New 71 GS grille from the Parts PLace

Discussion in 'Repro Parts' started by fl smith, Jan 12, 2005.

  1. RACEBUICKS

    RACEBUICKS Midwest Buick Mafia

    Hey I have just spent 47 minutes of cell phone time talking to the OWNER of the Parts Place. He and I have discussed this matter and we will be putting MY matter behind us soon. I have bigger issues at hand to deal with. Thank you for your support.
     
  2. Mentalkase

    Mentalkase Desert Coonass

    I think the point everyone is missing is that Mike went to The Parts Place to basically make them a deal to supply these parts.

    TPP turned him down,AND KNOWING Mike was already reproducing these parts,turned around and started reproducing them themselves.

    To me that is extremely unethical.They know Mike has worked hard at reproducing the part,but yet still went ahead and used his hard work and talent to make a buck.The least they can do is give him a percentage of the sales for the work he has done,the time he has spent,and the courtesy to try and help them make money by being a supplier.

    Yeah,we live in a capitalistic society,thank God for that.But nowhere should that become greedy and unethical in the process.The Parts Place could have spoken to Mike about many of his other ideas,or done a survey to see what else this community needs,not rip off a part that someone else has worked so hard to repop.

    TPP, God bless you for the parts that you offer for Buicks,and may you continue to do so.Just be a bit more ethical in the future.The Buick community is VERY passionate and VERY tight knit.To be honest,this is the one community I would never want to piss off.They may be one of the smaller groups,but I challenge you to find and other community as loyal as the Buick community.
     
  3. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Kase, you don't know this to be a fact.

    Sorry to single you out here man, but this is exactly the thing we need to avoid on the board here..

    Read on below..

    JW
     
  4. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    What we have going on here is pretty simple. No need for anyone to be up in arms here.

    This is simply an information and part definition issue.

    To help clear some of this stuff up, I spent some time on the phone today, with the Joe, the owner of The Parts Place, as well as with Mike Garrison.

    But we will get to that.

    First this grill deal..

    Jon, I think it's great that you took the bull by the horns to produce a replica of a 71 GS grill on your own, and certainly wouldn't ever put you down for undertaking the effort. I am certain that an individual such as you will produce a quality part, suitable for a number of applications. But, with your own admissions, you stated that it's not a perfect reproduction, as it's not an injected molded piece, like the factory made. Only an injection mold, with the right material, can reproduce the crisp clean lines of the orginal. And that's a mold that costs many thousands of dollars, so it takes a substantial investment to produce such a piece, which is certainly beyond what most individuals could afford to do. And no one should expect something perfect out of a poured mold. How good it will be, will depend on your skill and tenacity to produce as good a part as your able to.

    I do believe you will produce a part that many guys will be able to use, in a driver or a racecar, and the price will be attractive for that application.

    But there is a whole other segment of the market that wants the "as close as it can be, take out of the box, and put in my show car" type part, and by all accounts, that's what The Parts Place is making. I have not seen them yet, but those of you who will buy that piece from them, will report back to us as to how it fits and looks. And I will be stopping by there on my travels here shortly, to have a look for myself.

    In this instance, I believe there is room in the market for both of these parts, while similar in appearance; I would imagine there will be fairly substantial physical differences between the two pieces, and a different price tag on each.

    It's then up to you guys who are in the market, to determine which one you want to buy, based on the usage requirements, budget, availability, ect.

    Which will be no different than buying a multitude of other parts for our cars, the only difference is that something is finally available.

    And that's the key point here.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    As far as Mikes issue with The Parts Place, that one has a few more twists in it, but the long and the short of it is that there appears to be a couple different vendors making the same part now, and the retail parts houses, can and will buy that part from the vendor who can produce and sell the parts at the most attractive price. I do believe that there was a misunderstanding and lack of communication between Mike and the purchasing agent for The Parts Place, and when that agent caught wind through the grapevine that they could buy that same kit elsewhere, they did so. As a Parts house, thats the way they have to run their business, and no one can really fault them for that. As a consumer, its your choice as to where to buy your parts, but I would certainly stop short of bastardizing a company for operating within the normal business practices of a retail outlet. I have no proof that The Parts Place did not knock off Mikes part, I have the word of the owner, and until I see contradictory evidence, I will take that man on his word. In the end, the truth always comes out, and I am sure it will in this instance.

    If Mikes got an individual out there, knocking off his parts, then thats an issue he has to deal with, by making his parts better, cheaper, easier to install ect. And knowing Mike, I am sure that is what will happen eventually. Thats just the nature of a competitive marketplace, and while the practice of knocking off somebody elses part is unsavory at best, it happens every day in the retail world. I am quite sure a lot of you have purchased knocked off items, and probably never even knew it. Your house is probably full of them.

