[OT] Not very "PC" but allot of good points on war "They Don't Like us...... Is there anyone else out there who's sick and tired of all the polls being taken in foreign countries as to whether or not they" like" us? The last time I looked, the word "like" had nothing to do with foreign policy. I prefer 'respect' or 'fear.' They worked for Rome, which civilized and kept the peace in the known world a hell of a lot longer than our puny two centuries-plus. I see a left-wing German got elected to office recently by campaigning against the foreign policy of the United States. Yeah, that's what I want, to be lectured about war and being a "good neighbor" by a German. Their head honcho said they wouldn't take part in a war against Iraq. Kind of nice to see them taking a pass on a war once in while. Perhaps we needed to have the word "World" in front of War. I think it's time to bring our boys home from Germany. Outside of the money we'd save, we'd make the Germans "like" us a lot more, after they started paying the bills for their own defense. Last time I checked, France isn't too fond of us either. They sort of liked us back on June 6th, 1944, though, didn't they? If you don't think so, see how nicely they take care of the enormous American cemeteries up above the Normandy beaches. For those of you who've studied history, we also have a few cemeteries in places like Belleau Woods and Chateau Thierry also. For those of you who haven't studied it, that was from World War One the first time Europe screwed up, and we bailed out the French. That's where the US Marines got the title 'Devil Dogs' or, if you still care about what the Germans think, Teufelhunde." I hope I spelled that right; sure wouldn't want to offend anyone, least of all a German. Come to think of it, when Europe couldn't take care of their Bosnian problem recently, guess who had to help out there also. Last time I checked, our kids are still there. I sort of remember they said they would be out in a year. Gee, how time flies when you're having fun. Now we hear that the South Koreans aren't too happy with us either. They "liked" us a lot better, of course, in June 1950. It took more than 50,000 Americans killed in Korea to help give them the lifestyle they currently enjoy, but then who's counting? I think it's also time to bring the boys home from there. There are about 37,000 young Americans on the DMZ separating the South Koreans from their "brothers" up north. Maybe if we leave, they can begin to participate in the "good life" that North Korea currently enjoys. Uh huh. Sure. I also understand that a good portion of the Arab/Moslem world now doesn't "like" us either. Did anyone ever sit down and determine what we would have to do to get them to like us? Ask them what they would like us to do. Die? Commit ritual suicide? Bend over? Maybe we should follow the advice of our dimwitted, dullest knife in the drawer, Senator Patty Murray, and build more roads, hospitals, day care centers, and orphanages like Osama bin Laden does. What with all the orphans Osama has created, the least he can do is build some places to put them. Senator Stupid says if we would only "emulate" Osama, the Arab world would love us. Sorry Patty, in addition to the fact that we already do all of those things around the world and have been doing them for over sixty years, I don't take public transportation, and I certainly wouldn't take it with a bomb strapped to the guy next to me. Don't get me wrong: I'm not in favor of going to war. Been there, done that. Several times, in fact. But I think we ought to have some polls in this country about other countries, and see if we "like" THEM. Problem is, if you listed the countries, not only wouldn't the average American know if he liked them or not, he wouldn't be able to find them. If we're supposed to worry about them, how about them worrying about us? We were nice to the North Koreans in 1994, as we followed the policies of Neville Clinton. And it seemed to work; they didn't restart nuclear weapons program for a whole year or so. In the meantime, we fed them when they were starving, and put oil in their stoves when they were freezing. In a recent visit to Norway, I engaged in a really fun debate with my cousin's son, a student at a Norwegian University. I was lectured to by this thankless squirt about the American "Empire,"and scolded about dropping the atomic bomb on the Japanese. I reminded him that empires usually keep the stuff they take; we don't, and back in 1945 most Norwegians thought dropping ANY kind of bomb on Germany or Japan was a good idea. I also reminded him that my uncle, his grandfather, and others in our family spent a significant time in Sachsenhausen concentration camp, courtesy of the Germans, and they didn't all survive. I further reminded him that if it weren't for the "American Empire" he would probably be speaking German or Russian. Sorry about the rambling, but I just took an unofficial poll here at our house, and we don't seem to like anyone. By Joe Galloway, author of "We Were Soldiers."" I would agree too a point. Too many times we stuck our asses on the line for the rest of the world. Even if we are wrong they owe us some respect. -Matt
