Was the 401 nailhead available with 3 on the tree in 1959?

Just curious if they ever made an electra/invicta/lesabre with 401 and 3 on the tree. Was it available as an option?

 

Thanks for the article BB. but specifically I want to know if it could have been ordered if a customer wanted it?

 

Gary, since the three on the tree was the "standard" transmission, one would just
not check the Dynaflow option. Most orders checked that box.

 

so you could check the 401 engine box, and leave the dynaflow box unchecked and then you could have the 401 with 3 on the tree right? I wonder if anyone did that? I would have.

 

so yes it could have been ordered if the customer wanted it.

when you say, money talks do you mean, if you give the general manager 10 grand extra to put the parts together at the dealership or do you mean, it could be ordered from the factory with the regular order form and a couple hundred extra for the options?

SpecialWagon says its just a matter of checking the boxes on the order form and adding up the cost of the options.

Remember the original question is "was it available as an option?"

hey did you ever get in contact with your friend with the 71 Impala?

 

Anything was available as an option, up here in Canada you could still up until 1966-67 or so drive over to Oshawa and order up your car straight from the factory and pay less than 2/3 of the dealer invoice price for it. I used to know an older gentleman who used to do this every 2 years until the dealer association forced the manufacturers to shut that practice down. For years that's how rental companies and municipal fleets ordered their vehicles up and generally saved taxpayer's and renters money. After the dealership association forced the issue, costs went up big time. The general public had to do with fixed options packages and getting fleeced by ever-expanding dealerships. It's frustrating, because when I wanted to buy a new car, I wanted certain things in it, and one of those was a 5 speed standard. The dealers wouldn't entertain it, even though it was offered on another type of car with the same engine family. I had to make do with whatever options package I could get, and it's the usual thing; for every one thing you want, you get 2 others you didn't. and in order to get all you want, you have to order 2 separate packages, in other words, pay even more. That's why I looked into the factory direct buying option, which as far as I know is no longer offered in this country.

There were no 1959 or 1960 Buick Invictas or Electras fitted with standards; - at least not through the conventional method. Special order, there might have been, but that would take a fair bit of tracking down now non-existent documentation to prove.

What Erik means by "money talks" is two things; - first off, if you went direct to the manufacturer and paid what they wanted, you could get anything done to your vehicle you wanted. You could have had hot pink flames painted on it if you paid them. Second, you can take the time, spend the money, find the parts, and build exactly what you want, and more likely than not, no one would ever be the wiser, except for the few around this board who know and understand VIN codes.

 

If a "3 on a tree" trans couldn't handle the torque of a 401 NH then it wouldn't matter how much $$ you paid extra, they weren't going to chance having to replace your trans 5 times before the warranty runs out! LOL



Derek

 

what about 59 lesabres. they came standard with manual trans no? to get the 401 all they would have to do is check the box right? and nobody did that? hard to believe. not even in canada with the special factory direct deal you had going?

 

No, apparently not. Invictas were upscale cars, they didn't do very well sales-wise in 59 and 60, the styling was a bit too radical for most, and they certainly weren't on a hot rodder's menu. You also have to look a the context of the time; - most people paying money for an Invicta didn't want a standard, an automatic meant "you've arrived", and that you were someone, plebeian folk shifted their cars manually. The Invicta I bought from the original owner in 1982 was one of those special order cars; - it had absolutely nothing, no power steering, no power brakes, crank windows and basic interior. It did however have the automatic and a radio. The guy told me at the time that there was no way around this, he wanted a 3 speed and they wouldn't do it. He said he wanted the Invicta because of the big engine, but the LeSabre was the only model that offered a standard. It also happened that the car he eventually bought was also the last one on the lot and had most of what he wanted; - so he cut a deal on it. As it was, if there was anything that Invicta was good for was speed; it was stupidly fast. It had a 3.42 rear end in it that more than compensated for the slushy automatic. And as I learned, shift the car manually, and you'll beat anything on 4 wheels.