    That does not make it right; its just the reality of the retail marketplace.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    What really concerns me, is that now that we have folks finally interested in making parts for our cars, that we dont pit them against each other. The marketplace is not capable of supporting particular parts, of equal quality, from more than one vendor. If the parts differ in manufacturing process, material, or overall appearance, then they are not the same part; they are similar parts. That distinction needs to be carefully drawn. We already have instances of the same part being remade, but one is a more correct reproduction of the factory piece. I would consider the two different 71 GS grills as "similar parts", but very different from each other. The final results of both efforts will tell the story in the end.

    As a group of investors, manufacturers, consumers and enthusiasts, it is in all our best interests that if someone wants to invest in a big dollar part, that effort (and the dollars that go with it) are not duplicated somewhere else.

    Being in the business of building GSs, its very much in my best interest to help anyone who is willing to invest the time and effort to make these parts. To that end, I have contacted, and will be contacting, a few of the folks reproducing parts now, to try and make sure that we are not duplicating efforts. That requires a level of trust between those individuals/companies, and myself, and I will be developing those relationships, so that we can all benefit from the reproduction of these much-needed items.

    Lets not rush to judgment here, on any individual or company. Lets work together to iron these difficulties out, and promote the hobby that we all enjoy, and a number of us make a living in.

    While this board is great for spreading correct information, Im afraid the software does not exist to allow it to pick out the correct facts from the incorrect ones. Its up to the users of the board, to keep an open mind, report the facts as they know them, and thus add to the knowledge base we have developed here.
     
  5. Dan Healey

    Dan Healey Well-Known Member

    I recommend the Parts Place...

    Lists their new reproduction items in the vendor section of this board once available. That way the members can go to their site to see it, and order if desired. No way would go to their site (or anyones), just to see if there is a new reproduced item. :Smarty:

    Maybe I'm wrong here, but I doubt there are, on average, less than 5 new repro Buick parts each year. :pp

    If you want to sell and introduce a new Buick item, I think this v8 Buick site is the 1st place to show it. :Smarty:

    Now hurry and finish the rear outer inners, they will surely fly off your shelves. :beer :beer
     
  6. GS-XNR

    GS-XNR Well-Known Member

    Amen Mike! :TU:
    Harvey
     
  7. gsdave

    gsdave FAST WITH CLASS

    It all comes down to the allmighty buck. And what some people will do to take it out of the hands of hard working people like most of us on this board.

    Not too many people really knows how hard Mike works on all his repro parts. He does it for his love of Buicks and to support his race addiction for the need of speed. He is not going to take a early retirement anytime soon because of all the money he is making off this stuff. Most of it goes into developing the next idea. Its easy to say why don't you make this or that, but coming up with a way to do it on a budget and at a price someone can afford makes things alot more difficult.

    Copying someone else's hard works happens all too often. For the person copying Mike's hard work Here is a quote from the Minnesota Vikings Randy Moss" :moonu: "
    If you are a member of this board I think you are a snake in the grass. If you have a problem with that p.m. me and we will discuss it.

    For anyone needing parts that Mike reproduces I hope you choose to support him on his ventures.
     
  8. darrenkp

    darrenkp Love that Torque!

    JW,

    Thanks for posting your comments, I too would hate to see companies give up on reproducing much needed parts because of petty misunderstandings and miscommunication. Many times I have heard people complain that no one will step up and make this or that. We finally have people realizing that there is a market for more parts in the Buick world, and what do we do? We bicker about who thought of it first. It is in our best interests to support and welcome any and all efforts to improve the availability of affordable parts for our cars. :Smarty:
     
  9. GS4551970

    GS4551970 70 Buick GS 455

    This might not be the thing to say but its the way of the world. If we all felt this way about everything we would have but 1 type of auto manufacture. 1 brand of tools . i'm here sitting looking at my computer it a compaq. What do you have. There are so many different brands out there to choose from. Thats just the way it is. If no one else were aloud to make there version we would probably be paying 2 or 3 times as much for everything we buy. There is no doubt that Mike puts alot of time,money and effort into his work. But i have to say i'm also glad to see a company start to make parts for our cars. I just hope Mike and TPP can come to a settlement on this part.
     
