, from NY to Oregon.. Truck freight makes it pretty easy, and is reasonably priced.
Jim, Is that the 470 you showed me in your engine room? Pretty wild mod on the lifter bore girdle I must say!
