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  1. #26
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    Jun 2008
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    Arizona
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    548

    Post Re: '76 455 for fuel economy?

    Is anyone out there running the 4L80E (or 4L85E) that can report their MPGs. Just curious.

    Also, is there a benefit to TBI on a 455...and what is the cost to convert?

    Right now, I am setup with a almost stock 455 (has TA Stage 1 cam) 2 1/2" exhuast and a late 4L80E with a 3.42 Rear end. Car isn't finished so I have not been able do much driving with it unlicensed

    thanks.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    42

    Default Re: '76 455 for fuel economy?

    Did that 4l80 bolt right up witout an adaptor?? I've been thinking about getting a 700r4, but unsure what newer car will have a bell that will bolt right up. That should help some milage for sure.
    72 455 Electra in a 69 Chevy LWB.

  3. #28
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    Talking Re: '76 455 for fuel economy?

    You'll need an adapter plate ($50) because only the bottom two bolts will align properly. The person I bought my 4L80E from is a GM transmission engineer (works in the Powertrain Development Dept). He stated the 4L80E is the chevy bolt pattern only. I can give more info on what it takes to convert just shoot me a PM or email...The most costly thing other than the transmission itself is the TCM..I just built my own. Id figure I could not settle for anything less of a transmission than one that has the same specs as a TH400 and I wasn't going to pay an unreasonable amount of $s for the TCM.
    Last edited by black70buick; 06-26-2008 at 08:53 PM. Reason: spelling

  4. #29
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    Jan 2008
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    42

    Default Re: '76 455 for fuel economy?

    What about a 700r?? I guess just an adaptor plate there as well?? Or is one made with a buick bell, like the t400?? 4th gear would help everyones MPG for sure.


    Hate to take the thread in a different direction, but i think tranny and gear options are related to fuel economy.

    ttt
    72 455 Electra in a 69 Chevy LWB.

  5. #30
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    Jun 2008
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    Arizona
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    Default Re: '76 455 for fuel economy?

    I think the 700R requires the adapter plate too. The 200R4 I believe has a universal (Chevy & Buick bolt patern) bell housing. Your gunna have to ask the guys in the "juice box" thread. I believe you'll hear more about them (200R & 700R) and they don't require electronics but they are also lighter duty transmissions, break easier. I definately agree on the additional gear and lockup will, in most or all cases, greatly increase MPG...that's why i'm curious if there is anyone out there with MPG numbers for a 4L80E.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    24

    Default Re: '76 455 for fuel economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by black70buick View Post
    I think the 700R requires the adapter plate too. The 200R4 I believe has a universal (Chevy & Buick bolt patern) bell housing. Your gunna have to ask the guys in the "juice box" thread. I believe you'll hear more about them (200R & 700R) and they don't require electronics but they are also lighter duty transmissions, break easier. I definately agree on the additional gear and lockup will, in most or all cases, greatly increase MPG...that's why i'm curious if there is anyone out there with MPG numbers for a 4L80E.
    A properly prepped 200-4R will hold up to quite a bit. A friend is an ASE cetified trans tech with about 17 years experience, he built a 200-4R for a guy to put in his Olds Vista Cruiser with an Olds 455. With the 200-4R he was running 12 secoind 1/4's that was a few years ago and the last he heard it was still going strong. It takes quite a bit of HP & TQ to get a Vista Cruiser in the 12's..

    Just so you guys know I have decided to keep the Studebaker V-8 in my '55. I put dual exhaust and a new 500 Performer on it, it made quite a difference in the way it runs and it sounds great. Everybody told me Stude V-8's had a very distinctive sound, they were right. Thanks everyone for your input. I'll still drop in and that 430 is still there so who knows? If the right car comes along.....

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Edmonton Alberta
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    13,714

    Default Re: '76 455 for fuel economy?

    To sum up the overdrive swaps in a quick and easy way:

    If you have a th350 trans then a 200R4 is a REALLY easy swap since it is the same length ect as a th350. If you have a th400 or require a HEAVY duty trans then the 4L80E with an adapter plate is the best option since it shares the same size ect as the th400. The 200R4 can be built to heavy duty specs but dollar for dollar I prefer the 4L80E for a 500 ft/tq BBB.

    All of the info you need for overdrive trans swaps is in this thread:

    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...overdrive+swap
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________
    My book called Small Block Buick Performance covering the V6, 215, 300, 340, and Buick 350 engines will be released soon.

