It's Dan, Bob, and the tracks show. I am happy for whatever they want. This is still America and you are not forced to attend. As I remember you still pay an entrance fee. If you don't like it, Don't go and keep your mouth shut about what someone else is doing and just don't attend. Bob and Dan go out of there way to have a great safe 2 day event. Go bracket racing at some hillbilly track and go your 11:49 or faster. If people were not so full of pride or trying to be a so called King, there would be more people happy just to attend no matter what there car runs. Remember Pride and Jealousy are what is upsetting people. That turns into why you want to be king and make the rules.
I don't get the bitching - but of course, I have never had a car built to the "edge" of the rules. All I ever wanted was a venue where I could try to get a car to run a number like it could in the 60s. The Pure Stocks to me gives me the opportunity to go back in time; hey, I was born in 1967 so I didn't experience the street or track scene of those times. I love the high pitched squeal of the tires, the sounds through the mufflers, even the roar of the clutch-fans as the cars approach when viewed coming down the track. I love the side-by-side best of 3, I love the comraderie and the friends I've made. On safety - what, you DON'T want a bar at 11.49?!? That is an IHRA rule - and has been! This is an IHRA track! I'll be lucky if my GP hits 13s - but I still have SFI approved: damper, bell housing, flywheel; why? Just in case! Christ, things happen, things break! Dual throttle return spring, shaft hoop, coolant recovery tank. Why would anyone be against these things? I've never felt that safety equipment was limited by the Purestock rules. Why does one build something to go so fast for this type of racing? Guys complain about rule changes; if you had a car that ran a reasonable time for a TOP car IN the 60s (say mid-12s) and no faster than what is the issue? I've seen guys with roller-tipped rockers, I've seen guys with urethane front bushings; I never said anything - I didn't care. I don't understand the desire to "push" the rules. Don't you guys use your cars for purposes other than this event? I drove my GP to work 3 times this week! A local cruise in, a back up to the daily driver? What? If you want your car to run some time that didn't happen back in the day, just because you think the rules allow you to do so - and then the rules change, that is on YOU! Gee, if your car ran a truly "stock" time (not 11s!) then you are covered!
I just want to thank all you P/Stockers for voicing your opinion and views about this great event. And from what I've been reading the last few days there have been some good ones. Keep up the good work.
In response to this post, and a few convos I've had on the phone: The index for M/S is 12.85 in the 1/4, 8.18 in the 1/8...and anything with a bar requires sfi belts/jacket/pants. This is if you're running in class...normal bracket stuff doesn't apply...the goofiness that is the NHRA. -->NHRA rule book<-- [btw, I'm not making a case either way, just putting this up since a couple guys had asked about it]
Disqualified for running too fast? I thought this was a racing event where you try to go as fast as you can to win. Why not allow a roll bar in the cars with the potential to run sub-11.50's? Problem solved. Several cars have eclipsed this number already, some are on the threshold of this performance level now and soon there will probably be more. No one believes these "max-effort" mid 11-second cars are "pure stock" anyhow and PSMCDR rules already allow many non-stock modifications (compression ratio 1 1/2 points over stock, custom domed racing pistons, max-area camshaft and the aforementioned X-pipe exhaust system) so a roll bar shouldn't detract that much from the car's so-called "stock" appearance. Just my opinion, not knocking anyone one way or the other.
In which case you have F.A.S.T.? o No: Am I the only one that seems to be baffled that pure stock is almost a mirror image of F.A.S.T. when it's all said and done? Especially when you're talking roll bars. If the two races merged the competition would be intense. Just thinking out loud and my opinion means nothing probably but just saying..
How many point roll bar is required to meet the Nhrra rule book and can you use a swing out bar for the door if that bar is required
I would say that a 5pt will be enough. (stock firewall and wheeltubs) A swing out would be legal. (10.00 - 11.49) I don't have a rule book in front of me, but I am sure that is what the tech inspector said was the minimum when I went 10.70's in my old Z28.
I'm on the outside looking in but it seems if the cars were truly Pure stock then this thread wouldn't exist.
