Tie Rod Ends - AC Delco or Moog?

Discussion in 'The whoa and the sway.' started by knucklebusted, Aug 13, 2018.

  1. knucklebusted

    knucklebusted Well-Known Member

    Got new tires on the 4 speed car, finally getting rid of the 14" G-70 tire, date coded 1978!

    I wanted them to align it but they said the inner, outer and adjuster sleeves needed to be replaced to the tune of $500 installed.

    Moog is about $33 each times 4, AC Delco is $20 each times 4.

    I can't imagine sleeves go bad but it might be easier to buy 2 so I can put them at the same length prior to swapping.
     
  2. Ken Warner

    Ken Warner Stand-up Philosopher

    There are 2 inner tie rods, 2 outer tie rods, and 2 sleeves that then hold the the sets of inner and outer tie rods together. The threads on the tie rods and sleeves are fairly fine and corrosion will degrade them over time, especially if car has been driven in salt and snow at any point. You should be able to swap all the parts with new MOOG in your drive way in about an hour and for less than $200. AutoZone will lend you the fork to separate the ends at the knuckles and center link. A couple wrenches and a BFH and you are in business.
     
    knucklebusted likes this.
  3. knucklebusted

    knucklebusted Well-Known Member

    Yep, done this before a few times. Just trying to figure out if the AC Delco were acceptable since they are a lot cheaper.

    I checked the tie rods last night. They aren't new but the balls in the joint aren't sloppy with plenty of resistance with an easier spot at center. I ordered the Moog already.

    I guess I set the guy on edge when I asked for +5° caster, -1° camber and 1/16 toe in. They started telling me it would require camber arms and different parts.

    I'll just align it myself with string, levels and angle gauge.
     
  4. BrianTrick

    BrianTrick Brian Trick

    One thing I have noticed with the Delco parts is that they offer a cheaper service grade,and a pro grade. There are other companies doing this as well. Just make sure you get the better ones.
     
    knucklebusted likes this.
  5. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Just keep in mind your choosing between the China/Taiwan Grade and the Mexico Grade.. I think all the front end part manufacturing is gone from the US. Maybe some of the new car stuff is hanging on, but most, if not all, of our parts come from overseas now. I always used Mcquay-Norris when I was doing restos, but I learned some time after I stopped that, that moog had bought them out.. they were the last hold out for USA manufactured parts, thru most of the line.

    So now, I tend to gravitate to the less expensive stuff, as moog is simply making money for their name.. the parts in the boxes all pretty much look the same. IN a light to medium duty application, with low mileage driving, you might as well buy the least expensive available. It's not likely you will wear anything out in a hot rod.

    JW
     
    Harlockssx and knucklebusted like this.
  6. woody1640

    woody1640 Well-Known Member

    I have replaced a fair amount of tie rods, ball joints etc. A little trick that a really good mechanic told me years ago and works good is to take a hammer (3-5 lbs or so) and smack the part that the stem goes into 3-6 times. I would say 60-70% of the time I do this they fall right off. And the ones that don't fall off come apart so much easier with the pickle fork. Your not going to damage anything either with the hammer cause all them parts are cast iron.


    Keith
     
    Mike B in SC and knucklebusted like this.
  7. knucklebusted

    knucklebusted Well-Known Member

    Yep, learned that trick long ago and it works on most everything but a steering pitman arm. Used to back the nuts off a few rounds, knock them with a hammer and most times ball joints would self separate from spring pressure.
     
  8. BrianTrick

    BrianTrick Brian Trick

    Yesterday,I was looking at these funny looking gouges they both of my lower A-arms have on one of my cars,then realized it’s a byproduct of wheelstands. The arms are hitting the pockets in the frame when she’s up. Maybe I need to address that. My joints and tie rods are all still good,but most of the boots are split or destroyed,and they aren’t that old. Maybe urethane boots will last longer.
     