Hey, I like you guys. I'm Australian. You helped us in WWII when the Japanese wanted a piece of us. What they got was a piece of the US "Leave our Aussie friends alone". Thanks for your help back then. I wasn't even born and I appreciate it. As many of you are aware I recently visited the US and found EVERYONE was terrifically welcoming, helpful, kind and honest. I have that impression of 'real Americans' burned into my brain and will judge people individually as I meet and talk to them. As all people should. When people say that they don't like Americans I say to them "How many have you met? There are 350 million of them. Don't you think your are being just a little prejudicial". Don't worry, you have plenty of friends all around the world who remember the scarifices you made for our security. When you see reports of people marching against the prospect of war and carrying anti-American slogans Remember to count the people who didn't march as they by-far out number those who did. You guys feel threatened and rightly so. Do whetever you need to do to defend you're security. There are more supporters out here than you are being made aware of. Whenever I hear anyone attack the US verbally you can be assured that I step right in (with force) and express my support for our American friends. I've been waiting ages to say that. I am so sick of all the flack that you guys are copping.
I do indeed think that that article was in good taste. If only our government could think and act the same as the opinion that was stated. I am not at all trying to show hatred to those who dont appreciate those but I think it is pointless to fight for foreign nations that dont appreciate it. Maybe Europe would like us more if we let them become overrun. If anything America has been like the loving stern parent to the world. As much as we dont like doing so, we will send our last group of troops, our last dollar or even a morsel of food to show hope for those who canot do it on they're own. Are we so horrible for trying to keep order in the world by persecuting those who cause terror? I wish just for one week we could pull all of our troops out of other every other country and bring them home. then we would watch true chaos and terror reign.
This is the bench but that stands for Off Topic. Most lists will excuse an OT message if posted so in the title. -Matt
Bill, as I've mentioned to you previously, my sister-in-law lives in New Zealand, in Auckland. (I didn't say "Australia" before, did I?...oops!) Anyway, she teaches at a University there, and these days it is more often than not, that she finds some kind of anti-American junk left at her office door, or desk, or her mailbox at home. And she has lived there for over 20 years! Married to a New Zealander(soon to end), raising a daughter, etc... I think it is a fact that there are many that harbor anti-American sentiments there. She has told us that the other women in their "circle of friends" have never really accepted her completely, since she "stole" one of their men...
FEDERAL FRANCE-BASHING STANDARDS & GUIDELINES FEDERAL FRANCE-BASHING STANDARDS & GUIDELINES 1. Effective immediately, Americans are directed to discontinue use of the word "French." For example, henceforth, that overly-sweet, bloody liquid slathered on yellowed iceberg lettuce at Shoney's shall be "Prancing Snail Swallower Dressing;" those greasy sticks of carbohydrates and sodium kept warm for hours under heat lamps at McDonald's shall be "Beret Wearing Pansy Fries" (and shall no longer be available in any size other than "embarrassingly small"); and restaurants throughout the land will begin serving "Unbathed Asshole Onion Soup." 2. Americans shall promptly initiate a boycott of the "French Kiss" replacing it with PATRIOTIC expressions of affection such as the "Texas Uvula Wallop" and the "Dixieland Stinky Finger." 3. Upon sipping from any glass or bottle of inferior French wine in a restaurant, all citizens are hereby directed to spit it onto the floor before braying that the imported beverage was either "too flinty" or "indistinguishable from a rancid slick of year-old poodle menses" before loudly ordering a refreshing 48 oz. Gallo Peach Liebfraumilch slushy as a replacement. 4. All American colleges and universities must immediately dispense with the folly of teaching the pathetic "Soft Philosophies" of Voltaire, Sartre, and Descartes - and begin aggressively indoctrinating our starry-eyed youth to the profound, righteous, and less tediously cerebral works of Hannity, Rumsfeld, Noonan, and The Rock. 5. Moving forward, U.S. journalists and historians alike are to incinerate any liberal textbooks which incorrectly assert that the French saved our ragtag, shoeless asses at Yorktown during America's noble fight for independence from those charmingly irascible and currently endearing limeys (a struggle now rendered ironically moot by Britain's decision to fork over what little sovereignty they didn't give to the European Socialist Union to our State Department). 