I'll have to check all those things. I did, before putting the intake on, check that I could spin all the lifters and none were stuck... when this lifter is at the bottom, i can move the rocker up and down, and it's definitely here that the noise is coming from. It doesn't have anything to do with not letting it run for long is it?
Nope. All that assembly lube might not be letting the lifter get pumped up. I would pull the intake off, pull the rocker shaft off, and look at that lifter. Maybe submerge it in oil and pump it a few times to see if it's working correctly.
If you can move the one pushrod "up and down" how much are you talking? You shouldn't be able to move it up and down at all with the proper preload. Is that the hollow oddball pushrod in the mix that is giving you the problems? When you move the pushrod up and down, can you feel any resistance at all? if so you may have a lifter that isn't pumped up yet?(fingers crossed for this possibility) If you can move it without feeling any resistance, an all air feeling then Something else is going on. Maybe the pushrod is shorter than the others?(compare to another one) The lifter could be shorter than the others?(would suck to have to take the intake off unless you know you can buy a new valley pan at your local parts store, so maybe see if you can get a longer pushrod locally if that's the case before removing intake?) GL
I will try that today, I rotated the crank till I got the pushrod to the top and then tried to push down on the rocker and wasn't going Get new lifters?? they are all brand new, were run for 30 secs.... nah, there's no odd ones in the mix. Everything is brand new on this section, cam, fifters, pushrods and valve springs The lifters are the hydraulic ones as solid lifters are not made anymore (the ones with no hole at the top) The pushrods are all solid pushrods, not hollow. Stock length. (I asked TA what lifters would work with the cam I bought off them, and the guy said stock would work well) The movement I can do up and down is substancial, maybe around 1/16? When lifter is at the bottom. Cannot feel any resistance, it's just sloppy in there - like moving up and down. What you mean proper perload? there's no adjustment at all anywhere, just says to do the rockershaft to 25ftlbs. Which I find very strange as every bike engine I have worked on there's a way of adjusting, either by adjustable pushrods or shims under the cups on the valve tips. I believe the pushrods to be all the same size as they were all in the same package. I'm not sure what to do... if to start it again and see if it pumps up... or start taking it all apart. Can't get any gaskets or anything here, I would have to buy it from over there.... But it does sound like something wrong with that lifter doesn't it? sounds more and more like I have to take the intake out and look inside. Can't I use the same valley pan? clean it up from all the sealant and put it back? I'm working through my lunch hour again today so I can leave work early at 4pm and go work on it. Not sure how much more I can take of all these long nights.
JP did you purchase the TA Stage 1 springs? Are the inner springs installed? I read somewhere where you might have to run in engine with inner spring removed then reinstall after engine has been run in. Things will work out. These guys will get you thru it.
Yes, that's the ones I purchased. What you say is written on the paper that came with them, I removed the inner springs. I'm not going to install the inner springs either as to do so it involves machining the guides, and as my cam is not so much of a wild one I can run it without the inner springs, even after break in.
Just another thing I remembered, I think, but not 100% sure, that before, when I had the rocker noise that led me to take all the engine apart, it was coming from this same rocker. but I can't be sure. it was definitely coming from this same side of the engine, which by the way it's Cylinder #5, not 4, exhausts valve. Now... would be too much coincidence to be the same as before?? or maybe i'm being paranoid and it's not the same rocker. but it's definitely on the same side. Rocker shafts are clean inside, spotless. the hole were blown through to make sure oil passages were free to the pushrod tips.... How does the oil get to the lifter? to the little side hole? Its through that oil way that runs from the front to the back right? the one that has the little screw caps at the back and press fits on the front isn't it? Now I'm doubting myself if I cleaned that well enough or if there's some dirt that might have blocked the hole to that lifter? I could take the intake out, remove pushrods, spin the oil pump with the drill and see if there's oil coming out the hole on the top of the lifter? that will tell me if there's oil getting to the lifter right? if there is, then the problem will be on the lifter itself? am i thinking this right? I think probably today after work I'll go through the following procedure, unless you guys think otherwise? first try and pump the hydraulic lifter by pushing the pushrod onto it with the rocker arm. then remove rocker shaft and take couple of pushrods out and measure them, make sure they are all the same. then take intake out and get to the lifter...
You had a lot of white lube around lifters. I doubt if you could have noticed any lifters allowing more oil to escape than others. Also remember the oil still has farther to go So too much leakdown here will mean less oil at top. The lifter when filled with oil stays "pumped up". This one has issues. If you look at lifter body take a pic to show any imperfections in body. Or spin the pump and see this lifter collapse when drill stops. If lifter is removed you can put your pinkie inside lifter bore to check for gouges. And when establiching pressure visually determine oil running over top of rocker to lube tip.
