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  1. #76
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    optiontown
    Posts
    149

    Default Re: Frequently asked questions about 4 speed parts..PLEASE ADD TO THIS!!

    Quote Originally Posted by gd2227 View Post
    original floor hump manual hump 4 speed hump trans hump (sorry- keywords when people use the 'search' feature)
    BTW- there is a number stamped on this one: 6068W22
    What year is this and is it a console or non-console cover?

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Oak Ridge NJ
    Posts
    1,064

    Default Re: Frequently asked questions about 4 speed parts..PLEASE ADD TO THIS!!

    For all the 4 speed experts;

    OK, I'm going to ask this question considering I'm confused as to the type of Muncie (M20/M21/M22) transmission that came factory with the 71 Stage 1 cars. After looking at 5Speed.com and various threads about the subject I've come to the conclusion that there's a difference of opinion. After looking at the information in detail it seems that 70 and 71 had a mix of transmissions and gear ratios as you'll see below.

    SUBJECT CAR;

    1971 Buick Stage 1
    3:42 rear gears
    Air conditioning
    Muncie M? transmission

    Three questions;

    1) What Muncie transmission and gear ratios came factory with the 71 Stage 1?
    2) What would be the preferred Muncie transmission and gear ratio for a 71 Stage 1 - for best performance?
    3) Did the 71 GSX Stage 1 have a different transmission/gear ratio configuration? If so, what was it?

    Ratios of the M20 , M21 , M22

    Year 1963-1965 Type: M20 Rings: None Ratio: 2.56 / 1.91 / 1.48 / 1.00 / 3.16
    Year 1966-1974 Type: M20 Rings: Two Ratio: 2.52 / 1.88 / 1.46 / 1.00 / 3.11
    Year 1963-1974 Type: M21 Rings: One Ratio: 2.20 / 1.64 / 1.28 / 1.00 / 2.27
    Year 1967-1974 Type: M22 Rings: None Ratio: 2.20 / 1.64 / 1.28 / 1.00 / 2.27


    Input Shaft Tooth and Spline Count Related to Year

    Year 1963-1965 Type: M20 Rings: None Spline: 10 Tooth Count: 24
    Year 1966-1970 Type: M20 Rings: Two Spline: 10 Tooth Count: 21
    Year 1970-1974 Type: M20 Rings: Two Spline: 26 Tooth Count: 21
    Year 1963-1970 Type: M21 Rings: One Spline: 10 Tooth Count: 26
    Year 1970-1974 Type: M21 Rings: One Spline: 26 Tooth Count: 26
    Year 1967-1970 Type: M22 Rings: None Spline: 10 Tooth Count: 26
    Year 1969-1974 Type: M22 Rings: None Spline: 26 Tooth Count: 26
    "It'll only cost a little more money, really"

  3. #78
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    3,695

    Default Re: Frequently asked questions about 4 speed parts..PLEASE ADD TO THIS!!

    Would have been a m21 with 26input 32 output, 70 and back was m21 10spline and 71 up was 26 spline, as far as what ive seen anyway
    70 stage 1 Back under construction
    540 Tomahawk, F1c-94 Procharger
    Holley HP EFI, Stage 2 TE's
    Shooting for 1khp at the tire and 5.50s

    .

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Oak Ridge NJ
    Posts
    1,064

    Default Re: Frequently asked questions about 4 speed parts..PLEASE ADD TO THIS!!

    Excellent, thank you.

    Mike
    "It'll only cost a little more money, really"

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Loganton,Pa
    Posts
    7,766

    Default Re: Frequently asked questions about 4 speed parts..PLEASE ADD TO THIS!!

    Hugger is right.Until I see proper documentation that any Buick received an M22,it's just a myth. I had a discussion awhile back on the topic of the M22 and if it ever was an option. And there is no way I would believe a stamping as I have seen a couple.4 speed housings unstamped without any VIN..I want to see a buildsheet or something..I agree that the M21 would be the best transmission for your car too.. I have an M20 that I have from an old GS 400 68 car that I put in my 73 GS as it had a new clutch and pressure plate.That was a bad idea as it can hardly get out of it's own way when I take off. I have 3.42's in that as well as a 350 motor. The transmission will be getting replaced as soon as nice weather arrives.
    Pat Harmon
    1970 QQ GSX back half car
    1970 462 Skylark

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,129

    Default Re: Frequently asked questions about 4 speed parts..PLEASE ADD TO THIS!!

    Can I ask about the clutch pedal linkage to z-bar?
    What are the differences if any, are there between the years for this linkage?
    In my 72 manual, (I now have a 71, but thought it could be a starting point) the connection to the z-bar and the clutch both have a stamped 90 deg. leg with a round pin diameter to go through the hole of both matting parts.
    I have an exact appearing linkage from the z-bar into the boot through the fire wall one more bend, then at the end it has 2" of threads and an adjustable U shape that is put on this threaded end of the linkage.
    Are there different clutch rods?
    Or, maybe someone broke the pin on the clutch end and just cut the end off and threaded the rod?
    Here is a picture of what I have.
    Thanks!
    Troy
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Troy Acton

    BPG # 1536

    1971 GS Stage1 4-speed
    Herche Performance -- Iron Heads, original Intake/Exhaust manifolds, Fred Catlin Quadrajet -- Stock Appearing 470
    507hp/ 555tq

    1988 Mustang LX 5.0 5-speed T-Roof Original owner

    Previous cars
    1972 GS455 Convertible Red/White top and interior
    1970 QQ GSX #202 non-stage 4-spd. 30,449 original miles!
    1970 Stage 1
    1972 Stage 1 ZZ (Flame Orange)
    1968 Coronet R/T 440 Red/White int.