6. Should they find their personal space violated by an actual French person, whether in New York, Topeka or Paris, Americans should demonstrate their unswerving love of country by informing the Franko Sapiens in question about a recent innovation called "the shower" and then, before the rebuked Frog can make some sour, smelly retort in that bitchy French way of theirs, douse them with a mixture of J-Lo perfume and pepper spray, taking care not to get the lethal mixture on any of the fourteen colors you happen to be wearing. Then, as they're writhing in agony - screaming that incomprehensible jibberish of theirs - tell them that their supposed military genius and 19th century Saddam Hussein progenitor Napoleon could only overcome his crippling impotence (the bane of ALL Frenchmen) by satiating a deviant sexual appetite for basting his prostitute wife Josephine in superior American coffee!
And now for a real reply... I really dont think the polls which show dislike for americans are accurate. The people being polled are probably not directly asked about their feelings for the rank and file of America, more likley they are asked a distorted question regarding American foreign policy. Hey, I know how they feel. I have no quarrel with your average American, hell half my family are Yanks. My problem lies within the policies of GW. I fully support an internationally manned removal of Saddam from power, however its the "open ended" occupation of Iraq that thows up red flags for me. Sure when a regieme that has been in power for 20 years is removed overnight, something has to be done to prevent anarchy and war lords siezing power, but is the US the best candidate to be that force? I'm not doubting the abiltiy for the US to control any unfavourable uprisings, just that there are many countries who have less vested interest in the reigon that would make a better choice as the army of occupation. When you combine control of the oil fields, with the US public support for Isreal, it adds up to a major conflict of interest (real or imagined it dosent matter to would be terrorists). And before anybody says that this would be viewed as the US giving in to terrorism, whats worse being seen as giving in to terrorism or giving terrorists a cause?
Give Peace A Chance Phil: So you don't like GW's Foriegn policy, America's support for Israel, or the chance that we might control the oilfields, but you do like the average American and half your family are yanks! Guess what? I'm an average American, half my family are Rebs, I not only support but like GW, The Good Book says that God will bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse her and I'll take his word for that and if we did control the oilfields you would see better and lower cost production leading to cheaper gas for my Buick! Who do you think has less vested interest? France or Russia with their oil concessions and black market sales to Iraq? How about Mexico or Canada, I'm sure the Mounties and Federallies could keep the warlords in check! Personally I would let Israel have a go at Saddam, they have a pretty good track record fighting the Arabs. I for one am getting tired of all of our "buddies" telling us how much they like us it's just our "government's" policies they disagree with. We happened to be the one's who put them in office to make these decisions and even if we disagree with them we will in the end support our country.When I came home from Viet Nam I was attacked by my fellow countymen and even though I thought they were attacking the wrong target I supported their right to speak out, I don't however, extend those feelings to citizens of other countries. If you don't like us, thats fine you are entitled to your opinion but don't sugarcoat it with I like most Americans! As far as how America does things in this world I say we will stand on our record! Having been in a war it's the last thing I want to see happen,but being a student of history I know that there are worse things than war. As for an international force taking out Saddam who do you think you are kidding? What international force? The one that took care of Bosnia? My hope is that the UN will keep on playing their games and maybe we will smarten up and get out of it! That of course is only my personal thought not official U S policy. Don't mean to go off on you personally you just happened to be the one who I chose to answer! Jake 72 Stage 1
Jake said: "We happened to be the one's who put them in office to make these decisions and even if we disagree with them we will in the end support our country." Who is we? do you really think that the majority of Americans voted for W?????? Accordingly to the official 2000 vote results published in the Federal Register, W lost to Gore by over a half million votes. (Yes, I know about the Electoral College, an 18th century device intended to prevent "mob rule") So, while W may be driving the bus, and no one can slow down his drive to war, you can't claim that the majority of Americans put W in office. That's also why other nations can distinguish between our current administration and our citizens in general.