 

Ok then. You have eye witness testimony that it was not available, at least that dealer refused it. That pretty good proof. Was that automatic a 2 speed like the powerglide? The chevy powerglides I had were all very noisy when in park and neutral, were these 2 speed buick trans the same way? Also do you know what the ratios were? Id like to add it to my Gear ratio calculator. Thanks

I could kick myself, I should have watched craigslist more diligently, could have had this 59 Invicta 2dr for 2k with running drivetrain. I probably will never see one again.

 

I just dug up the old sales brochures I have on 1959 and 1960 Buick. They were both very explicit, synchromesh transmissions were not available on Invicta or Electra, the Twin Turbine was standard, period. So there was no box to tick. Same thing with the station wagons. Standard transmission was available only on LeSabre, and I don't imagine many people took them up on it. I've never seen a 59 or a 60 3 speed car.

I suppose if you had bought the car direct from the factory and waited for it, you might have got one. If there are any like that, they would be incredibly rare indeed. There is no proof and no way to prove anything like that ever existed. It would be an easy enough swap though, the bellhousing and flywheel would interchange from a 364 to a 401, and the Invicta was built on the same frame as the LeSabre so the pedals, torque tube and all of the associated stuff could be swapped out. But, unless it's a going to be a 4 speed, why do it? The 3 speed was never a real good racer, and in those days, 1st gear wasn't synchromesh which meant options and speed shifting were limited. The automatic was much more pleasant to drive and impress your boss with.

Buick was first and foremost a luxury car then. And Buick was definitely hard-selling the Twin and Triple Turbine automatics in those days. It wasn't what it became by the late 60s, it didn't have a real performance division. Buick actively discouraged racing and motor sports, even though in 1960 they subjected a stock, straight out of the box Invicta to a grueling high speed endurance test where they ran one on a track for I think it was 10,000 miles at 70 + miles an hour, not even stopping for fuel and switching drivers on the fly. They wanted to prove that their cars lasted, and would be easy to drive even over long distances. Part of it was to prove the versatility and utility of the Turbine Drive, which the competition pegged as a slush-bucket . This proved otherwise.

 

And finally; - the 401 was not available in LeSabre in 1959 or 1960, at all, period. The only choices were for a low compression 364 with a 2 bbl carb with synchromesh, or an optional 4 bbl carb high compression 364. That's it.

 

nice thanks for the info.

So basically a 3 on the tree 59 lesabre, invicta, electra does not exist.

and what about the powerglide vs dynaflow(twin turbine, triple turbine)? didnt triple turbine have problems? Which kind did you discover the racing trick on ?

 

Our esteemed board member Mitchell Lehman owns a '60 LeSabre wagon with three on the tree.
I think a 59 LeSabre showed up at the Colorado Springs BCA and drove up Pikes Peak with the other 59's.
three pedal cars are a bit of an obsession with me, so these sightings stay with me.
61 and 62 not so sure...did a little research on those years and my take was Dynaflow only.
63 the 3 speed was available again, as was a 4-sp. Pete Phillips, the guy that writes for the Buick Bugle has a 63 LeSabre 3- sp. He had it for sale in the Bugle Classifieds a couple months ago. He is also restoring a 63 Wildcat convertible - 425 4-sp.

 

so you have seen one! and do you know if it was factory? and was it 364 as predicted or 401?

 

I emailed Brian Clark of BCA ( president) he said it was Ed Logan, no details on car other than 3- speed, made it to the top of pikes peak.

 

can we contact Ed somehow?

 

I had a '59 LeSabre with a 364 and three on the tree. Wish I still had it.

 

You are the second person now that testifed to the existence of 3 on the tree in 59 LeSabre. Ya what do you miss most about it that you wish you still had it?

 

In 2013 at the BCA National meet In South Bend In, I saw a 59 Lesabre with a 3 speed on the tree, I think it was from Michigan. :TU: