OK, I bought my first Buick in 1969, and got one every year after that through '72. Kept the '72 for 45 years, found parts, redid it, showed it, had a great time, got divorced and had to sell it. Bought others, redid them, had a great time. Switched to Corvette for some change and fun for a while, and am now in a discussion that I guess proves either I am naive or something. Evidently, in the world of C-2 Corvettes, at least, there are a very "few" what they call "gingerbread" parts that various people at the top of the pile pass around--install on their car--on the day their car is NCRS judged (a HUGE DEAL, evidently). and then return to the owner of the part. I have asked the people to tell me what specific parts they are talking about, and will report when I know. Having been at this since '69 at various levels, I guess I must have missed this with our Buicks. Is this, in fact, something that happens at big "judging" events for our cars? I just can't imagine what the "gingerbread" (NOS, perfect, dated, rare) part that would be on a Buick. Possibly a cotter pin on a GSX brake pad? (I am stretching, of course.) Have I missed something all these years? Don't get me wrong; nothing surprises me much any more, and of course a high judging number is where the million-dollar cars come from, but really?? Gotta love it--I thought it was a hobby. Cheers, Richard
Am friends w/a (now retired)restoration shop owner. He restored a model T for a customer who was going to compete for the Henry Ford award. Apparently a very big deal in the model T world. Owner had fabric interior fabric trim strips hand woven to perfectly replicate the originals....this was the level of detail involved. So when the Model T went went to be judged,the owner rented the (allegedly) only remaining original nos perfect fan belt to use when the Model T was judged.. He got the highest score in x # of years and took home a prize. Happy customer! Me? I'm happy to get a part that works and looks decent. Our disease has room for all manner of folks!
The day I get "discounted" for the wrong cutter pin... I don't give a poop. I will build my car for me. All these Anal "where are the correct marks" people can kiss my everything. I grew up in the late sixties seventies and eighties. Did I give a s''' that I had headers and kicked your A? Nope. F "Perfect" restorations. Perfect restorations are built by people that never ran the streets.
Gotta love it--I thought it was a hobby. Cheers, Richard Best quote Ever Richard. You get it. Nice post. Perfect post. F people's "perfect" Perfect was my car kicking Your As#
Thanks, guys. I have some info from the board. Seems the original Kelsey-Hayes knock-off wheels (mine are repros I found out when I took them off) are among the parts that get exchanged for judging. A set of 5 of these things costs $15,000 IF you can find them, and they are pretty rare and easy to change quickly. AND, believe it or not, ORIGINAL TIRES are part of the deal. REALLY??? 53-year-old TIRES??? When I sold the '72 it still had the original, never down spare, but it was as hard as the steel jack, so for "looks" only, and like all the original rubber parts, clearly not safe to actually use! Also, evidently there is a specific set of these things-- radiator caps, oil caps, BB PCV valves, air cleaner assemblies--that are candidates for this silliness. Evidently, the air filter element and the PCV valves filters were "assembly-line-only" parts that were not available at the parts departments when they wore out. OK, C-2 Corvettes were basically hand-built cars--there is an AMAZING thread over there showing the bodies being "glued" together in jigs--really neat!--and they were obviously very low production cars when compared to other GM lines, so somewhat understandable, but I am still amazed at the silliness. Whatever gets you through the night, I guess...you learn something new every day, and as @gokitty posted,"our disease has room for all manner of folks!" Ain't it the truth! ( have some NOS Buick parts for sale if anyone needs them....by the way...HA-HA!) Cheers! Richard
I've got a buddy with a '67 GS that wants to rent a Star Wars air cleaner for his next show. Anyone got one? (just kidding )
MFG out of Union City, Pa used to build Corvette bodies. I have no idea which generation. The wife and lived about 30 minutes from there. It's rumored there are all sorts of body parts scattered around their compound. Lots of pieces that didn't pass QC. I never bothered to investigate.
Not sure if it's at the same level of what your talking about here, but I remember when Duane was finishing the restoration on the 69 Motion GS. As far as I can remember the car was nearing completion but some of the parts weren't back from chrome plating. Several members here offered and parts were accepted to allow Duane to get the car finished. He was then able to show it or have it ready for a magazine shoot. I think it was an NOS rear bumper, maybe some stainless grille trim?!?! When Duane got his parts back the borrowed parts were returned to their original owners. To me, this is typical of the "Going Fast with Class" mentality that exists in many of the members here. It's one of the things I love about our Buick family!!
Doesn't surprise me. I've competed at shows where a crew shows up with the car. Owner may or may not be there. 5 or so guys wiping, polishing, checking every detail. All about the ego? money? who knows.
As in the Model T story above this happens in the Model A hobby as well. Original fan belts, and fans, nos shifter knobs, nos windshield wipers, nos script battery caps, nos rubber floor mats, etc. Parts are put on for fine point judging then removed and replaced with ones of lesser visual quality, but of better reliability for the mandatory touring part of judging. Most folks do own these special parts, but sometimes they are borrowed or I’ve even had really nice parts offered to me on loan. For my Buick I never go to a cruise night with my tach clip installed, or my original oil filler cap, and many time I have changed the T3s and removed my baffle and baffle clips. These parts I only install for a show where the car may be scrutinized by people who look for these parts. I do this because trying to replace some of these is very difficult if they are lost. Just my 2 cents.
