Sealer, base and clear advice please

Discussion in 'Color is everything!' started by techg8, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    The drawback with the wet DA IMO , is you loose the ability to feel if you pick up grit. If you do it does a number and then you got pig tails to deal with. You can actually hear it scratch , but then the damage is done. More if an issue if your outside or in a shop with 3 other guys working etc. We use it for production work, gives a perfect OE look. If me our whoever goofed up, usually we just nib the few spots of dirt and mini buff then out the door it goes.

    If im doing something nice I paint stick and durablock with 800 or 1000 then go to different sponges, then bare hand with the Mirka Abralon pads. It's easy to spend a 40hr week prepping clear for paint.

    There are multiple ways to get to same result and everyone has their methods, and you'll develop your own as well.

    But you've got options Ken, what you've done so far looks great, I know guys that have done this stuff their whole life and your work appears to be much better.
     
  2. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise 1000+HP

    True Ethan, if you have a really dirty paint job, that could be an issue, but your 1000/1500 should take care of the rocks and small children in your clear.. All the 3000 does is remove the 1500 scratch. I found that I had greater control with my palm DA, on the slow speed, than hand sanding, especially around areas prone to going thru the clear. After a couple hours hand sanding, it's hard not to go brain dead..

    And of course, my guys and I paid close attention to the pad, and the work.. rinsing often.

    I was taught the technique by a buddy of mine who is an auto body instructor, and GS guy, and we refined the technique over the years, the last car I did, I spent maybe 10-12 hours total on the sand and Buff. Two medium busy days probably..

    I too would have despised the job if I had to do it all by hand. Once was enough, we had to figure out an easier way, to get the same results.

    I think we did...

    100_1510.jpg
     
  3. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    Thanks for the tips guys.

    I've decided to reshoot the car with clear. And of course address the hood issues. My thinking is perhaps I get the peel to acceptable levels on the respray. And if not then I have more material to work with buffing.

    To that end I have wet sanded the whole car with 800 grit and picked up more clear and reducer.

    20170825_160222.jpg 20170825_160233.jpg

    I've got a spare hood I will use as test panel for the clear b4 I spray the car.

    Looks like a good stretch of weather coming so I will make time and get this done.

    A few questions...

    1) sanding w 800 do I need to get every last pockmark flat? Will they show in the new clear? I dont want to break thru again.
    2) the hood and a fender were done in 1000 and then the 800. As such they have a slightly different "tone" to their appearance. Will this show thru the new clear, i.e. those panels darker than the rest?
    3) I want to wash all the clear sand dust off the car. Plain water? Dishsoap? That stuff is fine and sticks to everything.
    4) how visible is a sand thru under new clear? Does a coat of water approximate the effect?

    Thanks in advance! I'm getting excited about the car again!
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  4. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    1. With the 800 gotta be careful in your situation due to mil thickness, but yes the flatter the better, but no you don't "have to" get it perfectly flat.

    2. Clear is exactly that, if it looks funny now it will with clear on it, spray some dewaxer on it, it will let you see what it's going to look like when cleared

    3. I use dawn detergent on a clean/new micro fiber towel and psi washer, sometimes Ajax, comet if it's real nasty

    You will be amazed how much different the clear will lay, but be cautious on that first coat , give it a bed to bite to, turn the psi up to 25 at the gauge , pattern to full wide and move kinda quick , let it tack good b4 hitting it again. Be sure to put .5 part reducer to loosen it up a little
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
  5. 2001ws6

    2001ws6 last of the v8 interceptors

    Good luck Ken! :)
     
  6. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    I laid new color on the hood 4 coats.

    Then I spent 40 minutes setting up my gun for clear and spraying test panels.

    In the end I mixed 2:1:.5 and the horizontal test panel laid very flat.

    HVLP gun 1.4 tip needed the needle turned in a few turns and air pressure about 20psi to get good atomization and an even spray pattern without blobs.

    3 coats of clear later, The results show less Orange peel. The hood and trunk lid I would call acceptable as is.

    However the sides of the car still show more peel than I will accept.

    Also the clear coat is less perfect. I see lots of little bubbles. And I have a few runs to correct. You're riding the thin edge between a wet coat that flows well and a too heavy coat that will run. Technique really plays a part.

    The peel is less, and the clear coat deeper so I am set up well to do a nice wetsand and buff. The hood color looks great and no different from the rest of the car.

