SUPER TURBINE SWAP TO DUAL SWITCH PITCH

Discussion in 'The "Juice Box"' started by Rivyera, Jul 30, 2017.

  1. Rivyera

    Rivyera Member

    IN MY '64 RIVIERA I WANT TO INSTALL A '65 DUAL SWITCH PITCH TRANS IN PLACE OF MY '64 SUPER TURBINE 400 AND WAS WONDERING IF, OTHER THAN THE EXTRA POSITON ON THE CONSOLE SHIFTER AND THE MICRO SWITCH ON THE CARB LINKAGE, ARE THERE ANY OTHER DIFFERENCES TO BE AWARE OF WHEN MAKING THIS SWAP?
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
  2. BRUCE ROE

    BRUCE ROE Well-Known Member

    A switch pitch trans will not benefit you unless you add a proper way of
    controlling the stator solenoid switch pitch function. Adding a manual
    control switch will allow you to use it; the maximum benefit will be with
    an automatic controller. Bruce Roe
     
  3. Rivyera

    Rivyera Member

    I changing the '64 trans because it has problems and only need the '65 switch pitch to work as it was designed to; why wouldn't it be a benefit, wasn't it's design to be an improvement over the previous super turbine 400 of '64? thanks for your reply,,,
     
  4. lemmy-67

    lemmy-67 Platinum Level Contributor

    A super-turbine 400 *is* a switch-pitch transmission. It has the variable-pitch converter. The turbo-hydramatic (TH400) does not have the variable-pitch converter. If you are installing a ST400 transmission, all of the linkages should stay the same as before. There were no changes on the ST400 from 63 all the way to 69.

    I have never heard of a: "dual-switch-pitch-trans" before. Do you mean to write that your engine has dual-quads, and somehow you had dual stator switches on the linkages? Your question is not very clear. Can you post any photos of what you are trying to achieve?
     
  5. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    '64 I believe was the first year of the 400 trans, not sure if it was a ST of a TH though. The shift selector for the first year 400 looked like a 2 speed trans IIRC. You had to shift it back and forth to drop it down a gear or something like that? Tom Telesco better remembers how those work, maybe he'll chime in?

    In '65 I know for sure the ST400 came out with a 3 forward gear selector and the switch pitch converter.



    Derek
     
  6. TrunkMonkey

    TrunkMonkey Well-Known Member

    All Buick 300 and 400 series hydromatics are "ST" designation. The "ST" has nothing to do with the Switch Pitch designation.

    A ST 300/400 was either a fixed pitch, or a switch pitch but was always listed as ST, for "Super Turbine".

    The Dynaflow was a multi stage torque converter with several variations over many years and at one point had variable pitch stator.

    But much like the 300 V-8 being called a "Nailhead", The ST300 being called a "Powerglide" and the incorrect meaning of "ST" (Super Turbine) standing for a "switch pitch" transmission, or calling the ST-400 a TH-400 in a Buick remains.

    Not a purist or a snob, only reminding. I notice this more, after being "out of touch with the car scene" for 40 years. :confused:


    So, if you have a fixed pitch ST400 and want to put in a Switch Pitch ST400, locate one, and get the kickdown dashpot, harness and throttle linkage, and you should have a fairly easy swap.

    To "upgrade" an existing fixed pitch transmission to a Switch Pitch transmission woul require the internal components, I think the front pump, maybe the front shaft, a SP torque converter, the electrical switch for the side of the transmission, a few other parts I cannot recall and the aforementioned throttle linkage/switch/harness.

    But, the Switch Pitch is a "fun ride". Sort of like a 4 speed autmomatic, but slippery.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
  7. Rivyera

    Rivyera Member

    Yes the car is a KX code engine (Dual factory Carters) but I was not referring to that. the way I remember things, in the Riviera at least, '63 ended the dynaflow trans or what we called back then the "slush pump"; '64 then had the ST400 (which was not a switch pitch) and '65 the ST400 variable pitch, switch pitch, and sometimes referred to as "dual switch pitch", being the torque converter has vanes that can be set in one of two positions (hence dual switch pitch), via a solenoid. I know you know all this but this is probably where I picked up the dual switch pitch lingo years ago. I do have the linkage micro switch for the firewall side of the carb linkage so other than that I was asking if anything else was needed to go from a '64 ST400 to a '65 ST400 variable pitch trans? Thanks again for your feedback,,,
     
  8. TrunkMonkey

    TrunkMonkey Well-Known Member

    Ahh.... Dual Switch pitch describing the two positions of the stator is redundant, but I understand how such a phrase came about.



    You may need to get the 1965 Riv manuals to show the exact parts you are missing for the 2x4 linkage, dashpot, wire harness.

    And if you cannot source them a switch of various sorts can be brought to the interior and operated as you like, or if you are not purist, you can find a solution of aftermarket to set up a linkage to change pitch on demand from RPM, fuel demand or a number of choices.

    It will be a bit of ingenuity to find a solution you want.

    Let us know how it goes. I always am interested in how folks solve such problems. :cool:
     
  9. lemmy-67

    lemmy-67 Platinum Level Contributor

    Forgive me for adding to the confusion, but I have never heard of a Super-Turbine 400 transmission that was *not* a switch-pitch, nor have I heard of a 63-69 Riviera which did not leave the factory without said transmission installed.

    There are two switches for the stator solenoid: one on the primary throttle linkage of the carburetor, and a second switch on the 90-degree bend of the throttle lever. Both are wired together, and go to the stator solenoid plug on the transmission.
     
  10. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    I don't see any problem with what you want to do.. The 64 400 transmission was a bit of an oddball with a 1 year only valve body. As long as you can find a 65-66 ST400 you should be good to go. It has to have the Nailhead bell housing. Controlling it is another story. Bruce Roe markets an electronic control box for the switch pitch. It uses 3 electronic timers and a vacuum switch. The only other worry is the kick down. The switch near the firewall only put the converter in high stall at idle/closed throttle. The throttle switch controlled the stator change and kick down. That switch may be hard to find. That is why Bruce's control box is an attractive option.

    The stock switch pitch worked like this. At idle/closed throttle, the converter was in high stall. Off idle, low stall. Over 60% throttle, back to high stall. Full throttle and the transmission kicked down.

    The electronic control box lets you control it even better.

    http://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/switch-pitch-wiring.251643/
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
  11. TrunkMonkey

    TrunkMonkey Well-Known Member

    The ST400 with Switch Pitch was only 3 years on production vehicles. '65-66-67.

    The ST stands for Super Turbine. That is the name Buick gave the Turbo-Hydro-Matic 400 series transmission.
    That "ST" designation has nothing to do with the Variable Vane or Switch Pitch model of the ST transmissions.

    So the Riviera did not have Switch Pitch in 63-64 or 68-69.
     
  12. BRUCE ROE

    BRUCE ROE Well-Known Member

    You might detect a slight increase in gas mileage with the switch pitch, because
    the converter slips less in low stall. This will tend to load down the engine at a
    light, and make the car creep. The factory used a switch to put the trans in
    high stall at idle to avoid this, not much of a benefit. If you go to nearly max
    throttle taking off, the factory used a switch to give you more torque at
    launch with high stall, letting the engine get into the power band faster. That
    is a benefit, but 99% percent of your driving DOES NOT involve these situations.
    At high end, all torque converters provide the same 1:1 torque gain.

    If you want to benefit from the additional response and smoothness switch
    pitch can provide ALL THE TIME, you need a better switch pitch control
    than the factory. Bruce Roe
     

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