Rebuild the 350, at last!!!

Discussion in 'Small Block Tech' started by [JP], Feb 12, 2018.

  1. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    Hahaha, I'll get the manual printed at work on Monday, thanks for the link!

    Just done some work on one of the bikes this morning in my garage, waiting for the weather to warm up a bit, and it's now 10.30am... heading down to the workshop now to get the hone done, photos later... wish me luck!!
     
  2. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    right... what a fun experience!!
    took a bit to get to grips with getting a good cross hatching, but I think I have done a half decent job, it's definitely better than what it was....

    Got the hone done, then cleaned it all up with brake cleaner, a ton of blue roll till there was no dirt on the paper, then a light film of oil as it will probably be a couple of weeks till I get to work on the engine again.
    then wrapped it all up in cling film to keep it dirt free.

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  3. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    Fun stuff, looking good.
    Being that this is someone else's failure you took on ... one thing you might want to double check is how close to that nasty chatter at the top of the cylinder the rings will travel. Also it looks like some leftover ridge that the ridge reamer didn't clean up. Look over the rings that came out of the engine and understand that any catching that lip could be damaged or cause the pistons damage as well.
    Seeing as how the ridge itself would have been created by the rings, it stands to reason that there might be travel right to that area.
     
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  4. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    Something I have been noticing with these sbb 350 I have been messing around with is the ridge at the top of the cylinder is mostly a carbon ridge that will clean off with some scotch-brite and solvent, not so much a raised area from the rings shaving the top of the cylinder like other brand engines I have seen.
     
    [JP] likes this.
  5. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    yes, it is not ridge, if I pass my nail on it I can't feel any ridge at all.

    I can't check the old rings as they gone in the trash, but from what I remember when taking them off they seemed ok, no apparent damage
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
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  6. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    I have taken apart about 10 Buick 350s and I have yet to see an engine with a ridge... Many times they can be rebuilt with just a light hone and be in spec.

    sBC engines I have seen many with worn cylinders and ridges at the top.
     
    Skippy597 likes this.
  7. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    Well.. happy days today!!!
    Pulled my finger out and tackled the last sh!t job I had left to do.... get 3 broken studs out the timing cover, 1 was already broken and I snapped 2 when taking it apart, but not bad that in the whole engine, and exhaust headers, these were only the 2 that snapped.
    Tried it a few ago and it was giving a fight, but today I was determined and managed to drill, run the 1/4 tap and it's all good!

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  8. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    Nice work!
     
  9. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    Yes, yes...Buicks aren't the only ones that also go 200k miles plus with barely a ridge because of better iron too, and modern engines with lower ring tension and less fuel washing issues last better than old chevy's...
    Being that the hone didn't clean up all of the cylinder, and that there's a definite line below the chatter marks from the ridge reamer, I thought I'd just draw attention to it having some remembrance of cylinder issues and oil consumption(?)
    I bet the hone tends to torque the hand driller into pulling away from part of the cylinder.
    The dark within the chatter's low spots isn't ridge either.

    Once again,
    Double check that the ridge reamer's destruction is not past the ring travel or see that it's cleaned it up.
    The line near the bottom of the chatter could also be from the roller guide on the tool.
    Either would be destructive to the ring.
     
  10. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    I don't understand what you are saying...
    if it's to do with the different colour at the start of the bore and the end of the bore, then there's no ridge there, just a different colour.
    I'm guessing this is the areas where the piston doesn't go into.
    I ran the tool up and down the bore, hitting those 2 areas, so effectively the whole length of the cylinder and didn't feel any different on forces on the drill.
     
  11. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    Forgive me for looking at a picture from many thousands of miles away...
    (inhales deeply........... :D )
    You wouldn't feel anything from the tool as it passes over low spots, areas of non clean up, even errant pet hair or miscellaneous grit if it were in the bore.
    On a used factory cylinder bore beneath the carbon is supposed to be fresh unmolested crosshatch.
    The cool thing about clicking on the pic is that it gets huge and I can see distinct areas of the bore...
    The portion towards the ground that has perfect cleanup due to the gravity of your honing arrangement...
    The portion 90* from that which shows either tool chatter of sorts or carbon, which is what's being debated...
    And the transition area between the two.

    You can see a line below the carbon/chatter corresponding with where the ring ends it's travel.
    Whether you can feel it or not the ring won't be happy passing over that.
    I'll assume that the ring is what's created that and that it will continue riding over that spot unless proven otherwise.
    Therefore...you could carefully measure to see if the ring even goes up that high (same piston being used?? can't remember), or
    keep honing until you get clean up around the entire bore as it's better to be a tad bit looser than drag a ring across a slight step.
    It's tough for me to tell if the angled scratch gets through cleanly at the top of a bore or if there's low spots, hence the thought of a ridge reamer being used.
    Whether it's chatter or carbon, it looks like the hone will get past it.

