Actually, the overall US economy is doing quite well, just not everywhere and especially Michigan. I think that's why we have state governments and a governor. A one state recession isn't really a national problem. It has been really good around here for almost 100 years. Big ups, and low downs. Not going back up anymore, though. Surrounding states are having problems but are doing something about it, not just blaming someone else and raising taxes on anybody that's still doing well. Detroit is still a huge drain on the entire state. Looks like that's still the plan....grow Michigan through Detroit again. Same old play book. o No:
I agree - better in most places OTHER than Michigan. Since there will no longer be any major manufacturing in this state - all that will be left is Services. Thanks, Jenny, for your forethought about that 2% tax on SERVICES! Great idea! :spank: As for manufacturing across the country - what I see is the American companies moving out and the "foreign" companies building plants. Toyota, Honda, Kia - they're all building manufacturing and assembly plants here. Direct labor costs are a small percentage of the expenses any corporation faces - the biggest hit is OVERHEAD, as it does not directly add any value to the company or product. The traditional management style here, plus the traditional worker attitude are both at fault in differing degrees in the failures of most of these large businesses. Now, I'll tell you that having been a member of the UAW for the past 9 years, and having been management before that - that I think the UAW as it exists now, is completely useless. That BS about the UAW looking out for it's members is a farce. The UAW is nothing but another CORPORATION that is only concerned with its own survival. It will shed any members without thought if that means propagating itself. Case in point - Last year we were given the option of a "Buyout". Take a lump sum of cash, forfeit any medical benefits, future pension, job, seniority, etc. The option at my plant was: take the buyout; try to transfer out (very little opportunity, generally had to take a demotion); or wait until the place folds. Many, many people took the buyout; the deadline to sign up was Sept 15. We were told (by the illustrious UAW) that we would be eligible for COBRA health insurance (at our cost) and unemployment. I started asking questions, about how, when, where, why, how much, etc about COBRA, unemployment, when the checks would be cut, what taxes would be taken, etc. Up until my last day there - Dec 22 - the UAW had NO answers for me (or the other people taking the buyout) and made NO effort to help transition us or inform us. I got all my information from calling someone in the financial department (mgmt). The UAW benefits rep actually told me, "oh well, you're leaving and after that you're on your own, here's the 1-800 number". So much for all that feel-good SOLIDARITY happy horsepucky. :rant: Some people left before the end of the year under the buyout and were receiving unemployment. I JUST today finally received a determination from the MI Unemployment agency - I am not eligible for unemployment because I "voluntarily quit a job which had work available". But if I earn $4500, then I can apply to recertify? If I could make $4500, I wouldn't need the unemployment. That's the great state of MI. I've paid unemployment taxes for 20 years, yet I can't get it now that I need it. (Yes, granted, I made a conscious decision and I'm nowhere near being in dire straits). I put a call in to my UAW benefits representative (no sense calling the committee, they're all useless - don't make me tell you the story about trying to go back to work). Any bets on what my UAW brothers and sisters will have to tell me? My money's on "Sorry, Charlie". (Oh, and to quash the bashing - I am not sitting around waiting for the state to take care of me. I have a graduate school application in for the fall and am waiting for a determination before picking up a full time job that I'll have to quit in the fall to go to school. Also exploring other avenues.)
Another happy note for Michigan............ We're not last in everything here in Michgan. We're NUMBER ONE in the NATION for unemployment. :af: :af: :af: Can the state tax those that are without a job???? Shhhhh...don't give Jenny G. any ideas.
Dave's got it right. Indiana, which is (was) the third largest supplier of auto parts, has an unemployment rate of 4.5%. Ohio has come back some from the steel debacle, but the auto thing has hurt them as well. Double whammy.: The thing that's helped them both is a bit more diversity in manufacturing, and agriculture. Also helps to have a Republican Governor, at least in the Hoosier state. :beer Didn't help Ohio any, Taft was a disaster. Much as I'd like to blame Jenny, it's not entirely her fault. Lotsa bad decisions and product by the auto companies themselves. K cars, Chevettes, Vegas, 4-6-8 Cadillacs, Early GM diesels, Pintos, Even Corinthian leather! Hard to get back a reputation once it's been destroyed that way. Can't blame the japs or Koreans either, they see an opportunity, and they're taking it. It's our own fault. The real question is, once the finger pointing's over, what are we going to do about it?