Harry...you're off by a million miles as to your assumptions of The Electoral College ( you state it was implemented to prevent "mob rule"). The Electoral College gives all factions of the country a say in who becomes President... Without it, agricultural States would never be heard, rural States...Ignored, ...if a simple majority ruled the winning vote would always go to the Cities! At any rate, I'm quite please with GW...and don't give a rats ass what Any Foreigners think about our Government..my only thought at this point is Lead, Follow, or Get the Hell out of the Way! That's another thing I like about OUR President...he doesn't go with what's "Popular". He does what's RIGHT. .The Country's internal problem is that Oprah , Phil Donahue, the liberal media, et al have feminized half the male population to think about what's "Nice" and "How the Other might "Feel" "...It ain't gonna feel nice when a terrorist cell unloads some nerve gas in the NY subway... And I don't go for the Extortion statements that if ( more like WHEN...)the US goes into Iraq we'll REALLY piss off al queda... As a side note...in regards to Our taking over the oil fields in Iraq... A) To the Victors Go the Spoils of War (Maybe we're sick of being the Nice Guys...) and finally... C) Could this be the end of the UN...talk about Mob Rule!! I hope we give them 48 hours to clear out after this next resolution is dropped...Enough Already. Steve
Steve, The existence of the Electoral College is what prevents us from being a democracy. Democracies have one-man-one-vote, and we are about 220 years behind the curve. W likes to talk about the virtues of democracy when lecturing other nations, while they laugh because they know that his election was a "loser-takes-all" affair. On Tuesday night, I heard an exclusive interview with our local talk radio host Chris Core, and both Sec. Rumsfeld and Gen. Meyers, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Each was 15 minutes, following the other. To my surprise, Rumsfeld seemed human, said he wanted conflict as only the very last resort. OK with that. Gen Meyers, on the other hand, while being very diplomatic, let slip the real bombshell......He agreed with Chris that we could expect "tens of thousands of casualties". That the American public had to understand that this would not be a low casualty campaign like either Desert Storm or Kossovo. Your avatar is a Marine one....do you really think that seeing tens of thousands of funerals of your comrades is warranted for a Bush-Saddam family feud? Saddam has never been linked to al-Queada (he is a secularist hated by fundamentalists), and has not attacked us or threatened to. If you really have to have a war, Kim Jong-Il has issued an open invitation.
Very un-"PC" but **** the CBC. Have you watch the CBC as of late. I like the comedy shows during the day but lately at every commercial break the CBC runs an anti-American add. **** Canada. Close the boarder and let them starve. See how long they last without our money or people. -Matt
Harry, have a little more faith in the Marines out there in the traffic jam of Navy ships currently in the Persian Gulf...tens of thousands of casualties? Don't think so...I think the General was speaking of iraqi death rate. So be it. Also, good ole' USA models itself as a Representative Republic, not a democracy... But hey, I'm not gonna sit here and try to sway anybody's opinion, it won't happen...just like you won't change mine. All I know is the people I have the most respect for right now is the "Human Shields"!! Now they put there money where their mouth is...if only more would commit like that. Steve
Extremely articulate post Matt, perhaps you would care to enlighten us on how Canada relies solely on the United States to survive. Perhaps you should look into the new tariffs that the US is asking the WTO to place on Canadian wheat exports to the US, but surely that must be a mistake seeing as we can't even feed our own people. Additionally, I am not familiar with the commercials you are referring to, perhaps you could be more specific. A statement such as the one you made, if to be considered as relevant should at least be backed up by a fact or two. Have a nice day..