    Hopefully that helps :D
     
  12. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    ok right! I think I got it now!
    you are talking about that darker area right at the top of the bore right?
    I thought wouldn't be a problem as that's probably where the ring stops it's travel, so once all put together it wouldn't get there, or would stop exactly there? yes it's the same piston being used, just new rings.

    I didn't want to hone too much as I thought it would damage it or too much of a hone would be a bad thing, but if I can keep going over it then I can do a bit more this weekend? I can still work on it this weekend, just not assembly yet as my friend who will be helping me is going on holidays on Friday for a week, so I could use this weekend to hone a bit more. shame as it's all so clean, but rather do it properly and use another ton of blue roll and brake cleaner but do it right.

    I was trying not to get the tool out of the bore, but maybe I have to let it out a bit so it gets on that darker area properly?

    thanks!
     
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  13. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    You should be "overstroking" the cylinder a little bit anyways.
    You can see the effect of gravity to where most of material is being removed.
    That is part of the cylinder you should be watching closely when you hone, it's usually the most worn.
    If you weren't going to clean that area up then there wouldn't be much reason to use new rings.
    Too much overstroke and it will begin to excessively taper the cylinder.
     
  14. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    ok cool thanks!
    I will hone a bit more, just till I get rid of that brown ring, this weekend, and pull the honing tool out a bit so it goes over that area properly.
    When I done it I stopping just as the top of the tool reached the top of the bore, but pulling it out a bit might just do it.
     
  15. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    While you're redoing it anyway, from the picture the crosshatch angle doesn't look steep enough, it should be on a more vertical angle, 45* would be optimal but plus or minus 10* would be fine. The pic looks more like a 15 to 25 degree angle, I could be wrong though, I am looking at it thousands of miles away so..........?

    The faster the drill spins the faster the hone needs to go up and down to get your correct crosshatch angle.(if you didn't notice, no napping while honing:D)
     
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  16. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    ah yes, it took me a while to get to grips with the honing technique!
    first I was on almost full speed on the drill and going up and down really fast, like I had seen on Youtube videos, but that didnt seem to work and all I was getting was a 0 degree!

    So then I changed to a slower speed but moving up and down slower than before, but still a good pace, and the results were much better. yes it's not 45 degree, so I'll try get it done properly on Saturday.
    I was getting there with the technique but didn't want to overdue it and take too much away. if that is not a concern then I'll do it again on saturday, slower speed on the drill and quicker on the up and down than my last attempt should make the cross go from the 25 to 45
     
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  17. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    Got out of work earlier today so started on the heads, took all the valves out, all are straight, and no damage or scoring on the stem but exhaust valves seem damaged on the end? how bad is this?
    can I still use them? bear in mind that I can't get these things over here, they have to come from the US, so if these are still usable I'll just stick them back in.

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    and how can I clean this up a bit? Can a get a wire wheel in the ports and gently loose all the carbon?

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    thank you!
    JP
     
  18. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    The best way to clean those would be to either have them hot tanked or cooked and bead blasted.

    Even though you can't get parts over there, don't you have any machine shops that do the above kind of work? Ask them if they can clean and regrind the valves for you as well, that should make them fine to use. Just make sure to tell them the valve angle to the tips need to all be the same.

    It would take you a year of Sundays to clean those by hand!
     
  19. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    Any stems having .001" wear at any point are no good, and shouldn't be reground.
    What's your back up plan if these are not all usable?
    No excuse at this point for seeing some wear on the tips (waves finger lecturey). :D

    You could mix up a hot batch of lye (from pellets) and soak everything for a few days and it will pretty much fall off with a light hand brush.
     
  20. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    thanks for the replies, there won't be machine shops involved though, I'm doing it all, can't be spending any more money on this thing unfortunately.

    the stems are all straight, but is just the ends as per the photo, and only the ones on the exhaust side.... are you guys saying that they are no good because of that bit in the end seem a bit burnt?
    I dont know what i'm talking about, but by the looks of it, seems like the part of the stem that goes up and down the guide is already and it's only the end of it, that is exposed, that looks burnt out? is that no good?
    Also the valve seats look pretty good, there's no pitting or build up of anything, so the grinding should be pretty straight forward.

    it all looks pretty caked, but it's not very solid settled, I can rub it and it starts to clean up to be honest.

    another question, just been going through my parts in the box.
    I ordered the TA 1436 stage 1 valve springs - Now, reading the paper work with it, I need to remove the inner springs (because I don't want to get into machine work)... how the hell do they come out??

    and other question...
    I ordered valve guide seals, as per advice on the other thread, but low looking at them they just look like cups? the ones currently on the end are properly fixed on there, these ones just float? I can't see how they will be staying in place?
    thanks!

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