Auto's are just a part of the equation. Mi. had major appliance manufacturors close or move operations in the not too distant past. Furniture has been long gone etc. After election the Gov said she was not going to change tax code to fight unemployment, but increase education. That's all well and good, if the service industries here can support educational institutions, and lawn care requires a degree!
I just heard that Yamaha just closed 2 facilities in Western Michigan and moved out of the state. Pfizer did same a coupla weeks ago in the sacred city of Ann Arbor. What's wrong with that picture? How can increasing the age for truancy from 16 to 18 and making kindergarten manbdatory for everyone do anything about the economy other than the education system (and all the support services required to support the people on the low end of their totem pole, the teachers, and also get the kids in sooner so they can start filling their heads with more mush and rewritten history. Real estate values in our area are down 30 to 40 percent from a year ago, but we just found out that our property taxes are going up from 3 to 13% in Livingston County. Why? Because the great redistribution of incomme and $$$, called our state government controls the revenue sharing between counties and passes the problem down to the local leval in the donor counties (almost all in the State except Wayne and Washtenaw Counties) but business as stinky usual there. Guess it doesn't really matter what the real estate prices do, there aren't any buyers except in the inner city Detroit renasissance programs for luxury high rises and lofts. The Chinese will save us. They're going to proclaim a new state fruit: Cherry. And that has nothing to do with Traverse City. Wonder if they're working on a way to tax snow? There's a new plan brewing to raise the cost of electrical power in the metro Detroit area. Rates will be cheaper if the source of the power is at least 10% from renewable sources. That's not 10% lower than today, that's 10% lower than the cost of power produced from conventional means (coal, oil) after they raise that to pay for the newer program which will also be higher than today due to cost overruns. I hear they're even talking about nuclear again. Seen the costs of building a nuclear facility today with the federal guielinnes, regulations , and precautions that have ballooned in the last 40 years? Enough warmth, the snow on the roof of our home is melting and it's 7 F'in degrees out. :laugh:
We all know Goodyear had a nasty union strike last fall, especially hard for their truck tire and RV tire buyers, which pissed Gyear off in a BIG way.... apparently, transparently timid, they are back to work now.... I just heard last night from a VERY reliable source and friend in the truck/RV industry that Goodyear has now made the decision to close several USA facilities, as soon as possible, and move production offshore. o No:
Casey To add to what you said, I just read yesterday that Goodyear is moving all production to China. They notified International Harvester to expect some delays during the transition. I believe that, aside from Cooper, they're the last American owned tire manufacturer. All the rest have been bought out by foreign interests. Brian, I thought that Whirlpool in Benton Harbor was adding jobs. Wrong? 30 or 40 years ago Western michigan was the center of the boat building industry in the US. All gone or in Florida now. Chris Craft, Correct Craft, Gar Wood, Huckins, Hinkley (still there) and more I can't remember. The term "Michigan boat" was a compliment.
Well, guess what? Tom La Sorta, Chrysler CEO, is announcing the bad news of 13,000 more people losing their jobs and countless others in the communities where the plants will be closed. Also a new complete business plan is being announced, and guess what it includes? An agreement with a company to produce small fuel efficient cars for them (badge engineering) named..........Cherry! Oh, surprise, surprise. Does this ever stop? There's 13000 fewer taxpayers, and consumers. Maybe we need a layoff tax to get back at the unemployment the state pays out....kinda like when they started taxing Social Security....for those that pay taxes.
Whirlpool in Benton Harbor is adding jobs -- jobs from plants in other states which have have been shut down. Electrolux in Greenville, just down the road from Stanton, closed within the past year and moved all the jobs to Mexico. There's been a couple other major closures in Greenville lately, too. I haven't checked, but I bet housing prices there have plumetted. Anyone want to move in next door to Mid-Michigan Motorplex? :TU: They announced the shut-down (moving jobs to China) of the Yamaha musical instrument plant here in Grand Rapids the same day that Tom started this thread. Political power in Michigan has been shifting to the west side of the state (which tends to be more conservative/Republican) for several years now. It will still be a while until we can overcome the inertia that is Detroit, but it will probably happen eventually. If DeVos had defeated Jenny, things would've been interesting. Bad as it is, the economy in western Michigan is better than the east side. Those of you over there might want to consider a move. I'm all for Jenny improving the schools, but I'm 99% sure that pouring money into them ain't gonna do it. What's broke won't get fixed with money.