When i was younger me and dad went to the super chevy show at summit motorsports park to show his camino, and watched this guy have his car winched out of the trailer while he watched, he then made his wife/girlfriend/ companion put on gloves and take off her shoes to get into the car and take it to get registered with him. I was dumbfounded to say the least lol
My take, for those who would be interested. You lend a part to someone for a judging , because a part hasn't been shipped in time , didn't get back from the plater/chromer, etc, well... That is a favor... You do it twice , You have broken a rule, wether an actual written rule or morality rule, doesn't, or shouldn't matter . Making a practice of it is , especially a club wide practice is a blatant disregard for the rules, again wether written or moral, makes no difference. Your a sell out, give your trophy away, don't mean nuttin, ifya didn't earn it... My 2cents.......Jim
I know that amongst friends of cars being judged, there are a few parts swapped.. however, that’s at the last minute when a person who knows that the 70 GSX has the wrong “clip” on it from a 71. So, another 70 owner who has the right clip gives it to the GSX owner for judging. That’s about all I have seen/ heard.
Yeah, totally different in every way. Evidently, this is a "thing" amongst various high-dollar guys. I was told that these cars are all trailer queens that live in collections and are never driven. I get it, I guess, but was always of the camp that said, "I drove it every day when it was new, so no big deal. That's what it is for." If you have 100 cars, however, I can see where that would be a bit of an issue. I purposely (and financially!) got my Corvette as a DRIVER as the point was to work on it, learn, and then have fun! At my age, that is the fun to me as opposed to my '72, which I had almost all my life and was rare and I spent years making sure it was "correct" for that part of the hobby at that time in my life. At a different place now...more into the fun part. The idea I got was that this was done specifically to get points and the parts were "rented" for that purpose. Some people take the judging/bragging part of our hobby very seriously, evidently. One would prefer that, as in the Buick world, repro hoses, etc., are accepted in judging as reality is part of our world. Evidently, in Corvette land there are higher standards?? Cheers, Richard
The gingerbread guys are the ones who would show up to the old MCR Shootouts (or similar) with their Hemi this or LS6 that and would be put back on the trailer by a Buick with a few ‘wrong’ parts but a glovebox full of timeslips. Patrick
Rich - Corvettes are crazy - look at a Bloomington Gold standard! For a benchmark car: "This is America’s most prestigious Corvette award. The Benchmark award recognizes those very rare, select Corvettes that represent the ultimate in factory originality and condition. Benchmark Corvettes are not only unrestored, they are very near ‘typical factory production’. It is as if they were put in a time capsule when they left the factory and have been preserved that way until the day they were judged." That's every nut and bolt, hose. belt, chalk mark, etc! For Gold Certification: "Certification is for the purpose of sport. Cars are judged by the National Corvette Certification Board (NCCB) to determine how closely they represent authentic appearance compared to the “day they left the factory”. NO BETTER. NO WORSE. NO DIFFERENT. A Gold Certified® car appears as it would have just after completion of ‘Typical Factory Production’. This does not necessarily mean that a Bloomington Gold car is cosmetically perfect. Factory cars weren’t. Instead, historic accuracy is the goal. In short, every car left the factory qualified to receive a Gold Certificate. However, age, use, repair, and/or inaccurate restorations all take their toll. Therefore, unrestored original cars may do as well (or better) than inaccurately restored cars. Over 200 components (each worth about 35 credits) total about 7,500 credits per car. Credit totals vary by car year. Cars judged to be within the following standards are certified: The components of the Gold Certified® car scoring 100% will have no ‘Easily Detectable’ deviations from ‘Typical Factory Production’ in terms of five key criteria: 1. Originality (F.D.I.C.C.) Finish, Date Codes, Installation, Completeness, and Configuration 2. Damage, deterioration, or missing pieces 3. Technical operation 4. Cleanliness 5. Numbers"
Hi Bill, Yes, so I have discovered. AND, believe it or not, the basic consensus over there is that a car for sale that is advertised as "judged" means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and many times is regarded as a NEGATIVE (REAL cars don't need to be judged) to most Corvette guys. They have a jaundiced view of the judging process year over year, and plainly state that a live survey by a competent person is the ONLY way to tell if a car is any good. I would venture to say that in the couple of years I have been over there, few if any advertised cars are given any kind of thumbs up. You have no idea the things they see and comment about that are super harsh. One is the positioning of the bumpers...a HUGE deal that can be corrected with a wrench and a tape measure in about 10 minutes, but the attitude is that if THAT is not right, well, forget the rest of the car. (Reminds me of the old joke--the ash tray is full, time to trade the car!) I always thought that WE were kind of funny over here, but believe me when I tell you they are in a class all their own. Nothing wrong with that, I guess, if you want to get into their game, but the overall lack of respect for the judging results by the rank and file is amazing to me, so why even enter the contest--not that I ever would. On the other hand, a "Bloomington Gold" certification is looked upon as wonderful by the general public. I had a long discussion over there about this. Well, whatever floats your boat, I guess. My radar tells me that there is WAY more fraud on Corvettes than on our cars--changing the factory "plates" under the dash--they know the PRECISE look of each month's rivets on these things and how the letters should look, etc. Engine number re-stamps are evidently rampant. I don't think I have ever seen a car for sale that boasted "matching numbers" that passed inspection from the posted pictures. It is a TOUGH crowd, believe me! I am really enjoying my C-2--driving it all around town, getting great looks and waves, and generally having exactly the kind of fun I planned to have. Years of Buick experience taught me well--ENJOY THE CAR! PS I put a Buick steering wheel on it...I simply do not care for wood steering wheels! Cheers, Richard
Rich, that is a nice optioned vert. AC, PW, auto and hard top. Looks like Nassau Blue, Sharp car Nelson