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    1970 Buick Skylark Turbo 350 street/strip

  8. #33
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    Jul 2002
    Location
    Dayton, OH
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    238

    Default Re: '76 455 for fuel economy?

    fwiw I have an 87 442 with a Cadillac 509, q-jet, 200-4r, and a working lock up converter. It had 3.42s ie a 2.29 final drive ratio and 28" tires. Mine was built with reliability driveability power brakes etc 1st performance 2nd and fuel mileage 3rd. This is not great its just what it is as I am not a tuner or a racer. Anyway I took her to the track when I first got it together, with me a full tank of fuel & a full size spare etc it weighed 3,840 on their scales. It ran a 12.50 at 110mph full exhaust street tires just as its driven. Two days later we took an out of state trip where I followed my buddys diesel truck & car trailer. He pretty much ran 75mph the whole way. She got 17.0 mpg. With a 230@50 duration cam which is obviosly not designed to maximise mileage but workes well with an honest 10-1 static and I believe was still in its zone at the 2,400/2,500ish rpms it was traveling at.

    The way I see it is I am getting good performance (so far as their is definately more in it) with great driveability & reliability and decent mileage. I think if I had a th400 I would have gotten 12mpg and just as important to me turned a lot more rpms and been harder on the motor or had to give up acceleration to get back mileage & rpm. BTW its a zero deck motor and on the trip I ran 89 octane. It has a rebuilt stock lock up converter that stalls at 2,800 which as you know unlike with a 3 speed only comes into play at hard throttle.

    My 200-4r is a basic street strip build with the only upgrade being the billet drum/shaft piece. I would recomend this part for any low 12 or faster 450+ cube big block gbody. Big blocks are more brutal and harder on parts than the equivelent turbo car. The Buick 455 in some ways is a lot like the big Cad in that it has high velocity heads that help to make considerable grunt low in the rpm range. In fact I think the Bu generally makes more grunt and lower than anything other than the big Cad. I have almost 9,000 hard as in riped up & wore out a new pair of large drag radials plus some used tires, miles on the transmission with no repairs. The only other upgrade being a large cheap transmission cooler. Its a great transmission if properly built & set up for a 4,000lb or less hot street car. I would not use it for a primarily dragstrip toy, something heavy like a truck or to tow anything.
    Last edited by Vern; 07-16-2008 at 01:43 PM.
    71 GS 455 Stage 1, Sold to be restored

    87 GN, TE-60 turbo, Stretch intercooler, 42.5lb injectors, 3" downpipe, 3,000 stall lockup converter, Meth/water injection, Original owner

    87 Olds 442, 509ci Cadillac, 800 Q-jet, Performer intake, Street ported heads, 230@50 518 lift cam, Headers, 200-4R, 2800 stall lock-up converter, Electric fans & intank fuel pump, AC, Factory oil pres & tach work, Functional Hurst hood, Rear spoiler, 36mm front swaybar, 17mpg hwy, Both 2run 11.8ish 113+ on pumpgas

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    548

    Default Re: '76 455 for fuel economy?

    How much does it cost to build up a 200r4 for a mildly built BBB. I am just wondering? I only paid $1000 for a freshly build stock '98 4L80E and the prices for what appeared to be able to hold up to a BBB..the prices I found (700r ot 200r) were well over $2K.

    thx
    -Chad

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Dayton, OH
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    238

    Default Re: '76 455 for fuel economy?

    $1,500 unless you add the billet drum/shaft. $1,000 sounds like a deal on a recently rebuilt 4l80e. Probably no builder to stand behind it at this point though. Also not sure what you would have in getting it to work in a gbody.
    71 GS 455 Stage 1, Sold to be restored

    87 GN, TE-60 turbo, Stretch intercooler, 42.5lb injectors, 3" downpipe, 3,000 stall lockup converter, Meth/water injection, Original owner

    87 Olds 442, 509ci Cadillac, 800 Q-jet, Performer intake, Street ported heads, 230@50 518 lift cam, Headers, 200-4R, 2800 stall lock-up converter, Electric fans & intank fuel pump, AC, Factory oil pres & tach work, Functional Hurst hood, Rear spoiler, 36mm front swaybar, 17mpg hwy, Both 2run 11.8ish 113+ on pumpgas

  11. #36
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    Jun 2008
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    548

    Default Re: '76 455 for fuel economy?

    ok so the prices I found a year do fall inline with what I have expected. As far as the builder of my 4L80E. Well, this is another reason why I bought it. I bought mine from a GM Powertrain Development Transmission Engineer (thats what his card reads) who works in the Arizona GM Desert Proving Grounds S.E. of Phx. been there 30 years working with the full line of automatic transmissions. btw there is now a 6L80E out in some of the newer cars/trucks!!! He's a very nice guy I was very lucky to cross paths with him. In fact he gave all the info I needed to create my own TCM including TCI's software. Very nice guy.

    So far $1000 for transmission, +$50 for BOP adtapter (ebay) + $80 for driveline shortening. I had extra steal for making a new mounting bracket. The mount for the tranny was ~$15. For the TCM I had most of the parts needed from my EE kits I used in college. Just had to spend the time programming the chip. I'd say in all fairness I have the complete setup for $1700 and I made no modification to the floor pan like a few folks suggested I might have had to do. The only thing outstanding is to figure out which way to drive the Speedo, via hardware like the orig cable or make it electrically driven.

