Hi all.. so another update on my build and a shout for help.... again!! So, nice sunny day today, TA212 got broken in last night, all was good. took it out for a little drive around the village, just up and down the road, all is sweet, no leaks... got back to the workshop, dropped the oil filter and it's all nice and clean in there, perfect! So, ventured out on a 15 mile drive to a local car show, did about 10 miles on highway, cruising at 1900 revs, I had the oil pressure gauge showing steady 38psi - Is this ok? sounds about right? On warm idle I have about 20psi.. that ok too? Now.. on to temperature! this is what's puzzling me. - bear in mind we are having quite a hot weekend (for England standards anyway) around 77F. Background: There's only water in there. there's no thermostat I have twin electric fans, on the side of an ally radiator, the fans pull the air from the outside in The electric fans are always on. When cruising on the highway at 1900 revs the temperature is at a steady 175. I gently took the revs up to 2300 for about a minute, temp went up to 180 and stayed there. while on the highway I alternated between driving at 1900 and 2300. What's happening is, when I come to a stop, and I'm at 180, the temperature will start to creep up....I parked outside the workshop at 180, after a drive, and took a few minutes, like 2 or 3 min, to get to almost 200 and I could see it creeping up, so I switched it off. Water in the radiator has not changed in level. When we were doing the cam break in there was a load, but a load of white smoke coming out the exhausts, but we put it to condensation in them as they been in a cold garage floor since August last year. We haven't had a warm day till today. We did think it could have been a water leak into the exhaust port, but water level didn't go down at all. The white smoke eventually disappeared and never returned. Any ideas what could be causing it to overheat? Before the rebuild I had a temp gauge that very rarely moved and stayed always at 130, only in a very hot day, sat in traffic, I saw it going up to 180 and that's it. Thanks! JP and here's a little video.. the TA212 cam sounds awesome! A 65 Chevy, with a 69 Buick, with a TA212 cam
imo 200 is not a overheating issue in traffic also make sure your timing is set good I like 195'sh myself
Timing is good, we set at 32 advance. vaccum off etc. engine sounds perfect and not out of timing, also shits and moves well (although can't really hammer it down) ohh... 200 not an issue? I thought around 200/210 is the point to start thinking about switching off and let it cool down.... so where should I get really worried? past 210? The thing that gets me is before the rebuild, the temp gauge hardly moved. but saying that, it wasn't even a branded one, so could be bad one, the ones I have now are Autometer, so I think more reliable?
and I believe the 130 reading on your gauge has you spoofed 130 is very low temp besides rebuilds usually run a little bit hotter in the beginning If I hit 220 i would start looking for a shady tree and shut down
Oh I see.. 220! ok.. ok.. But even so, new builds run a bit hotter.... mine doesn't even have a thermostat, the water just keeps going around... I have twin fans always on... still normal to get that high up as I did today? To be honest, once I start driving around it drops back down...but the 200 scared me!
Not running a thermostat is a mistake, as is running water only (corrosion). I had a car in the past overheat due to the water not having sufficient time to heat transfer from running w/o a thermostat. Running a good quality 180F kept that car right where it needed to be. Those are some pretty small fans too, most electric fans will not outflow a properly setup clutch fan...unless you're running something big like a Lincoln MK8 or Taurus fan, the downside is high flow electric fans also need a charging system to support them, with a 100A or larger alternator. This negates the whole idea of ditching a mechanical fan in the first place...increased parasitic drag. Why not run a little antifreeze with your water, toss in a 180F thermostat, and upgrade your fans? I personally prefer 70% distilled water, 30% antifreeze, with a bottle or Redline Water Wetter. Either way, Good luck!
fans always on ? how are they controlled ? also a car without a T-stat the fluid runs /circulates too fast and no time to cool in the radiator also the water pump reacts differently if you dont have the restriction needed and this might be the major problem toss a T-stat in there ...180 or 195
Thank you guys! This has only been the first 30 mile test run, luckily there was a show to go to today The engine never had a thermostat before the rebuild, I only realised that when putting it all back together. I have bought one and I'm going to fit it, but didn't before the break in because I thought without the thermostat the water would just keep circulating and help with cooling. but what you say makes a lot of sense! thermostat stops the water from going in, holds it on the rad, cools it down, thermostat opens and off it goes cold water in... I also only have water in it at the moment because someone on here said was better to run just water for the break in. I will ditch the water, fit the thermostat and put some decent coolant in there. the fans are not controlled, they just come on as soon as ignition is on. my plan is to add one of those regulated thermostat things (can't remember the name) I will try find a normal fan to bolt on it.... I'm in England so Buick fan will probably be impossible to find, but maybe something out of something else. Maybe had a clutch fan and move the electric fans to the outside of the radiator (and changing their rotation) thanks for the suggestions. I shall try that on Wednesday evening. My friend suggested could be head gasket and is bringing some kind of head gasket tester... but we checked the plugs and they are dry, the oil is nice and clean and there's no smoke out the exhaust and water level doesn't drop. Surely head gasket would mean at least one of these would show?