From the link to the online NHRA rule book I placed in my last post: 4:10 ROLL BAR All roll bars must be within 6 inches of the rear, or side, of the drivers head, extend in height at least 3 inches above the drivers helmet with driver in normal driving position or be within 1 inch of the roof/headliner in the area above the driver's helmet, and be at least as wide as the driver's shoulders or within 1 inch of the driver's door. Roll bar must be adequately supported or crossbraced to prevent forward or lateral collapse. Rear braces must be of the same diameter and wall thickness as the roll bar and intersect with the roll bar at a point not more than 5 inches from the top of the roll bar. Crossbar and rear braces must be welded to main hoop. Sidebar must be included on drivers side and must pass the driver at a point midway between the shoulder and elbow. Swing-out sidebar permitted. All roll bars must have in their construction a cross bar for seat bracing and as the shoulder harness attachment point; cross bar must be installed no more than 4 inches below, and not above, the drivers shoulders or to side bar. All vehicles with OEM frame must have roll bar welded or bolted to frame; installation of frame connectors on unibody cars does not constitute a frame; therefore it is not necessary to have the roll bar attached to the frame. Unibody cars with stock floor and firewall (wheeltubs permitted) may attach roll bar with 6-inch x 6-inch x .125-inch steel plates on top and bottom of floor bolted together with at least four 3/8-inch bolts and nuts, or weld main hoop to rocker sill area with .125-inch reinforcing plates, with plates welded completely. All 4130 chromoly tube welding must be done by approved TIG heliarc process; mild steel welding must be done by approved MIG wire feed or approved TIG heliarc process. Welding must be free of slag and porosity. Any grinding of welds prohibited. See illustration. Roll bar must be padded anywhere drivers helmet may contact it while in driving position. Adequate padding must have minimum 1/4-inch compression or meet SFI Spec 45.1. All cars running 9.99 (*6.39) or quicker, SFI Spec 45.1 mandatory. Of course, if the rules are tightened up (turned back?) and thusly enforced, then the bars might not be needed. With that said, though, until the new production cars really started ramping up the HP, the NHRA/IHRA's roll bar number was 11.99...the new cars changed (both in safety and performance), our cars stayed the same yet the number dropped...just food for thought.
Since we're all being so responsible now, shouldn't we reopen the "headers and line-lock for safety" discussion as well? Everyone re-read GranSportSedan's post about 7 or 8 times... then read it again. If the cars are too fast, then just maybe the rules are too loose.
Well said Mr. Gran Sport Sedan & RDL. And maybe it will take people from the out side looking in to try and help get this event back to its original idea. The rules have gotten way too loose over the years. And the cars are way too fast. I think personally the organizers are going to have to bite the bullet and just start all over again with the rules of this event. So how many of you P/Stockers are willing to change your cars to any new rule changes? I mean whats wrong with slowing your car down a bit to save the event? The sport of drag racing is heads up and see who crosses the finish line first. And it doesnt take a 11.49 P/Stocker to accomplish that goal. I have observed those at the front of the staging lanes having just as much fun as those at the back. And just like others posted before if your car leans toward a stock vehicle none of the rule changes would affect you anyway.
Gosh, while you guys bicker, I'll be enjoying some of Benoit's home cookin' and announcing from the tower. Who wants to join me?
People "on the outside looking in" dont participate. Participants are what keeps the event going. The opinions of internet lurkers should not be important or relevent.They will always say everybody is cheating! In the current times that we live in,i think we have already maxxed out as far as competiters,and i would be surprized if we have a car count as high as last year. It just seems that the interest is fading somewhat,and maybe things should change.Do we really want the race to dwindle down to about 75 cars? Most of the guys with the "purpose built" cars,are very dependable as far as supporting the race,and come rain or shine. The other people may come,or they may go to cruise in instead. As thier car is not built for the race ,they dont put too much into it. I personally like the faster cars, and would enjoy watching them. I have always said this race should just have a class for FAST cars,and then the stockers will straighten them selves out. My .02!
It would be easy to say don't look to the non participants as john said! The reality is, they do more than you think. They pay for quite a few things that make this thing possible! Secondly, they bring some reality to what this event is all about. They are not bought and paid for. Most are us, without cars! That is right US without cars! They are not the young guys, they are the guys that were there back in th day driving Woodword and the streets when these cars were born! Loose your fan base and the race is dead! You might as well get a rice rocket and go racing! Should the event have FAST cars? That could be a debate I would welcome! It is better than a FAST light class, roaming the hallways! Time to get back to "American Grafitti". Jim
The people in the stands get more than thier moneys worth! When my 67 GTO went 13.7,s at Supercar Showdown in 1988 or 89,people said i was cheating then. It will never stop!
I think Dave is right-shift at lower RPM. And/or have a bar if quicker than 11:50. This race is a great event that needs to continue. I for one look forward to attending each year as there is nothing else like it. Nothing beats watching them in their natural habitat run as opposed to looking at them at the local car show as they are being wiped with a diaper for the sixth time. Now if I can finally have a stock vehicle again so I can run (On my bucket list.) Rise above it Bob and Dan-keep this great event going. Todd
One of our fellow racers told me, how do you get the Jeannie back in the bottle? You get a second bottle! All this talk is only about less than 5 cars. I see nothing wrong with having 2 different classes, call the current rules factory stock and then create a pure stock class that allows only cars that are raced as they were delivered from the dealer. I think the magic number of cars for the race is 150, how we get there does not matter.
Back in 2003 we had been participating five years and we began to sense some were thinking we were not stock so in 2004 I went for the voluntary certification. After being certified the car went a tenth quicker than it ever had before, probably due to better weather. Then when I built the clone R 3 I had it certified as I figured (hoped) it would be quite a bit quicker and might create some questions. As far as having to run against a car that is not legal, that doesn't bother me as we both had to have close to the same times so it should be a good race and isn't that what we go for, to race and have fun? Certainly isn't for the money or trophy.
