New Buick 350 SP3 Intake testing

Discussion in 'TA Performance' started by tdacton, Mar 23, 2015.

  1. tdacton

    tdacton Gold Level Contributor

    Gary Herche, Herche Performance Engines has provided the following testing information for this new SP3 intake.

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    Guys, Here are some answers to some of the questions.

    I heard a similar statement as Sean. "TA really hit a home run for us Buick 350 guys!" But went on to say, he can't wait for the head testing opportunity......?????

    To correct my earlier statement, These are NHRA Super Stock motors.
    Here are the Specs for the test-bed engine.
    BORE 3.830
    STROKE 3.863
    9:1 Compression
    1.880 Intake Valve
    1.550 Exhaust Valve
    CAM - Solid Roller
    Custom Herche Grind .650 Lift IN & EX

    Heads are NHRA Super Stock Ported that must use stock valve size, must use stock port volume @155cc

    Yes, there were comparison runs on a Modified Chrysler cast intake, a TA DP and the new TA SP for the 350.
    The TA DP was 15 HP better than the Modified Chrysler
    The TA SP was 25 HP better than the TA DP (with the previously mentioned mismatch) These heads follow NHRA rules for a CC number that cannot be exceeded, so the cross-section of the port remains virtually stock.

    Both a Holley and a Quadrajet were ran. Both worked equally well.

    On the flow bench, testing was done to attempt to improve the flow with some mock-up changes. Nothing we did improved the OOTB performance.

    There were no spacers used for this testing, the plenum is adequate size for this engine application. Some others may need a 4-hole or open spacer depending on your combo.
    Yes, Super Stock does allow use of spacers. In our case, we can't run a spacer cause the hood will not shut.

    When TA gets their new heads, used with a 12.5:1 engine with enough cam, using Q15 VP fuel producing 525hp should be no issue with this TA SP manifold.

    If you have a cam that is .450 lift or less, a .050 duration of .245 or less, the DP is still the better manifold. Any larger than this and the SP3 shows it has benefits.

    If all goes as planned, there will be a Super Stock car running this engine at the NHRA points meet in Mid-April at Montgomery Motorsports Park, Alabama.

    Here is a bit more about Gary:
    He was a Buick guy, long ago! In 1965, he purchased a new GS with a 401 and a 4-speed. Bet he wishes he still had that car.
    He has raced NHRA Stock Eliminator w/455 since 86.
    In NHRA Stock and Super Stock competition, he has 6 Buick 350. Some for ~11+ years. These cars are Previous Record holders and currently are the Quickest and the Fastest 350 Buicks in the NHRA circuit.
    For the last 10+ years, his son has been running a 70 Stage1 street/strip car that he drives up to 100 miles each way to a track and drive it home. He will consistently run 11.50s as a daily drove street/strip car.
    As Mentioned, Gary has developed the NHRA approved rod for the 350 Buick that are the stock weight. They are virtually unbreakable in a naturally aspirated motor.
    Gary has been very important to helping Fred Catlin and getting him back on a healthy track and helping him however he can. Those Buick guys really look out for each other. Great job Gary!!!

    This is an exciting time in the Small Block Community. Gary has multiple build options for a 350 or a 455. I Highly recommend spending some time talking to Gary. PM me for his cell number.
    Troy
     
  2. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut Staff Member

    Thanks for the info!
     
  3. tdacton

    tdacton Gold Level Contributor

    You are welcome Sean!
    I copied our original post over here to the TA vendor section. We didn't want it to get lost in the other section as time goes on.
    Troy
     
  4. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut Staff Member

    Good idea! Now all the info is here without the other chatter...
     
  5. cpk 71

    cpk 71 im just a number

    Awesome stuff going on here!!!
     
  6. sriley531

    sriley531 Buckle up, this could get rough....

    Very cool! Thanks for posting!
     
  7. tdacton

    tdacton Gold Level Contributor

    Since we are running NHRA Super Stock we can't share the entire dyno sheet for each run, but, I will try to give a few details.

    There are a few more things Gary wants you to know about this Super Stock engine used to test.
    This engine is a budget built, if there is such a thing for NHRA Super Stock. We have no Honda wrist pins. There are no .9 mm or less rings (NO 2 ring pistons). No welding or epoxying on the heads.
    This is a good set of heads and cam combo but there is more work that can be done in other areas.

    More about the dyno test:
    The load test RPM was 4900 to 6300
    There was no reason to go lower than 4900 due to the car having a 5200 torque converter.
    Based on the graphing, Torque peak was below the 4900 RPM and estimated to be 455 @ 4500.
    We observed 448 ft-lbs torque at 4900 RPM
    The HP peak was 471 at 6100 RPM

    SP3 bolt on improvements over our previous best manifold option:
    At 5000 RPM we were +14 HP and +14 ft-lbs
    At 5500 RPM we were +14 HP and +14 ft-lbs
    At 6200 RPM we were +22 HP and +19 ft-lbs
    The SP3 HP peak RPM and torque peak RPM were both 300 RPM higher than the DP
    Average HP and torque (Gary said this is important) from 4900 to 6300 there was a +16.4 HP and +15.3 ft-lbs increase.

    Preliminary tests at the track at Atlanta Dragway on March 28.
    Best speed 119+ MPH, an increase of 2+ mph over the best MPH for our Chrysler intake and 3+ MPH better than our DP.
    Best E.T. was 11.17 with RPM in the 6500 range.
    All while needing to have Billy look at the trans in combo with this setup, as it was shifting into second early (while it was still in the air). Looking for 10's with a better trans setup.

    Troy
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2015
    Julian likes this.
  8. tdacton

    tdacton Gold Level Contributor

    Thanks for the picture Owen!
    Troy
     
  9. Mark Demko

    Mark Demko Well-Known Member

    Thanks Troy:TU:
    Reading the first post, I take it its not worth to port match the intake to the heads?
     
  10. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut Staff Member

    Bump to the top
     
  11. MrSony

    MrSony Well-Known Member

    those nhra rods... anywhere to purchase?
     
  12. Julian

    Julian Well-Known Member

    I thought Molnar had approved rods
     
  13. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut Staff Member

    I know I’m way late on this reply but the Herche Rods were for sure approved for NHRA that’s partly why gary had them made. The Herche rods sold out.

    I’m not sure if the Molnar rods are approved or not?
     
    billiegoat likes this.
  14. tdacton

    tdacton Gold Level Contributor

    Attached Files:

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