My dealings with John Massoud..Not Good

Discussion in 'Buyer/Seller Feedback' started by copperheadgs1, May 3, 2012.

  1. copperheadgs1

    copperheadgs1 copperheadgs1

    Let me begin this by saying I do not take lightly attacking anyones reputation here but I beleive this is well deserved. John Massoud who many may know here from racing his GS at many Buick events told me he could rebuild a street 455 for me for about $3000-$3500 based on a sound block that would need a bore and not honed. I gave John in early May of 2011$1000.00 and the engine and all my parts. I told him I did not need it back until September of 2011. He said it would be ready for July 2011. I said fine. He called me on two more occassions asking for more money so I gave him another $1000.00 and then another day $500. I would call him to check on the progress but he always said the machine shop was very busy. This went on for quite some time. After getting more concerned not even knowing what shop my stuff was at I called John more often and by this time it was well into winter. John alway told me maybe next week or he was busy working or other personal issues. I am not insensitive to this stuff having lost my mother while all this was going on. On one call John told me if I kept bugging him all my parts were going to get thrown out on his lawn. I knew right then I would never get a finished engine. John has an incredible knack for making you feel like that bad guy when all I did was give him alot of money and parts where I had no idea where they were. I did some searching and found out the shop my engine was at. After several calls the shop owner came clean with me. My block had been done for some time and John owed him $800. Now this had been 9 months since I gave him the engine and I had offered to let him out of the deal many times if he could not finish it. He always said he would finish it. I even offered him a $500 bonus. He never said yes of no because he owed the shop $800. Where the hell did my money go? It was racing season when I gave him all the money you know. I finally had had enough and went to the shop and paid for it myself. John had given them a small amount for down payment. Through a mutual friend I got all my other parts from John and the following items. A Felpro head Gasket kit, Rear main seal, freeze plugs and valve cover gaskets. John also may have taken apart the block and cleaned it. John or someone also assembled the timing cover. I am having it looked at by someone else now as I wold never trust it.My guess is someone else did it. The crank was polished only and the rods were set up using the original bolts. I was not happy with that and the machine shop was not etiher as they had no idea who did them. They also said the rods were not well balanced and may not have come from my engine. Then on top of John's Bill of $800 I had to spend more money on ARP bolts and setting up th rods correctly. The bottom line here is I gave John money in good faith and for my $3300 plus extra to fix the rods I got an unnassembled engine with few parts. The machine shop also paid for the pistons and cam. John also promissed bearings, lifters and timing chain which never existed. As far as I can tell John Owes me about $1500. I called him and offered to let him out if he would pay me $1000.
    He would not take my call and called my friend and told him "He is not getting Nothing"..This is not meant to be a personal attack but just the facts..I you are thinking of have any work done by him do not..I do have three signed receipts I made up and had John Sign when I gave him money. I also have them from shop. This may end up in court. My guess is John has no records of anything. The offer still stands If I get back $1000 I will forget all.
     
    70skylark350 likes this.
  2. paul c

    paul c Well-Known Member

    sounds messy, good luck.
     
  3. ceas350

    ceas350 "THE BURNER"

    Small claims court
     
  4. john.schaefer77

    john.schaefer77 Well-Known Member

    I've read accounts like this all over the forum, this makes me think twice about getting ANY work done. Doesn't even matter when an individual was a good rep and many people can account for the service. People can change at any time. Good luck.
     
  5. ken betts

    ken betts Well-Known Member

    I don't know very many people on this site personally, but from experience most of you would be better off building the motor yourself. If you can change your oil and bolt and torque a cylinder head on you can build your own engine. You need a very competent machine shop. Check with the most reliable and fastest at your local strip. They and others on this board can help. All an engine builder is, is a parts and clearance checker. They check every part to make sure its exactly what it is suppose to be, installed right and has the proper clearance. Places like TA Perf. can help you choose the right parts. There are a few others you can look up on this board in the Add section that are very good. I had the last machine shop do all my work in less than a week. It took me less than a day to check and assemble it. It took me far longer to figure what I wanted and get all the parts. I don't build motors for others for the problem you are having. People have problems and other priorities. If you don't own the tools to put your motor together borrow, buy or rent what you need. Grumpy Jenkins once said the best and worst engine builders are within 15 to 20 HP difference. If your not going Pro Stock I don't think you should worry. It should not take 9 mos. to over a year to go through this whole process. Even with the Nitro motor we have had all the motor parts for months, even the crank just waiting to make decisions. Now that we have made head decisions we are moving again. I am not concerned because this is not for a customer. I think you could build your own in less than a month while working full time. Check everything twice and find someone close from the board to help.
     
  6. sriley531

    sriley531 Excommunicado

    This seems to be a common story that pops up every so often, "i paid xxxx dollar up front and got screwed". While i say shame on the individuals who are shady enough to pull such things, the moral of the story is dont pay till the jobs done. My shop refuses payment until my engine is off the dyno and totally finished, which is how it should be. And ALWAYS get receipts!! Im not saying you are at fault for any of this, but what i am saying is ive seen quite a few threads like this and its really unsettling that it keeps happening. Heres to hoping you get some of your funds returned.
     