    I've got pix: http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=157013

    The only down side to this set up is that I don't have the lower gear ratios of 1 & 2 like the 200 and 700 and a little more weight (~40lbs), but the excitement of choosing any gear at the touch of a button is awesome.

    -Chad

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Dayton, OH
    Posts
    238

    Default Re: '76 455 for fuel economy?

    Very cool. Only not everyone can duplicate the deal & what you have done to / for the 4l80e at the cost you have. I like the route you went better especially for a heavy Riv. (as compared to a gbody) Should make a great combo with the 3.42 gear. I have heard the push button/paddle shift is very cool especially around a track. I saw your pics and dig your car what you have done and are doing. Have you checked out www.gesslerheadporting.com? I would think even just his bowl blend deal would help her breath and free up a lot of power so that she runs as good as she looks. That and some good bellmouthing of those exhaust manifolds. This car is going to be really enjoyable and fun to drive as long as its quick enough to surprise the crap out of the average light weight GT mustang.
    71 GS 455 Stage 1, Sold to be restored

    87 GN, TE-60 turbo, Stretch intercooler, 42.5lb injectors, 3" downpipe, 3,000 stall lockup converter, Meth/water injection, Original owner

    87 Olds 442, 509ci Cadillac, 800 Q-jet, Performer intake, Street ported heads, 230@50 518 lift cam, Headers, 200-4R, 2800 stall lock-up converter, Electric fans & intank fuel pump, AC, Factory oil pres & tach work, Functional Hurst hood, Rear spoiler, 36mm front swaybar, 17mpg hwy, Both 2run 11.8ish 113+ on pumpgas

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    548

    Default Re: '76 455 for fuel economy?

    What is bowlblending and bellmouthing? I checked out the site, cool stuff.
    I believe bellmouthing is opening the exhuast manifold at the flange area? Has there been any cases of the exhuast manifold cracking when ported and then run in different outdoor temps? I would much rather improve my stock manifolds than fuss with headers in that rivi. but also don't want to have to replace another cracked exhuast manifold. (the X frame leaves little room). Do you know if it is $250 for sure for porting both R&L manifolds or is it 250 per manifold?

    Thanks
    -chad

    fyi, if anyone is running the 4L60E (newer version of 700R4 as I understand it)...it has the exact opposite shift pattern of a 4L80E, so it is easy to create paddle shifter for it too, especially on the cheap compared to TCI. I might play with my 02 tahoe since its got a 4L60E. All wiring is essentailly the same.
    Got pix of intergrating buttons in steering wheel to shift. http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...04#post1237804

    ...sorry I tend to blabb a lot just getting too excited.
    <profoundly ambiguous quote here>
    http://www.classyhomestorage.com/Home.html
    -Chad
    http://www.supportmyleg.com/Home.html
    Garage:
    1970 Buick Riviera
    1987 Grand National

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Dayton, OH
    Posts
    238

    Default Re: '76 455 for fuel economy?

    You have heard the old racer expression "the power is in the heads" It may be oversimplified but it is true. The first cheapest and often some of the biggest improvements for power or at least bang for the buck comes from bowl and valve work. Especially bowl work if you move to a bigger valve. If you go to his site and click under head porting, Buick 455, OEM, levels 2 and or 3 he explains. You may already have the bigger valves which could save you money off his quotes.

    I would encourage you to call and talk to him you will learn a lot quick and can get cost clarification & or maybe a little instruction on doing the basics to the exhaust manifolds. I am a fan of getting the best heads you can afford & useing the least amount of cam neccessary to make the power you need & to meet your other goals / match your motor / car combo.

    Yea bellmouthing is to smooth enlarge & shape your exhaust manifold at the flange area much like a styrofoam cup. Usually to match a 2.5" pipe which is normally a safe size to avoid cracks & leaks. Its also your biggest power gain for time spent. Too many people spend big on big pipes & mufflers in the back of the system and leave the pinch point up front untouched negating much of what they would have accomplished. You have a lot of weight to move and you don't want to leave any easy cheap low end torque on the table if you want to shock say mustang boy in his 1,000 pound lighter lil hot rod.
    71 GS 455 Stage 1, Sold to be restored

    87 GN, TE-60 turbo, Stretch intercooler, 42.5lb injectors, 3" downpipe, 3,000 stall lockup converter, Meth/water injection, Original owner

    87 Olds 442, 509ci Cadillac, 800 Q-jet, Performer intake, Street ported heads, 230@50 518 lift cam, Headers, 200-4R, 2800 stall lock-up converter, Electric fans & intank fuel pump, AC, Factory oil pres & tach work, Functional Hurst hood, Rear spoiler, 36mm front swaybar, 17mpg hwy, Both 2run 11.8ish 113+ on pumpgas

 

 
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