What to do? 350 engine budget build! $1500 - $2000 Max

I couldn't agree more. Less torque definitely needs better gearing, but I can tell you from personal experience that the ST300 does great with big block torque. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, shot glasses, and coffee mugs.

The stock stall is raised to around 2300-2500 RPM, the converter stays in the torque multiplication range for a longer period of time, which helps to offset the mechanical multiplication it lacks from a lower 1st gear. While it doesn't completely offset it, it does much better than what you'd see 'on paper'.

Guys who use the ST300 in the 1/4 mile show slightly slower 60' times and E.T., but with increased top end MPH performance over 3 speed trannys.

And this is in the 1/4, where the ST300 is at its weakest. It shines as a street trans, where stoplight to stoplight performance isn't the goal, but 20-30 mph on up is.

So while the gearing on it is less than ideal for 1/4 mile use, the reduced parasitic loss makes the engine perform better at higher speeds vs any 3 speed tranny I've used.

Overall, I'd say if you don't have a big block (or something with comparable torque at lower-mid RPMs), then definitely go with more gears and/or better rear end gearing.

 

For mechanical torque multiplication, this is true. What is left out is the time spent during the hydraulic multiplication of the torque converter while in each gear, which will be far less with more gears. While this isn't as important in 1/4 mile scenarios where hp rules, it matters more on the street where torque rules when considering street-friendly gearing.

Has anyone here ran a mild, high torque big block on the street with highway gearing in a lighter car? Now add in longer hydraulic torque multiplication for each gear while reducing the parasitic loss of the transmission, and you'll see just how much torque is being put to the rear wheels.

You better have good traction, or you're going to burn rubber for as long as you care to have your foot on the pedal.

If a high comp 455 using the ST300 with 2.93 gears shifting out of low gear at 80 MPH doesn't sound fun, how about burning rubber from a 30 mph rolling start up to 80 where it shifted?

A dead stop wide-open throttle punch would send the tach immediately to the valve floating point, where it stayed until the car actually got to 80 MPH and finally shifted. I'd get about 2-3 good burns out of a set of tires, then I'd have to get new ones. There was never a need to powerbrake. It would burn the tires (albeit somewhat less) off just the primaries on the Qjet.

I put on larger tires, which helped. It needed more traction control, but I found if I punched it at 50 or so MPH or faster, it would grip.

This was all on dry, hot asphalt. I could never hope to drive it outside of babying the throttle when the roads were wet.

Nothing around at the time could touch it. I've driven a 1970 Stage 1 455 GS with a 3.64 gear and it didn't perform as well as my Lesabre. I know you guys are gonna call bull on that, but oh well.

I couldn't believe the performance that thing had. Talk about a rush!

Would a TH400 with better traction control have performed better? Perhaps. But then I never was a huge fan of drag strips, just back road fun.

I noticed quite a difference between using a TH375 (a weakened version of the TH400) when swapping directly from a ST300. In 1st gear, it took off a bit faster than the ST300, but once you shifted, the parasitic loss became apparent. Shifting into 3rd and it was glaringly apparent. From a dead stop to 50 MPH or so, I'd say the TH375 did a bit better, but after that, not so much.

Less difference between the TH350 and the ST300 parasitic wise, but still noticeable. There's a reason why people choose the TH350 over the TH400 for drag racing.

Not to say one transmission is the one and only for all applications here, just sharing a little story to demonstrate my experience with the differences.

When there's less torque to multiply, the ST300 doesn't impress. This is when more gearing is crucial for pretty much any application.

 

Agreed, Gary.
My point was as yours, to point out the major difference 100 cubes can make as well as gearing...despite potential similarities hovering the blip we call "hp peak".

 

Peace and best wishes everyone. I'm off to kill some monsters on my PS3. lol

 

i know exactly how you feel..
Im always budget orientated.

So 1st advice
go to the parts for sale section to look for parts like headers and possibly a TA intake manifold (saw some stage 1 recently)

get a Qjet from Everyday..

-regarding the TH 350 , or 200r4 you can go to craigslist and find one.. even a CHEVY one with short shaft work ( might be cheaper or more selection than BOP) 200$ just get a adapter plate from summit/Jegs (40$) and maybe a shift kit (60-80$)

- Gears depending on your size Rear. i suggest 3.42-3.73s + POSI for a main street use ( new like 500$/ ebay) + labour (i paid 250$)

-either new points or a HEI Dizzy 60 $ (ebay HEI for Buick 350 works fine)

- BOSCH/NGK spark plugs + wires

- Cam & lifters ..maybe you find some on the for sale section. If not i invested in a custom grind form SCOTT BROWN.
Or go with a LUNATI VOODO Kit they offer Cam and lifters for like 260$ (and they sound awesome)
http://www.lunatipower.com/ProductGroup.aspx?id=287&cid=51

IF YOU HAVE 400 $ left and you need extra Power.. get a Bottle..Lol ..NX or NOS plate kit (400-450$)

 

Absolutely, and I completely understand that but what I based by post on was in response to the OP "...350 engine budget build...."

