Thanks Gary, that would be great. I can try to get most of the information to you tomorrow some time. (My wife goes in for surgery tomorrow, so it may be later in the day.)
Build up-date: We now have a "rotating" assembly. Clearanced all the rods today with help from my son this afternoon. Called TA Performance, and spoke to Mike sr. about our cam issue. He said the cam is the biggest grind Schneider makes for the Buick 350. (.365" lift) The duration is what he asked for, but we are short on lift on both intake, and exhaust. What is funny is that with the lift we have, .356" INT, .354" EXH, comes out to .570" INT and .566" EXH with 1.60 ratio on the rockers, but if we use 1.65 ratio rockers, the lift goes up to .587" INT, and .584" EXH. Mike looked everything up, and agreed that swapping the rockers out from 1.60 to 1.65, would be the easiest way to go to correct the spec's. So we are sending back the set of 1.60, for a set of 1.65 ratio rockers. Also...picked the heads up, so we could check piston to valve clearances...and noticed they didn't back cut any of the valves. (Heads are not finished, but the valve seats were all cut in.) We lapped an intake valve, and exhaust valve in at home, and after seeing where the contact is, we are not getting them back cut. (There is not enough room on the valve face to cut it back, as they put the contact area exactly in the middle of the valve face.) And the fact that they said if we wanted to spend the extra money for them to lap in all the valves to see where, and how much to back cut, that's an extra $125/hour. Being that I rebuilt cylinder heads in my younger years in a machine shop, I know exactly how to measure everything up for the springs, seals, coil bind, retainer to guide clearance etc....I will show my son how to do it, and maybe just borrow their spring compressor, and we can assemble them ourselves. Next on the list.....push rod length.....I found our adjustable push rod from TA Performance, but it's about 9.5" long. I thought I read somewhere in this thread, or someone else's, that they needed 9.050" push rods. I don't think we can collapse this push rod that far...even if we removed the locknuts. Options? Thoughts?
I will have a look and see if I have some adjustable pushrods around that mAy work for you . Very cool that you can teach your son about the head specs!
First off. Nice job. I'm really liking this thread. Congratulations on the rotating assembly. As far as the pushrods go. I wouldn't use an adjustable. Figure out the correct length and order them. I've heard too many stories about the jam nuts loosening up.
Yes, Sean is correct. We bought a single adjustable push rod to check the lengths with...but with the roller lifters, they are a lot taller than the standard hydraulic flat tappet lifter. And since the heads have NOT been resurfaced yet...it's gonna be tough to get accurate measurements. (Along with the fact we don't want to use a set of gaskets...we were going to just use valve spring shims to get about 30, or 45 thou as spacers, and check that way. Of course....the correct way would be to wait for the heads to be completed, and actually assemble the engine to the point of having the heads torqued down.
I cut an original pushrod down, tapped 1/4"-28, on both ends, put in threaded rod, or a 1/4-28" bolt with head cut off. Add your jamb nuts and you've got your adjustable to check length! It's easy..... Not home now but somewhere around 1-1/4" section needs to be cut out IIRC.
Ivan, I use old compressed head gaskets for measuring/ mockup. (if you have an old set laying around). Works well too! Make sure your pushrod cup is flush with the underside of rocker body when you are checking for required length.
Thanks guys! We gotta send the 1.60 ratio rockers back to TA Performance, so it's gonna be a couple of weeks before we get the 1.65 rockers back.
Easiest way to check lobe lift on cam is a set of V-blocks and a 1" travel dial indicator. Great way to check runout & straightness. I had the actual .365 lobe height, runout was .0002, straightness for cam length was less than .0005 Not bad for a cam ground one tooth off! Let me think.....1.65 rockers with .365 lobe = .602 valve lift! Might have to swap my 1.6's out.
Send back the adjustable pushrod for credit too. Won't do you any good to keep it. TA should have known it wouldn't work for your build.
I'll keep the adjustable pushrod...may need it for something, someday. (If I sent it back, I'd need it tomorrow.) Shipped the rockers back this morning...with $1000.00 insurance, and a 4-6 day ground delivery, with signature required, it was $78.45 Probably would have been cheaper to ship from Sweet Grass, but it cost money for gas, and your time....so it's pretty much a wash.
Yeah I was wondering why we just didn't get the 1.65 right away...free lift upgrade! For you though, you could buy a bigger cam for less than the $1000.00 price on the rocker set.
I think the .365 lobe lift(what Mart already has) is the highest the sbb 350 roller cam blank can be ground to? So he can have his cam ground on a smaller base circle to make what he has have more lift or change to the 1.65:1 rockers? OR both for even MORE lift! So a regrind would cost less but be a lot more work to swap while the rockers although they would cost more, they would be less work to swap in. Which one(s) to do? Derek
Yes Derek, the .365" was the biggest grind Schneider has as a master core. (Mike's reply) Mike said they got the duration right, (what he asked for) but buggered up on the lift...that's when I punched in 1.65, instead of 1.6, and got the correct lift numbers. Somebody may be dyslexic. .365" or .356"????? Not sure, but we just didn't have time to drive 2 hours down, and 2 hours back, just to ship the rockers back. I knew we would get dry humped shipping from Canada, but, our time is worth something too.
Shipping out of country is a rough deal in either direction, but isn't TA helping with the shipping at all? They are the ones that sent the cam that wasn't right, and you're working with them to make it right, seems like if the cam was right in the first place the rockers wouldn't have to go back? And YES your time IS worth something, I wouldn't want to drive that long to ship something for sure, especially when I was trying to right someone else's wrong. BUT, if you had the stuff shipped 2 hours away in the first place then I can understand if TA doesn't want to ship back from farther than original? Its really between you and TA, I hope both of you come to an agreement that satisfies both sides. GL Anyway my previous post was about Mart's choices if he wants to increase lift, just to be clear. And I was thinking the same thing the first time you posted the lobe lift numbers! "dyslexic" Derek
I always call it 'lysdexic' Any info on the head flow numbers? I could always put something in as a projected or anticipated outcome, but err on the conservative side. Same thing with expected compression ratio. Using the stock stroke and .030 overbore? EDIT: Ha, nevermind--I just got your PM. Nice combination, should be hella strong runner!
Derek: yeah, I get everything I buy in the USA shipped to Sweet Grass, Montana. It's right on the Alberta/Montana border, and is only a 2 hour drive. (One way) I usually wait until I have more than a couple items down there for pickup...just to make it worth our time. I asked TA Performance to ship the new rockers to Sweet Grass, as that is where the original set were shipped to, and is much cheaper. No brokerage fees, and no chance of "stuck at inspection office". Gary: I had everything typed up nice, and I accidentally pushed on the home button, and lost everything....so then I gave the Coles Notes version. Lol Other items I think I forgot to mention, not sure if they're important or not, but: JW torque converter 3:73 gears with Detroit Tru-Trac 295/50/15 rear tires. MSD 6AL-2 ignition and distributor (no vacuum advance though) Duel electric fans (no power lose, except for the alternator, water pump, and ps pump.) We do have a Holley blue pump and regulator, but haven't decided what we are doing with the tank yet. (For fuel sump) Anything else you need for numbers, lemme know.