  9. Bluzilla

    Bluzilla a.k.a. "THE DOCTOR"

    One more note, .... don't forget that the 1971-1972 tie rod ends and sleeves are a larger diameter (5/8" Moog ES406L, ES406R, ES2004s) than the 1970 and earlier tie rod ends and sleeves (9/16" Moog ES681N, ES333RL, ES2032s).
    I just brought in all the Moog steering components (center link, idler arm and tie rods ends) for my '70 Skylark but chose to go with the beefier 5/8" tie rod set up. But as long as you buy all 6 matching components of either size, you are good to go.

    Larry
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2018
  10. knucklebusted

    knucklebusted Well-Known Member

    All of it is coming from the same place, 2x 406L, 2x 406R and 2x sleeves.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2018
  11. TORQUED455

    TORQUED455 Well-Known Member

    I agree with Jim - the inexpensive brand for barely-used vehicles will be just fine, and you’re overpaying for what used to be a great name in MOOG. I like the cheapo tie rod boots better too - they more closely resemble stock. I don’t know whose making the cheap ones now - there seems to be so many companies getting swallowed up by other companies is hard to keep track of.
     
  12. knucklebusted

    knucklebusted Well-Known Member

    Too late, already ordered Moog. Half of it is here, rest of it shows up tomorrow.
     
  13. Bluzilla

    Bluzilla a.k.a. "THE DOCTOR"

    I took a couple photos today at the shop of a couple Moog parts in the steering components package.

    IMG_4617.JPG IMG_4618.JPG

    Larry
     
  14. knucklebusted

    knucklebusted Well-Known Member

    Yep, all of my stuff was also hecho'd en E.U.A. as well.
     
  15. BrianTrick

    BrianTrick Brian Trick

    I’ve seen some Delco stuff made in Taiwan.
    I can definitely see differences when I have them in my hand. Just try and get the best you can.
     
  16. TORQUED455

    TORQUED455 Well-Known Member

    Probably the box was hectoed in the EUA lol
     
  17. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Yes, Moog does have a couple assembly plants here in the USA yet, but i believe everything is cast overseas. Federal Mogul, who owns Moog, is a global corporation..

    A while back, I saw some online videos with Mike Rowe about a Fed-Mog plant in Alabama ... American Pride or American Made was the series I think... lots of pictures of folks assembling ball joints and control arms.. but none of the foundry process, is what I recall. And you can bet the TV camera would have found the huge blast furnaces..

    I remember thinking after watching it "assembling them here is nice, but I think to be "made in the USA", it has to go from raw material to finished product", inside the border...

    JW
     
  18. BrianTrick

    BrianTrick Brian Trick

    I see companies try and sugar-coat it by saying “designed in USA”
    That ain’t the same.
     
  19. 65Larkin

    65Larkin Well-Known Member

    About two years ago one of my front brake hoses was found to be bulging @ its six monthly safety inspection.
    I figured that if one fifty year old hose needed replacing I'd do the other two while I was at it. I jumped online to rock auto and out of the long list of options I thought I couldn't go wrong buying a.c. Delco.
    Parts arrived in nice a.c. Delco boxes made in the USA. Hoses themselves stamped made in China - at least the box is American
     
  20. knucklebusted

    knucklebusted Well-Known Member

    Compared to the (I assume) originals I removed, since they had the undercoating on them that rest of the car had, the new ones were quite beefy. The heads where the balls sit inside the cup seemed larger than the originals. The shafts were also larger than the threads and were turned down to the size of the adjuster. The old ones were about the same size as the threads all the way down.

    They should hold up for sure. Everything else in the front end looked good and felt tight. The idler arm appeared to be non-original and I'd already replace all ball joints and the upgraded 12.7:1 steering box.

    I bought a couple of 48" levels, cut slots in them for tape measures and that's how I set the toe. I cut the end off a 24" level and drilled holes for stand-off bolts so I could get it parallel to the wheel. My phone does a pretty good job of measuring angles. I think I've +4° caster, -1° camber and 1/16" toe in. That's without buying an additional shims, just what I had in the front end to begin with.

    Now if I could just get the toe set properly. I tried the walmart bag under the tires trick for turn plates. I settled it several times but it measured toed out just slightly by 1/8" after the test drive. I had set it to 1/16" in on initial config. Still need to get the steering wheel recentered but that's minor.
     

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