 

Definitely! Just wanted to expand on your post a bit

 

I agree that a 350 will still make good power. Sure everyone wants a 455. But there are plenty of powerful 350s here on the board. Running 14's ,13's or 12's even before nos. steves 13.5 pure stock is an excellent example of an affordable combo and shows what spending the time to tune it right can do. Running mostly stock parts of the engine.
with decent static compression , a cam with good dynamic compression , and tuning should produce some good lower torque and hp. Add good exhaust,convertor and gears would bring everything together. And if you have a decent running 350, some head work to bump compression, cam , gears . Should show positive results

 

Word

Gesendet von meinem D6503 mit Tapatalk

 

Just to give the op some context, I just purchased a good running 73 455 with all accessories for $1,000.00. By the time you re-seal it with new gaskets, and get the few parts you will need to do the swap you would have around $1,700.00 in it. The up side is you have a well supported great foundation for future upgrades. I debated getting a 350 to build as they are a dime a dozen, in the end I waited to find a 455 cause you only live once

 

I've been running the same Buick 350 that came with the car when I bought it in 89. I've got another one in the back of the garage for a spare. There's a fair amount of speed parts on my shelves for the Buick 350. I probably had one of the first performance built Buick 350 engines in NW Indiana, so I *do* get it.

Having said that, anyone that simply dismisses the LS engine because "it's a Chevy" isn't fully appreciating the refinement that's gone into the LS. It's a total redesign with a deep skirt wide block with tall intake ports and runners. Any Gen IV or V LS made after 2005 is a viable replacement motor.

BUT - I *did* say I'd put in a 455 *before* I'd put in an LS.

 

OK, a 350 will never make the torque a 455 does, but it still makes good torque for a small cube motor. Put that torque and lighter engine in a light car, gear it right, do some suspension homework, and you can get a 350 to walk on some big block cars.

 

Ok so I think this may be my route.

I can get a 455 and a th400 tranny pretty easily $700 plus the cost of a minor rebuild
I have spoke to Mike at everyday Performance to grab the QJet carb from him $389.
Torque converter $250

Still below budget so I have a question about gears $75

Someone on the Forum is selling a couple sets of gears. Should I hurry to snatch up a set before they are gone?
http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?297027-10-bolt-8-5-3-42-used-original-gm-gears-2-sets

If so what else would I need to get for my rear end so that it all matches up and plays well together?

 

Contact "Monzaz" he an set you up with a rebuild kit, new gears, and the tools you will need (or pay a pro to rebuild the rear end):

http://www.v8buick.com/member.php?3880-monzaz

 

Find a used A body rear?

 

I concur. Everything has its pros and cons (I know that sounds like a broken record, but it's worth repeating nonetheless).

If it makes anyone feel better, the LS engines (4.8 and 5.3) take 'cues' (not really, but we'll pretend) from the Buick 350, or at the very least, some ideas/philosophies. Longer intake runners, block skirt increased, narrow bore (3.78 for LS versus 3.80 for Buick 350) giving it a smaller combustion chamber than the old Chevy small blocks. It's pretty much not even a "Chevy" anymore. If anyone should 'complain' it's the old chevy lovers lol. But then their engines got a vast improvement, so what's to complain about?

Think about it fellas. Stuff the Buick engineers knew back in the 60's is finally being implemented into newer designs for a better small block for GM (don't bother calling it a "chevy" anymore).

Maybe more accurately, "Chevy" took cues from the 231/3.8 or 3800 Buick v6 (which WAS pretty much a Buick 350 with 2 less cylinders and shorter stroke), added 2 more cylinders with a similar stroke-bore ratio (or at least in the ballpark with the same idea) and other engineering ideas to come up with the LS engines.

Intake runner ports. Anyone looked at the LS intake ports, particularly the 'cathedral' ports? Look familiar? Hint: tall and narrow.

I know this is an oversimplification, but look at it from a distance. Learn from the past and implement the knowledge into future designs. The LS engines resemble good breathing Buick small blocks more than they resemble chevy small blocks. My opinion.

If anything, we Buick lovers should take it as a compliment.

 

Your minor rebuild will be $1000 to $1200.

Then to install it you will also need BB frame pads, BB fan shroud, BB exhaust down pipes, BB front springs, maybe a radiator upgrade, ETC.


Nothing against the LS engines, just boring. no challenge. LS has been put in everything already. They make terrible truck engines though. Drove a couple 2500 Silverados with the 6.0 and what a dog those were. No torque at all. My older 5.7 Vortech had more guts. Reports were the gas mileage was same as the 8.1. Thats why I bought the 8.1.

I don't think that swap would be less cost either. Even if the engine were free you need high pressure fuel system, controller and harness, mounts, accessory drive, etc. Thats way more than $2000.

 

455+ th400 for 700 is a good deal.
Rebuild will cost you a bit... But its fun.
And authentic buick.

The LS idea is great i think.. Would be a up to date swap. Lot of parts for all kind of wallets available. And a ton of potential.
400$ buys you a 5.3 lm7 plus cam and headers and you on the top end of a sbb right away.
Custom wiring harnesses are available as well for like 500$ that connect to your oem fuse box plus you can get all adapters for any tranny needed.

Definitly to consider..

Gesendet von meinem D6503 mit Tapatalk