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Franklin MA
    Posts
    1,545

    Default Re: Frequently asked questions about 4 speed parts..PLEASE ADD TO THIS!!

    That looks like it's broken at the pedal side.
    Paul Massicotte
    MASSHOLE
    1966 Buick GS Post Coupe
    1970 Buick Skylark 470 4 speed- 11.44 @ 122 MPH

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    LI,NY
    Posts
    20,025

    Default Re: Frequently asked questions about 4 speed parts..PLEASE ADD TO THIS!!

    Yep, looks like there's a piece of it missing!
    Jason Cook
    BPG #1675
    "Expert in obsolete technology"

    1968 Riviera GS- some assembly required
    1969 Riviera GS- my first car
    1969 GS-350
    1970 Stage 1 4 speed Aquamist
    1970 GS-455 Bamboo Cream beater
    1971 GS 455 11.93@113.36
    1972 GS-350
    1970 Stellar Industries vintage go kart

    Deo duce, ferro comitante

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,129

    Default Re: Frequently asked questions about 4 speed parts..PLEASE ADD TO THIS!!

    Thank you for the quick response!
    If someone has a picture of a good one, maybe worth posting still.
    I have created a WTB thread, thanks again!
    Troy
    Troy Acton

    BPG # 1536

    1971 GS Stage1 4-speed
    Herche Performance -- Iron Heads, original Intake/Exhaust manifolds, Fred Catlin Quadrajet -- Stock Appearing 470
    507hp/ 555tq

    1988 Mustang LX 5.0 5-speed T-Roof Original owner

    Previous cars
    1972 GS455 Convertible Red/White top and interior
    1970 QQ GSX #202 non-stage 4-spd. 30,449 original miles!
    1970 Stage 1
    1972 Stage 1 ZZ (Flame Orange)
    1968 Coronet R/T 440 Red/White int.

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Franklin MA
    Posts
    1,545

    Default Re: Frequently asked questions about 4 speed parts..PLEASE ADD TO THIS!!

    Sure. Here you go.
    Paul Massicotte
    MASSHOLE
    1966 Buick GS Post Coupe
    1970 Buick Skylark 470 4 speed- 11.44 @ 122 MPH

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Ranger Country
    Posts
    4,653

    Default Re: Frequently asked questions about 4 speed parts..PLEASE ADD TO THIS!!

    Who has the part # for the z-bar bushings ? Looks like a little A-arm bushing . Guess I have too many threads subscripions to find it :0
    Thanks
    DL
    Wouldn't you really rather have a Buick ?

  12. #87
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Southwest Ohio
    Posts
    5,068

    Default Re: Frequently asked questions about 4 speed parts..PLEASE ADD TO THIS!!

    Not sure who's part number you're wanting, but the parts place's number is MT21677T.
    Shawn
    "I drive too fast to worry about my cholesterol..."
    -72 Skylark- Project "Rusty Hulk"- 462ci 4 speed street bruiser
    Build Thread: http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?293656-Build-Thread-Project-Rusty-Hulk
    -72 Skylark- The wifes ride, " Elsa " - bone stock and classy cruiser
    BPG #2288 (RIP)
    BCA Member #???? (For Now)

    "The garage looks like the house of
    Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde..."






  13. #88
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    26,493

    Default Re: Frequently asked questions about 4 speed parts..PLEASE ADD TO THIS!!

    Same part used in a 60s Vette.
    Jim Lore
    BPG 1037
    "If you cannot clear up the confusion at least make the confusion clear."

  14. Default Re: Frequently asked questions about 4 speed parts..PLEASE ADD TO THIS!!

    Quote Originally Posted by flynbuick View Post
    Same part used in a 60s Vette.
    This is the bushing.

    http://www.zip-corvette.com/catalog/...category/6717/
    Last edited by moleary; 02-08-2015 at 10:28 AM.
    MarkO
    "There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die."-Raoul Duke
    Street Sleeper~'70 Skylark Holiday Coupe
    Build-> http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...ge-Find/page10
    N2O-> http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...-Nitrous-facts
    Hydraulic Clutch &T/O Bearing-> http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...-chime-in-here

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Sacramento CA area
    Posts
    3,672

    Default Re: Frequently asked questions about 4 speed parts..PLEASE ADD TO THIS!!

    387-2955 Not a phone number, but a GM part number. Should come back as late 60's corvette rear suspension bushing at your Chevy dealer. Two come in the bag.
    BadBrad
    '70 GS455 - Power Brute Super T10 4spd
    ex. '70 GSX
    New Project: 2000 Mercury Grand Marquis - for the kids to drive.
    New Muscle: 2013 Ford Taurus SHO - Twin Turbo Terror

    Spare 455 on the stand, just in case!