OK will do. One thing I noticed yesterday when I took the rocker valve cover off was that the pushrods didn't seem to have any oil on them, they were dry, that kind of makes me think there was no oil at the top tip. but when I spun the oil pump with the drill I could see there was oil at the rocker shaft as it was coming out up there. also the pushrods are solid so maybe they are flat on the rocker arm hole and therefore not letting the oil come out.. When I assembled the rocker shafts I made sure the holes in them were facing the correct way to the holes on the rocker arms.... but now I'm doubting everything I done. it was only running 20 seconds, so maybe not long enough for all the oil to get properly everywhere....
first try and pump the hydraulic lifter by pushing the pushrod onto it with the rocker arm. then remove rocker shaft and take couple of pushrodsout and measure them, make sure they are all the same. then take intake out and get to the lifter... You might want to just remove that side rocker shaft assembly, 4 bolts, you will have better access to that pushrod and hopefully get lifter unstuck. Sounds like it is bottomed out. If it frees up, you can avoid pulling intake off. Good luck.
You can reuse the metal valley pan gasket, you just have to clean and re seal it. While it isn’t that unusual to have some lifter noise upon start up there shouldn’t be that much up and down movement of the push rod. You may have one bum lifter. I would be safe and take it apart and check that one lifter out. There is no lash or preload adjustment on the stock valve train which is why I suggested the adjustable push rods.
This is the pic of rockers and car is running I wanted to show the hold down clamp alongside rocker arm.But you can't see anything.Where the rockerarm rests alongside clamp is the same as two connecting rods Just enough clearance for oil to come through.But if these areas are worn out and gouged the oil will escape and oil will not be sufficient (pressure) for tip of valve to receive oil. This is where you have to look when you prime the Buick engine.Realize you are working with worn shafts but you have to. Have enough pressure to push oil to this the outer extreme
Ah!! yes, I know exactly what you mean there! When I primed it with the drill (before putting intake on) I waited till there was oil coming out there at the top, took a while but eventually it did came out... but as you say maybe it's worn and not getting to the tips. In a way I hope the problem is just a bad lifter... but in a way it's also a pain as I have just checked TA website and they don't sell just one single lifter....only the whole kit! and their part number is 1406.... probably can get a single one from summit, but haven't looked at it yet. Another 30min and I'm heading home and then to the workshop. Larry, I did look at the adjustable at the time, but they were big bucks! also, if its a bad lifter, adjustables wouldn't save me here would they? because if the lifter is bad, I couldnt' just extend the pushrod to make up for the slack, or I would run the risk of suddenly the lifter start working and then having a pushrod way too long. that right? Plan of action is: Rotate crank again and check if overnight the lifter come unstuck and now there's no play on the pushrod If there's play, take rocker shaft out Try use the pushrod to pump that lifter and see if it comes unstuck. Take all pushrods out and measure them see if they are all the same. if none of the above offers a solution: Take the intake out. Use drill to spin oil pump and visually check if there's oil coming out the top hole on the lifter - this proves there's no blockage on engine oil way If there's no oil coming out - remove lifter Use drill to spin oil pump and visually check if there's oil coming out the hole on the casting - this will prove if the casting oil way to the lifter is blocked or not. if it's blocked....found the problem, blow some air in it and try unblock it. If there's oil flowing - check lifter see if there's a blockage on the lifter, blow air in one of the holes..... what other checks can I do to see if its bad or not? see if when I push it down, if it doesn't come back up? hopefully with one of these tests I'll be able to find the problem. does my methodology sound about right? Also, as an end note, I still have all the old lifters I pulled out. they are not badly worn. Would it be alright to fit a lifter there and rotate the crank by hand to see if the slop goes away? I would not, repeat, not put an old lifter in and close the engine up. I understand the new cam needs to bed in to new lifters, an old lifter could wipe the cam out. Or maybe take a lifter out of one of the other valves, place in the one that is giving problems and rotate crank by hand? thanks JP
No, adjustable push rods would not save you, just wanted to say that the stock Buick valve train is not adjustable.
The only thing I can think of is either a collapsed lifter or a bent push rod. The lifter has a plunger spring inside. If that spring broke, that could account for it collapsing. You should be able to see that easily.
Thanks for that. I'm at the workshop now. Just done a little video and uploaded to YouTube here's the link Hope that works.. I'm on my phone so difficult to type and see stuff in this little screen. I'm going to start investigation in about 10min. Just eating something and then I'm on it. Thanks you all.
Just a thought, the last 2 sets of new lifters I have installed, one set in a 455 and one set this past weekend in a 350, I had to take apart and clean the lifters. It looked like the coolant they used while machining them dried up in them and would not allow them to work. The 455 set, 70 and up style, all of them had to come apart because the check ball was sticking. The 350 lifters, 68-69 style, this weekend only 3 of them needed taken apart and cleaned. Hopefully its just something simple like that. My son and I are doing similar build to yours right now for his '79 Regal, his first car. Ken
The spring inside lifter should keep that free play out that your seeing. It seems stuck down. Pumping up should not have anything to do with the initial preload and all pushrods being "loaded". Inner spring needs to be helping components stay expanded on assembly, otherwise, how would you determine your preload?