How true, Brian. I recall the day after Pfizer announced they were closing down their labs in Ann Arbor. Jen Jen went down to Ann Arbor and had a big pep rally speech with the local labor leaders, politicians...well, you know what's in Ann Arbor these days, and proceeded to announce that they were going to stop this move and keep these jobs in Ann Arbor. Oh yeah? How? Actually what was going on is there's another company, Lycera, that wants to stay in Ann Arbor, but needs "wet lab" facilities to stay there. Controlling investor group is from California and wants them to move out there. Stay tuned for that one. May still work out for the Pfizer people that don't go with the job to New York.
Tom- Sorry to hear about your job loss. Good luck, I hope things work out..... My wife and I decided to build a new house. I was worried that our old house would sell and we would have to be out before our new house was finished. That was in 2005, when things were still decent. Here it is 2007 and we still haven't sold our old house, and I do not see it moving in the near future. We've dropped our price by almost 25% since it's been on the market and still no sale. Two house payments, plus utilities and insurance on the two homes are killing us! If we do not sell it soon, we're going to be out on the street! Don't know what to do. Like it was mentioned earlier, the economy of the nation is supposed to be strong, but you cannot tell it by looking around here.
Mike, I didn't lose my job, we are just very,very slow. Standing around waiting for a customer to call would be the best way to describe it. Sorry to hear about your house situation, a friend of mine is a Realtor, and he might have to make a career change because of the housing market. He can't make comission from a seller OR a buyer. Hope a buyer comes along for you soon.
Hi gang, I pretty much lurk here and hang out, the gang from the pure stocks really seems to be good people. Once in awhile I'll open my mouth and hopefully NOT stick my foot in it. That said, here I go. Joel, i have copied post that and saved it. It is so, SO true, i can't think of a better way to put it. I remember when it was like this as a kid back in the late 70's/early 80's but now i am seeing it from my parents perspective, not as a pre-pubescent teen who hadnt a clue about the real world (but we all THOUGHT we did, didnt we?). What REALLY scares the hell outta me is what will there be for my 15 month old son when he "grows up"? Gawd, I sometims I feel like a real **** for bringing him into this world. To all of you that live in a different state than Michigan, it IS that bad here, as you can tell by the other posts. As for retirement, yeah right. I'll be working until the day I keel over.......... I am by no means a conspiratist, cloak and dagger type or anything like that but is a "revolution" in the future for our own kids? Capitalism is good but when it all becomes about the almighty buck and doing favors instead of doing whats right, something has gone terribly wrong. God save us should the dems take the next presidency. Politicians, not much use to anybody but themselves. I just trudge along, voting when the time comes, trying to make the right decisions, do right by other folks and live my life right. I truly love this state and think its the BEST around for gearheads but as of late I have SERIOUSLY considered moving elsewhere just to do right by my family. Tom, I have had to sell two vehicles in the last 12 months because of the state of the state. I KNOW its not easy but the "adult" in us seems to come out at the appropriate time (whether we like it or not!) and do whats right for our families. Well, guess I'll step down off my soapbox for now. Mike "McFord" McPhillips
And it keeps getting worse and worse........... What am I missing here? Is this insane or not? Is the State of Michigan using Tax Dollars to Solicit Migrant Workers? (LANSING) - With job cuts, job losses, buy-outs, and increasing unemployment, State officials are using tax dollars to try and lure migrant farm workers to Michigan. The sales pitch is ``Venga a Michigan'', which is Spanish for ``Come to Michigan.'' The slogan is part of a promotional effort that Michigan's Department of Labor and Economic Growth is using to try to lure potential migrant workers to the state. Department officials last week visited nine sites throughout Texas, targeting areas with large Hispanic populations that also have high unemployment rates. The Lone Star state has one of the highest illegal immigrant populations. They also have a Florida sales trip planned before the end of Winter.[/B]
Tom- Sorry about the confusion about your job. I took it that your place of employment was closing shop. But I confuse easily. I think it has something to do with my college edumacation. Thanks for the well wishes. I don't try to compain too much, I know that no matter how bad things get, someone else has it worse. Here I am whining about not selling my house, when I thought you were losing your job. Like I said I be college graduate, I not be too smart. Like I said good luck, ya just gotta hope for the best.....
HA... Come down here to FL... Take 'em... Take 'em all... they've done wonders for our economy I'm sure they'll have nothing but good to contribute to MI as wellou: Reading this thread makes me REAL glad we changed our minds about moving back to MI this May. My Mom and Dad are still moving, they've already closed on their house up by Mt. Pleasant/ big Rapids area.
