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  1. #76
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Smack in the middle of Hollywood, CA
    Posts
    635

    Default Re: Timing on your Race BBB's

    Any one have the distributor locked out?
    69 Skylark
    470-BBB
    2004r- 3500 stall 9.5" lock-up
    3.73 12-bolt
    3900 lbs.


    Dave Benisek+Bruce Kent
    2010 GS Nationals video
    http://youtu.be/nLD4Dugcv48

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Medina,Ohio
    Posts
    2,192

    Default Re: Timing on your Race BBB's

    Quote Originally Posted by flatire View Post
    Any one have the distributor locked out?

    Yes,That's pretty much the only way I would do it.
    Gary Kubisch
    '70 Skylark STG 2
    9.40's at 141+ all motor at 3370lbs
    ALL IN GOOD TASTE

  3. #78
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Smack in the middle of Hollywood, CA
    Posts
    635

    Default Re: Timing on your Race BBB's

    Quote Originally Posted by GS Kubisch View Post
    Yes,That's pretty much the only way I would do it.
    Gary, great thread. What you timing set at?
    69 Skylark
    470-BBB
    2004r- 3500 stall 9.5" lock-up
    3.73 12-bolt
    3900 lbs.


    Dave Benisek+Bruce Kent
    2010 GS Nationals video
    http://youtu.be/nLD4Dugcv48

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Medina,Ohio
    Posts
    2,192

    Default Re: Timing on your Race BBB's

    Thanks.......
    I've been all over through the years.
    26* to 36*
    I've settled at 33* on my 505.
    Gary Kubisch
    '70 Skylark STG 2
    9.40's at 141+ all motor at 3370lbs
    ALL IN GOOD TASTE

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Oakland Gardens, N.Y.
    Posts
    27,445

    Default Re: Timing on your Race BBB's

    Quote Originally Posted by flatire View Post
    Any one have the distributor locked out?

    That is the way to go on a race car. As long as you have a crank retard, it's fine. Every combination will want different timing. If you can get the car to a track, start with 32* Run the car and note the trap speed. Increase the timing 2* at a time until the trap speed drops off, then back off the timing. For some reason I got my best trap speed at 39* of timing. Maybe the combination of my aluminum heads, 118 cam, and SP1 intake. I don't know, but it liked it.
    Larry
    1998 "Fully Optioned" SC3800 Riviera
    70 GS 455 Stage1, TSP 470, 602 HP@ 5900, 589 TQ @ 4900
    TA Hyd Roller Cam, 230*/238*, 112, .544"/.577" lift, 4-7 swap
    MSD Digital 6+, Ignitionman Distributor w/MSD trigger
    THM400 with Ultimate 258mm converter, Gear Vendors OD
    AED 1000 HO Carb, 800 CFM 7042240 Quadrajet
    8.5 10 bolt, 3.73's Race weight 4025lbs.
    Best E.T. 11.54 Best MPH, 116.06
    Larrymta@verizon.net, GSCA #291
    BPG # 1063
    N.E. GS/GN Club Assistant Director

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    742

    Default Re: Timing on your Race BBB's

    Anybody else running a long rod motor? When changing to 7.250 rod length my set up would fall quickly after 31*, I presume because of the extended dwell time near, and at TDC. I haven't tried a retard set-up with this combo, but since I'm bringing it out for the first time since 1997 its worth looking into a little deeper, alot of advancements in timing control today, (no pun intended). Any thoughts?
    BLUZILLA
    Lawrence Berte
    (Larry) A.K.A. "The Doctor"

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    chardon,ohio
    Posts
    5,444

    Default Re: Timing on your Race BBB's

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluzilla View Post
    Anybody else running a long rod motor? When changing to 7.250 rod length my set up would fall quickly after 31*, I presume because of the extended dwell time near, and at TDC. I haven't tried a retard set-up with this combo, but since I'm bringing it out for the first time since 1997 its worth looking into a little deeper, alot of advancements in timing control today, (no pun intended). Any thoughts?
    I run long rod motors,found that et wise 30* seems to be the right total advance. never ran a retard.the dyno may show more advance =more hp but I've found the et was best at 30.
    gary
    gary
    Iron Stage 2
    GSCA #51
    BPG #1135
    To grow old is mandatory,
    To grow up is optional.
    "CARPE DIEM"

    69 GS400 4 speed documented Stage2,original owner,18k miles
    68 GS400 Stage2 race car "Great Scat" 9.94
    69 GS400 4 speed convertible
    70 Q-Q GSX ( actually Sandy's) pure stock trim,12.78 best et
    70 Race car, "Thumper"resurrected. 9.80
    71 GS 455 10 second street car, triple black
    71 GS 455 11 second grocery getter

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    BRIGHTON,CO
    Posts
    892

    Default Re: Timing on your Race BBB's

    We are talking timming I have a 466 that has 6.950 Rods i am running 34 timming on the Mountain mybe i should pull some timming out. Mybe 30-33 mybe a little Faster

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Grand Rapids Mi
    Posts
    1,196

    Default Re: Timing on your Race BBB's

    Quote Originally Posted by flatire View Post
    Any one have the distributor locked out?
    I do.