    Pics l8r
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
  7. DasRottweiler

    DasRottweiler -BuickAddict-

    Great, glad it is coming together. I am still plugging away, after work and weekends.
    Weather window is closing and I came down with some cold/flu. I was hoping to spray some color on spoiler, hood scoop, mirrors this long weekend coming. Will see......looking forward to your pics....Jim/Rott
     
  8. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    Feeling frustrated by the time invested. I want to drive n-o-w. Have to walk away for a bit.
     
  9. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    That's the best thing to do, otherwise you will rush things and it will only upset you more in the end
     
  10. DasRottweiler

    DasRottweiler -BuickAddict-

    I feel your pain.....now I'm sick w/ some flu and getting nuttin done....

    Ain't that the truth......always good advice Ethan...Jim
     
  11. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    I am spending my labor day wetsanding. Using a sponge as backing.

    Did the hood w 1500 being careful and conservative. I will start 1500 on all the horizontal surfaces that laid flattest.

    Working my way around the sides with 1000 to knock it down. Then I'll repeat 1500. I've got 5 coats to work with here.

    I used a razor to scrape the runs flat and they are completely disappearing when sanded.

    Let's see how much I get done before I can't move my arms.
     
  12. 2001ws6

    2001ws6 last of the v8 interceptors


    Good luck Ken!
     
  13. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    I got the first pass over the car done today. 1500 on the trunk lid and hood. 1000grit on the sides. just knocking down the high spots, still some material to smooth and flatten.

    Lots of little nibs and flies removed.

    I stayed away from panel edges and peaks, using a finger on the side of the block to guide. Gotta watch those high spots too and go easy there.

    I will 1500 the whole car soon, trying for as flat a surface as I am comfortable with. Don't want to sand thru.

    Using the dewax to check the progress shows a LOT of improvement. It is surprising, however, how small of a surface imperfection will show up in clearcoat that is glossy.

    my arms are shot..
     
  14. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    I've sanded till the water turn red,... With blood ha, after me not doing it daily for the past year since I been teaching, when I do sand my hand cramps up within minutes and my shoulder throbs
     
  15. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    After looking at it again with dewaxer on it, I hit the sides again with 1000 on a tube block. This really smoothed things out.

    Then I went over everything - twice - with 1500 with a sponge for backing. Nice and light, not pressing on it, just smoothing. Lots of water.

    With the dewaxer on it now, its got just a little waviness to it. Not really orangepeel. Not laser straight either but Its a HUGE improvement.

    I will be doing the 2000 grit probably early next week.
     
  16. mrolds69

    mrolds69 "The Cure"

    I'm sure it will look great when you are done Ken. You are trying to get show car paint on your 1st try. You will know where every spot you are not happy with is. But 99 out of 100 people won't notice unless you point them out. Even the best painted cars have defects in the paint, but the painters don't point them out to you. Orange peel? Look at the paint on some of the new cars!
     
  17. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    Well I'm just looking for a nice looking driver is all.

    But you're right. I was talking to a friend about it and he said it looked perfect before. He couldn't understand why I sanded.

    I'm finally seeing results I like. I will keep going and the results will be a nice looking driver.
     
    Mike B in SC likes this.
  18. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    2000 grit wetsand is done. It started to get some shine back.

    Starting another thread on buffing.
     
  19. DasRottweiler

    DasRottweiler -BuickAddict-

    I spent last weekend spraying base on my shell, doors, fenders, hood , trunk lid, hood scoop, spoiler and sport mirrors. Doors look good with three coats of base, as does both fenders, althou I am unhappy with the dogleg on the passenger fender and will be wet sanding it out and respraying it with two more coats. Trunk lid had something on it, I wetsanded it out and will be spraying it two more coats as well. Spoiler, hood scoop and mirrors look great with three coats. Hood looked dry, so I put a fourth coat on it and it looks good except I had the cup screw loose on my gun and had one drop of paint drip onto hood . Again , all painting was done last week. Can I razor blade that drop off and wet sand just the drop itself? Or am I looking at respraying hood again, which I really don't want to do. Advice?...... Jim/Rott
    2017-09-29 17.48.56.jpg 2017-09-29 17.49.25.jpg
     
    techg8 likes this.
  20. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    Jim, you only have 24hrs to apply clear or you'll have no adhesion, it's a chemical bond not mechanical. Unless your planning on sanding the base which will allow the clear to lay super flat. But yes you can blade it flat and then ultra fine it and go being it's white.
     
    techg8 likes this.

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