    Slideshow of BadBrad's Car: http://s517.photobucket.com/albums/u...view=slideshow

  16. #91
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Ranger Country
    Posts
    4,653

    Default Re: Frequently asked questions about 4 speed parts..PLEASE ADD TO THIS!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BadBrad View Post
    387-2955 Not a phone number, but a GM part number. Should come back as late 60's corvette rear suspension bushing at your Chevy dealer. Two come in the bag.
    There we go Brad's the man.

    DL
    Wouldn't you really rather have a Buick ?

  17. #92
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    205

    Default Re: Frequently asked questions about 4 speed parts..PLEASE ADD TO THIS!!

    Quote Originally Posted by gd2227 View Post
    Here is a 4 speed consolette AND a type 2 STORAGE console (many people refer to this style of console as a 'consolette'). There are three (3) styles of storage consoles: a type 1 (1965- early 1970)- has a Buick tri shield emblem (refer to next post) and a late 1970-1972 type 2 with a push button (refer to pic below). There is also the third which is used to hold eight tracks, etc. The storage consoles attach to the floor by a bracket in the rear welded to the floor and one (1) screw for the front.
    I have a question in reference to the consoles or whatever you guys decide to call them. I have the short one up front around the four speed shifter, but instead of the tri shields logo on the little round emblem I have a 4 speed pattern.....why? The car does have the tach, but I am not sure that it came with any of the console at all. The car is super stripped down so I'm thinking it was added by the second owner.
    -Kyle

  18. #93
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Frequently asked questions about 4 speed parts..PLEASE ADD TO THIS!!

    What and where to buy a complete Muncie 4 speed set up for a 1970 GS455? Will any Muncie M20 or M21 work? Complete, meaning shifter with linkage, ready to bolt in. M20 vs M21 difference, which is the desirable one to try to find. The car currently has a Saginaw 4 speed.
    Thanks in advance!

  19. #94
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Dracut, Ma
    Posts
    282

    Default Re: Frequently asked questions about 4 speed parts..PLEASE ADD TO THIS!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 69GSM21 View Post
    I have a question in reference to the consoles or whatever you guys decide to call them. I have the short one up front around the four speed shifter, but instead of the tri shields logo on the little round emblem I have a 4 speed pattern.....why? The car does have the tach, but I am not sure that it came with any of the console at all. The car is super stripped down so I'm thinking it was added by the second owner.
    -Kyle
    Kyle,
    To the best of my knowledge (90% sure) you have a 69-70 consoles and they had the 4 speed pattern and you need to use a black shifter ball with no 4 speed pattern on it, just black. Did you look for the build sheet? Check behind the rear seat or on top of the fuel tank. If you find it, it will tell the story.

    Ron

  20. #95
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Dracut, Ma
    Posts
    282

    Default Re: Frequently asked questions about 4 speed parts..PLEASE ADD TO THIS!!

    Quote Originally Posted by TCBronson View Post
    What and where to buy a complete Muncie 4 speed set up for a 1970 GS455? Will any Muncie M20 or M21 work? Complete, meaning shifter with linkage, ready to bolt in. M20 vs M21 difference, which is the desirable one to try to find. The car currently has a Saginaw 4 speed.
    Thanks in advance!
    The 69-70 big block clutch set up is different from the small block and other years. The Z-bar and Clutch fork are the two main differences. The z-bar had a bushing on the pedal rod side and the clutch fork had a pin with round eyelet and bushing. There was someone I believe on this board who reproduced them. I think his name was Dave Kliner. Sorry I don't have his number. Maybe some her can help out! Very rare to fine an original.

    Ron

  21. #96
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Southwest Ohio
    Posts
    5,068

    Default Re: Frequently asked questions about 4 speed parts..PLEASE ADD TO THIS!!

    Quote Originally Posted by TCBronson View Post
    What and where to buy a complete Muncie 4 speed set up for a 1970 GS455? Will any Muncie M20 or M21 work? Complete, meaning shifter with linkage, ready to bolt in. M20 vs M21 difference, which is the desirable one to try to find. The car currently has a Saginaw 4 speed.
    Thanks in advance!
    M20 is a wide ratio gear set, M21 is close ratio. M20 will have a lower (higher numerically) first gear which makes it a bit more friendly with cars with higher (lower numerically) rear end gears. The one that's more desirable is the one that fits your application better! You didn't mention this specifically, but the M22 is usually the most desirable as it is a close ratio with gears cut at a different angle to aid in strength.

    I have an M21 in my car with a 3.42 rear and it plays pretty nice together.
    Shawn
    "I drive too fast to worry about my cholesterol..."
    -72 Skylark- Project "Rusty Hulk"- 462ci 4 speed street bruiser
    Build Thread: http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?293656-Build-Thread-Project-Rusty-Hulk
    -72 Skylark- The wifes ride, " Elsa " - bone stock and classy cruiser
    BPG #2288 (RIP)
    BCA Member #???? (For Now)

    "The garage looks like the house of
    Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde..."






 

 
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