  7. 1967 Big Buick

    1967 Big Buick One day at a time.

    Sorry to hear of your situation, Good luck.
     
  8. Schurkey

    Schurkey Silver Level contributor

    Taco Bell, KFC, Burger King, Wendys, etc. = pay in advance

    Upscale restaurant = eat first, pay at conclusion.

    There's a lesson to be learned there.
     
  9. 71skylark3504v

    71skylark3504v Goin' Fast In Luxury!

    Good comparison, and 100% true. Never pay upfront!
     
  10. online170

    online170 Well-Known Member

    I learned this lesson the hard way last year. Sounds pretty much the same as your experience but on a smaller scale. Man I could almost relate exactly to your experience.

    How they make you feel like the bad guy. How they keep behaving like they are doing you a favor. How the money MUST get paid on time, but to hell with finishing the job on time or well. The constant bugging for money. Itll be ready next week....:Dou: Then when you finally get the part, you are so happy you got something back, you have to kinda eat it when the job is done wrong or sloppy.

    Gave my heads to a machinist in Feb 2011, and now May 4th 2012, "itll be ready next week". :dollar: You cant just walk away with parts either because then youre out of alot of money.

    Where did your money go? He paid the other guy that he owed money to. It happens to so many small businesses when they are goin under. They wrong their customers to pay their debts and offer an apology, sometimes not even that.


    Best of luck with your endeavors, sorry you had to go through that.
     
  11. stagetwo65

    stagetwo65 Wheelie King

    There are two sides to every story. You posted yours, and I've talked to John about his. You had your say, and now I'll have mine. You make a post that's bound to make people think less of him....Well his side of the story is that you are nothing but a royal pain in the ass, with no idea what things cost in the real world.
    John built a race motor for me out of a bunch of spare parts that I a) had laying around , b) procured from friends for peanuts , and c) other friends donated to my cause. John took this pile of mishmosh and donated a solid lifter cam that he'd been saving for himself, and over the next several months he built me an 800 hp motor that ran a best ET of 9.16 at 149.68 mph. John builds motors as a side gig when he's not slaving on the loading dock all day because he loves doing it, not to make money. If he sat down and figured his dollar-per-hour numbers when he finishes a motor, he's probably making $1.65 an hour.
    Regarding your dealings with John, according to him you have no idea what things like this actually cost and if he'd turned your job down from the beginning and sent you to an engine shop that was going to handle everything from start to finish, including parts, machine work, and assembly....you'd have a much more realistic idea of just how much this stuff all costs. You imply he was trying to get over on you and you think he owes you money? John has already told me he's done building stockers and street motors because of how frustrating and annoying it is dealing with customers like you, while struggling to be the primary caregiver for a sick, elderly mother. His tribulations aren't your problem, but that's his life. I've lived it and I know what he deals with every day. So sometimes side work is going stay on the side.
    He says he's going to stick with race motors only from now on because racers have more insight into the costs and time that's involved. Believe me, no one one this board has had more engines built for them than me! (and I'll stand by that statement until someone can prove otherwise) I'm not capable of building them myself and I still choose to go racing. I've had several machine shops, engine builders, body shops, chassis shops, and parts suppliers fail to come through with deadlines or price quotes or what-have-you. The key is to touch base often without breaking their balls (too much) and pissing them off (too much). I keep myself calm (most of the time) by reminding myself that I've NEVER had an engine on time or on budget. **** happens.
    If you think you can get it done perfectly, quickly, and cheaply by a professional machine shop/engine builder, I invite you to try. John spent enough time on your stuff that he's out money as well. Forget about getting any money back and move on. Post your results when you get the motor finished and make sure to include how much it cost you, not even including the disputed amounts between you and John. You are in for a rude awakening, which I suspect you already know. And you can take that from someone who has poured thousands (millions?) into engines and such.
     
  12. Jim Rodgers

    Jim Rodgers Well-Known Member

    Doug,

    I think that might have been a little over the top. :Dou:

    All,

    I will go on record and say I've had some dealings with Dave and he seems like a very honest and straightforward guy to me. A year should be enough time to complete the job in my opinion, especially if it was promised back in 2 months (July?). There is never anything wrong with communication, reguardless of the circumstances. And if you make an agreement, wether to complete a job or to pay for it, it is best to hold up your end of the agreement.

    I know and like John as well, but we have never had dealings together.

    Hopefully this gets worked out to everyones satisfaction. :confused:
     
    70skylark350 likes this.
  13. Schurkey

    Schurkey Silver Level contributor

    His choice. The customer does not owe him a profit. The customer owes him the quoted money--IF the project is completed on time. Money is paid for services rendered, and the services obviously were not rendered. This is WHOLLY the fault of the service provider.

    Where's the end product? What about the promises up-front? Why would he accept the job in the first place? If this guy knows so much about engines, he clearly knew that the price that he quoted was unrealistic and that he couldn't do the job. You've made it clear that this was premeditated gouging. (i.e., theft by deception)

    ...because the customer has been screwed, and unless the customer fights it in court, the crook is going to win.