  10. Thepartsplace

    Thepartsplace Well-Known Member

    Good News

    Good news :TU: , the new 71 GS grilles are in production and we expect our shipment to be in sometime in the next 30-60 days. The factory hasnt set a firm date on there arrival. Do to the production schedule and the need to go to another factory to get paint and a paint mask made. My boss has yet to set a firm price on the grille. Basically what it comes down to is the more grilles that are needed the more we can run a bring cost down. The closer we get to what the tooling cost the better the price we can offer to you. What we are asking is if you are interested in a grille we would like you to email us with your name. We dont need your money yet, but at least we will have a better idea on the quantity we need. When the grilles come in we will email you with a firm price. Since the grilles are in production we can get them to run more for us and bring the costs down considerably. You can email your interest in the grille to sales@thepartsplaceinc.com.

    Thanks
     
  11. StratoBlue72

    StratoBlue72 Well-Known Member

    I know myself if I need something The Parts Place offers for sale I'll buy it.
    I guess it's just to bad for the people that want to "boycott" them.
     
  12. gsdave

    gsdave FAST WITH CLASS

    So Strato If your gs needs a core support patch panel who are you going to buy it from?
    Mike G, the person who developed them.

    Or support the dirtbag that coppied them and sold them to the parts place.

    I know they have the right to buy from whomever the choose. But its not real hard to figure out the reason this guy can charge less for his parts. He has no development money in his pieces.

    So you say that is just too bad. Well if this kind of practice continues then people like Mike are not going to pursue new pieces because they just can do everything for free.

    And yes I have bought from the the PP before. And would consider them in the future.
     
  13. StratoBlue72

    StratoBlue72 Well-Known Member

    I actually meant to say if they offer something I need that is not already offered by somebody else that I prefer to deal with, I will buy from them.
    Such as items like the injection molded 71 grille, or outer wheel housings , or inner skirts, etc.
     
  14. gsdave

    gsdave FAST WITH CLASS

    Strato If I sounded like a jerk I apoligize. :spank:

    This topic gets me a little fired up. :af:

    They do have a bunch of stuff availibe that other people don't carry. I would just like to see that if someone needs some of these parts in question I hope they just don't see the cheapest part and buy it. All of us know alot of times we get what we pay for. Think of the people who put thier own hard work into thier pieces.

    Whenever I build something I am usually proud of my accomplishment. I wonder if the person copying Mike's work is proud of himself. :Do No:

    I hope whoever you are, you are reading this. :moonu:
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2005
  15. StratoBlue72

    StratoBlue72 Well-Known Member

    Hi Dave,
    No need for an apology, as I should have worded my statement differently in the first place.
    I understand completely where you are coming from.

    Tim
     
  16. staged70

    staged70 RIP

    Tpp

    I have bought parts from Mike and The Parts Place . I have been very happy with the quality with both suppliers . I do feel that we need all the parts we can get . I have 2 GS's that really need a lot of parts . My 70 GS 455 will probably be a GSX clone . My 70 rear taillights came from TPP . This car being a bamboo creme car will be much better looking as a QQ car ! I feel that any lower price I can get on repro parts will only help . My 72 Stage 1 Suncoupe is killing me with the cost of NOS parts . I have now reached the point that I have spent 2 times the purchase price for parts that will barely fill the trunk . I understand market forces but I also know I cannot afford a 100K Kliner resto , so repro parts will unfortunately have to go on both cars .
    Some of you might remember my trials in trying to find and purchase an affordable grille for my 71 GS . I got so down on this whole deal I almost parted a car out that was close to being finished . I did sell the car to a friend for 1600.00 ( less than half of the bodywork cost ) and it is now painted and will be a very nice driver . Also thanks to all that sold me parts for it here .
    Lets use these suppliers ! Buy from whomever you want but buy the parts you need so that more parts will be repoduced for our cars . I want a 71 GS grille myself just in case Dan gets tired of my old car !
    I personally want to thank Mike and everyone else out there doing parts and services for these cars , without them there may not be any Skylarks and GS350s left out there .


    PS How about correct trunk drops , dash pads , hood mouldings , headlight doors (1970)

    Duane , I have not heard from you about the steering wheel and other parts for my GSX clone PM me , I gave my red GS wheel to you at the GS NATS.


    John
     
  17. RACEBUICKS

    RACEBUICKS Midwest Buick Mafia

    needs to be heard

    What I have been thinking about here today so I have to type it now, is that if the person responsible for COPYING my part would have at least went after it and redesigned it, I would NOT have had a bitch at all. That is the bottom line they didnt do anything but copy it. They took an exsisting part and made NO changes to it and remade it. If they would have made it a little better or what ever THAT WOULD HAVE MADE THE DIFFERENCE, of whether I could have been mad or not.

    still bitching
     

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