Yeah, that fan setup looks cheesy. Get a fan setup in there that fully shrouds the radiator so air is pulled through ALL of the radiator, not just the area where the fans are mounted to! Like suggested, get a thermostat in there as well, the 180*F one would be a good choice for that year engine because of the extra compression. Make sure to test the thermostat before you install it, in a small pot of water on the stove with a thermometer heating the water up with the stat in it noting where it opens at to make sure it opens at its rating point before you install it. Now that you have confirmed that you don't have any coolant leaks into the oil it is time to change to your preferred anti-freeze mix on that side of the pond. Just make sure you don't use that Dex-cool crap, stick with the old fashion green polyethylene glycol stuff what those old engines were designed to run back in the day. The recommended mix is 50/50 of water to anti-freeze, they actually sell it that way nowadays, but they charge you more for less if you buy like that!
I'd get those fans off and build a shroud the whole size of the radiator and reinstall the fans so that the fans pull air off the complete radiator.... Something like this... https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/52066/10002/-1
Someone probably mentioned putting straight water in for the cam break in to confirm no leaks not to be driving around with. I run a 180 tstat, 50/50 mix, twin straight blade fans with a controller that turns the first one on at 190, second comes on 10 seconds later. Both fans turn off at 180. Makes it through Australian summers with no issues at all..
The thermostat I bought said was for a 69 GS350, just checked the listing and says rated to 195, will that be alright? - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/THERMOST...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 ok, 50/50 mix.. I'll go to the local auto factors place tomorrow and get some anti-freeze, green colour, got it! Ohhh I like the look of that and dead easy to make, I have a few sheets of stainless still around, can tig weld it together and make a shroud! ah!! you are very right sir! now that you mention it, it came back to me, someone did say water to confirm there was no leaks into the oil as bearings don't like coolant..!
Oil pressure sounds good. 200 isn’t a big deal. But as you can see the difference from driving higher speed and the air flow across radiator vs the slow speed and it creeping up. Meaning the fans are not pulling enough air at slower speeds and may be a problem as outside temperature goes up. A hot day may be a problem.
That was ok back when the car was built when the leaded gas was available, maybe not so much with todays gas? As long as you're running the premium grade with the highest octane rating it might be ok? (can't remember what your static compression mathed out to be in your other thread?)
Over the years Ive had many temp gauges that were not “quite right”. Most of those read warmer than the actual temperature..... Even a 5 or ten degree error can make a guy a bit nervous. I now carry a laser pointed infrared thermometer. Great for taking readings all over the engine, radiator, thermosat housing and cylinder heads.......then compare them to the gauge. Example: My 231 V6 in the Jeepster always gets up to 200 on the expensive Auto Meter electric gauge in the summer. When cross checked under the hood with the infrared unit......cant find anything hotter than 175 or 180. Enough discrepancy to cause anxiety unnecessarily!
Another thing to remember. This new engine probably has MORE HP than the old one you replaced. Higher HP makes MORE HEAT.
Yep, throw a 180-95 stat in there. See what your engine likes. I run a standard stock 80s gm 231 V6 clutch fan and a HD thermal type clutch and no shroud (I really should get one, safety hazard more than anything), and it's dead steady at 195 even on humid 80 degree Iowa days. Traffic? Don't care. 5 hours (round trip) on the highway from Des Moines to Omaha? Don't care. Also, get that water out of there. Drain all of it, (from just the radiator will be fine enough, unless you can reach and remove both of the block drain plugs, on the side near the rear most freeze plugs on either side). Since it's just water you can dump it pretty much anywhere, and fill with 50/50 premix coolant or 70/30 distilled/de-ionized water and coolant, or whatever your preferred mix is. I'm lazy and broke, so I use el cheapo parts store brand 50/50 mix. The coolant raises the boiling temp of whatever water is in there. As does having a properly working radiator cap keeping pressure in the system.
Mine never goes over 190 I run at 2200 rpm on the highway. 180 thermostat with fan shroud and a clutch fan. you can put a front dam below the radiator to help get the air up into the rad.