    If justice prevails, JM will be doing jail time. Start thinking criminal court, not just civil court. Press charges with the local police/sheriff. Complain to City Hall or the State--get his business license revoked. (He does HAVE a business license...right?) Call the IRS and ask them if he's paying income tax on the money he charged you, and which you have receipts for. You work this right, he'll BEG to finish that engine.
     
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  14. staged70

    staged70 RIP

    While I see everyones point here I want to say I went to a shop that charged me 85.00 per hour and I bought my own parts from TA (and another cam from Comp Cams) and I got my engine fully rebuilt and assembled for around 3K . I wish when someone says I'll do it for $$ then keep communicatinons open. If the job is going to be more then call the guy and tell them whats happening. John has a reputation for building reliable race engines that make gobs of power so he has a nice nitch that needs to be filled in his area. A customer is just that so when you give a price and time frame make sure you can deliver. I really hate to see this with long time board members. Good luck to Dave and John and I hope this gets worked out.
     
  15. Jim Rodgers

    Jim Rodgers Well-Known Member

    I dont think "favors" cost $3,500.
     
  16. copperheadgs1

    copperheadgs1 copperheadgs1

    Thanks for all the responses even you Doug. As far as I know John's Mother is still alive and I was taking care of my Mother who died during this process. I know full well what an engine costs and I know what John spent and what is missing. I have had several built and the costs here were right in line. When I heard of John's problems I offered to let him out of the deal and he said he would still do it. If he had asked for more money we could have talked about it but I saw no results from what I gave him. I did offer him anything more I would owe him on completion as well as a $500 bonus. Fact is my block sat unclaimed for along time. I work hard as well and do not take jobs in I cannot complete. I did not know John before and I assure you he was not building this engine for a favor but planned on making money. Next time you feel like sending someone $2500 and do not get anything back do not bother calling as they might thing you are a pain in the A$$. Which I guess I am.

    ---------- Post added at 12:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 AM ----------

    Schurkey, The IRS is a very good thought. I know and IRS agent.
     
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  17. dl7265

    dl7265 No car then Mopar

    Sorry to hear, Sounds very fortunate that you were able to locate and get your motor back. Even though you're out $.
    My Stock st1 build was double that. $2500 alone in new TA parts.

    However Doug , If he did not want to do it for the price he quoted Dave then why take the job ? If he does not know what it cost ( bearing any big suprises of course) in the wrong business.

    best of luck on the resolution.

    DL
     
  18. copperheadgs1

    copperheadgs1 copperheadgs1

    Thanks DL. Luckily I had some stuff and heads were pretty much done so it should have been an easy deal.
     
    not fast enough likes this.
  19. buicksstage1

    buicksstage1 Well-Known Member

    Doug, there are several people that I know here on the board that he screwed over aswell. I carried him on a set of new bare stage4 heads, 8 used crower rods one had spun a bearing and 9 JE used pistons. A bunch of my stuff is still packed from the move so I'm having to go by memory from 4 or 5 years ago. I sold him the package for some where around $1200, yes thats right I gave him the parts for next to nothing with NO money down to help get him back out after he lost his engine. I made a deal to carry him for 3 months, and I had Rick Henderson bring the parts to BG but John was to pay Rick $75 for shipping and John turned around and told Rick I was to pay the shipping so in the end he sticks me with Ricks shipping bill to boot. Then he makes me chase him for full payment for the next two years until I finally gave up. I am still out money on the deal and the last I talked to him he said it would take 90 days to put a trace on the lost money order. :Dou:
    Several times through out the deal he kept telling me that he sent the MO. At one point he fed me a line that he was waiting to here back from Crower to see if the one rod that had spun a bearing was any good even though the deal up front was as is. Do the math here, I know for a fact that the almost new pistons were worth $500 once they were cleaned up. The heads were new but bare with no seats other then one intake that I had my head porter install temporary so he could port one intake runner so Johns head guy could see what we were doing porting wise, If I remember correctly it cost me $150 to get the valve job on 1 seat and port work done.
    I know for fact that John screwed a very well respected buick fellow not once but 2 or 3 time for a bunch of cash. Someone else I know didn't get paid for a set of valve covers. The reason none of us have post this before is because everyone was worried about getting crapped on by his group of buddies but also embarrassed for putting are selves in that postion. Doug, I have alot of respect for you and I hope it goes both ways but something had to be said. He is one slick fellow. Chris

    ---------- Post added at 11:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 PM ----------

    [/COLOR]
    Dave, I will not post who the others are but I hope they will chime in. Now I feel bad for not posting this when it happened to me and maybe this would not of happened to you or others :( Chris
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2012
  20. Schurkey

    Schurkey Silver Level contributor

    IF (big IF) he's working out of his home garage, and if you can figure out who his insurance company is, you can show the insurance company your receipts and they'll most likely jack up his insurance premiums.
     

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