    Dyno liked 38 total. Made almost 30 more hp from 36 to 38. Hit it with 180 spray and dropped it back to 36. So, 651 at 38 deg and 819hp at 36. Ran 93 oct on the motor and 110 on spray.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=111673

    1984 t-type. 462
    10.7 @126 Street car, pump gas.
    109mph in the 1/8 blowing the tires off the line and in 2nd, small shot of spray
    Mike Running

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Deltona,Fl.
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Timing on your Race BBB's

    Ater reading this thread, other factors that come in to play with the timing numbers. Total spark available, high energy ignitions will have hotter spark to light quicker and consistantly, lesser ignition will need less cylinder pressure and or more fuel. Timing indicators, how many people do an actual piston stop to check for real TDC. Altitude is another one. Higher altitude will require more timing. Engine load, convertor, gears, weight, tire size. Many variables come into play so telling someone they have too much timing may not help there cause, But it is how we all learn.

    My .02
    Todd
    83 Crimson Cat
    70 Fairmont Wagon

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Sadieville,KY
    Posts
    1,285

    Default Re: Timing on your Race BBB's

    I have read this tread and one question that came to mind. Does the condition of the combustion chamber come in to play? They are different shapes and if they are polished or rough?
    Tony
    Wish I had Back:
    70 STG 1 SCO WHITE LEATHER INT
    70 GS455 SCO Convert.
    Have:
    71GS455 Bittersweet Mist
    87 GN Least optioned

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Deltona,Fl.
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Timing on your Race BBB's

    Quote Originally Posted by leo455 View Post
    I have read this tread and one question that came to mind. Does the condition of the combustion chamber come in to play? They are different shapes and if they are polished or rough?
    Tony
    Yes, All of those variables will come into play. A smoother chamber will create a faster flame travel, less timing will be needed. The shape will help or hurt. Also spark plug position and standard or extended tip will have an effect.
    Todd
    83 Crimson Cat
    70 Fairmont Wagon

  13. #88
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Timing on your Race BBB's

    Old thread but interesting reading.

    I'm currently re-vamping my fuel and ignition tables on the EFI and reading up on the subject. Good stuff here.

    I had always heard the timing pull back was meant for 3rd gear only, ie second half of the track, when the cylinder would be heat soaked and pulling timing is what the A/F would want since more of the heat would stay in the chamber.

    Now what to do on my ignition advance table......
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Columbia, TN
    Posts
    1,698

    Default Re: Timing on your Race BBB's

    I tend to be with Gary on timing even though my engine is not as large as his. I have tried several settings and stay at about 32 most of the time. I do have a locked distributor as I have a cranking retard and the ability to change the timing by RPM. I do pull it back to 30 degrees over 6,000 which I only see in high gear as I shift at about 5975. You just have to use what works for you. And the dyno and the track are two different things.
    Jim Netherland
    "Mad Torquer"
    Last edited by gymracer01; 10-17-2011 at 09:44 PM.

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Merryland
    Posts
    5,208

    Default Re: Timing on your Race BBB's

    I like to run 34 deg with a super quick curve that's all in as soon as the motor starts. I used to run locked at 32 but even though my MSD digital 6 has start retard I don't think it always worked. Maybe have to hold ignition on for a second before cranking? I would often get spark knock and slow cranking.

    With the quick curve and 12.5 comp it starts like a puppy even on pump gas.

    Also, I take 4 deg out over 5000. I want my motors to last a long time.....

  16. #91
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    92

    Default Re: Timing on your Race BBB's

    The best way to find optimum spark advance, is with cylinder pressure transducers, and find LPP or location of peak pressure. All internal combustion engines need a LPP of 14 degrees ATDC to achieve max power or MBT minimum spk best torque. If you don't have access to pressure transducers, then a simple spark sweep at a delta of 500 RPM to Delta 250 when your getting close to peak power. A spark sweep @ each speed and load will insure that you find MBT. The limiting factor to this is fuel quality and spark sensitivity. In other words, you will not be able to reach MBT if the engine is knocking.

 

 
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