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  1. #26
    No Lift is offline Platinum Level Contributor
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    Default Re: more power from the 231?

    Been there, done that!

    Don't get carried away with a later model 4BBL intake. Your engine MAY be an even-fire, I think they actually started in 1978, but Buick did raise the ports on the 231 around 1979. This means the later 4BBL intake won't fit right on your early 231. They didn't make a factory 4BBL for the early engines.

    In the early 80's I had a '75 Skylark SR with the 260 V8 with the infamous Dual-Jet "1/2 Q-Jet". Smoothest running V8 I ever saw but the slowest. Ran 19.7's at the drags. I decided to install a '67(?)225 2BBL V-6 in it. I installed a KBMK1 cam in it and a set of KB shorty headers. It ran an "astounding" 19.3 and a few mph better than the V8. Slow as all heck off the line being shackled by the stock converter and 2.73 gears in a car that weighed near 3600 lbs without me. The hatchback and SR option really added weight. The car was a bit more exciting to drive though because now you could easily rev it up to 5000+ and would actually chirp the tires 1-2 at about 60 mph.

    After awhile with that I stepped up to a stock '69 Buick 350 4BBL with mild cam and Hooker headers and with the same driveline it ran 14.4@94.

    I piddled around a few years ago with a 252V6 in a '83 Regal Wagon. I replaced the factory 4BBL intake with a Weiand and a mild Wolverine cam and it really woke it up. Never got around to headers. According to my Vericom on the street it went from low 20's to low 19's in the quarter which just made it feel a whole lot better.

    What it comes down to is that you can throw a ton of money into a normally aspirated V6 but unless you get serious and rev it up it will never make any decent power. BIG cam, heads, gears and converter plus compression boost will make power but for the cost of a stock 350 you'll probably still be ahead. Weight of the car will always be against you.

    Here's what I would do if you wanted to add some excitement to the V6 you have. Weiand, Edelbrock, or KB 4BBL intake. Mild cam upgrade. Headers. Watch the exhaust size. Dual 2" with x-over or at least H-pipe and quiet mufflers will do because the engine won't flow much air and if you go with a louder muffler it will be obnoxiously noisy. V-6's don't sound particularily good when thay are loud. Get a converter into it. Maybe something like a cheap 3000 stall 10" which would be lighter and allow the engine to rev up faster and get you out of the hole quicker. Shift Kit in the trans to add some zing when you shift. Don't forget to recurve the distributer and upgrade the HEI ignition parts. You could also consider after doing the above stuff a small 75-100 HP N2O could be addeed. The engine would take it no problem for occasional use.

    I got my later engine stuff off E-Bay so search there.
    Mike Pesarchick
    1976 Century 455
    BPG #1572
    NE GSGN #29
    GSCA #8
    Texas Mile 164.4 MPH

  2. #27
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    Default Re: more power from the 231?

    i was just reading that they changed in 79, sadly i only have 1 pull apart locally so maybe this weekend i will venture out to other areas and look for one.
    Aaron

    1978 Buick Skylark 4 door(Whole Earth Brown) 231 v6 even-fire Auto

  3. #28
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    ellington, ct
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    812

    Default Re: more power from the 231?

    mike, we took out the 350 on the yellow car and put in a v6 for the fun of it. if you remember it was my son's tan skyhawk. he beat on it hard.
    its a 252 , .060 over, no head work, mild cam, around .460 i think, k-b intake, 600 holley, headers. now the yellow car has 4.56's, 3500 stall, trans brake and the huge 31 x 10.5 slicks. it will spin the slicks . saturday at lebanon, it went 14.08 @ 94 mph. john said the tach was at 6500 rpm at the end. i was laughing pretty good at it.
    damn tough little engine.

    noraarm, if you want to build a v6, find a 4.1. no substitute for cubic inches.

  4. #29
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    Default Re: more power from the 231?

    Have a look at the back of the block and give us the casting numbers from the block just in front of the trans. I bet your v6 is an even fire, but give us the numbers and we can tell you forsure. Take a pic of the engine too and post it.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________
    My book called Small Block Buick Performance covering the V6, 215, 300, 340, and Buick 350 engines will be released soon.

    http://www.v8buick.com/forumdisplay....rformance-Book
    __________________________________________________ ____________________________
    1970 Buick Skylark Turbo 350 street/strip

  5. #30
    No Lift is offline Platinum Level Contributor
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    Default Re: more power from the 231?

    John, pretty much backs up what I said. Time for a KB MK3 cam and some 13's!
    Mike Pesarchick
    1976 Century 455
    BPG #1572
    NE GSGN #29
    GSCA #8
    Texas Mile 164.4 MPH

  6. #31
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    Tacoma WA
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    Default Re: more power from the 231?

    here is a pic of the engine i have from the other day, i will try to get numbers soon.

    http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...t/DSCN2436.jpg
    Aaron

    1978 Buick Skylark 4 door(Whole Earth Brown) 231 v6 even-fire Auto

  7. #32
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    Default Re: more power from the 231?

    Quote Originally Posted by noraarm View Post
    here is a pic of the engine i have from the other day, i will try to get numbers soon.

    http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...t/DSCN2436.jpg
    You have the evenfire engine by the looks of it... You could bolt on a set of 80s v6 heads and intake I am pretty sure.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________
    My book called Small Block Buick Performance covering the V6, 215, 300, 340, and Buick 350 engines will be released soon.

    http://www.v8buick.com/forumdisplay....rformance-Book
    __________________________________________________ ____________________________
    1970 Buick Skylark Turbo 350 street/strip

  8. #33
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    Default Re: more power from the 231?

    If the engine is original then it definately is an even fire. To find out easier than looking for engine numbers would be just pop the distributor cap off, remove the rotor for easier viewing, and see if the points on the pick-up coil (six of them) are evenly spaced. If they are evenly spaced it's even fire, if they are oddly spaced then it's an odd fire.
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  9. #34
    No Lift is offline Platinum Level Contributor
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    Default Re: more power from the 231?

    I don't know why I was thinking Aaron's car was a '77 but since his is a '78 it is an even-fire engine. That was the year it was introduced across the line.

    Scott, way to go on getting hard data! I remember the heady days when I lived close enough to the dragstrip to take anything over and race it. Didn't matter how it ran, just had to race.

    Yours being quicker than my non stock setup was makes sense. Mine was even heavier(!)because it was the SR and I still had the V8 torque converter behind a V6 which means the stall speed was even lower for slow going off the line. (If I knew then what I know now.) You're a recurved dist. or some good air away from an 18! Good info for you Aaron on what you can expect from a stocker. Just about anything you do to it will help it go faster.
    Mike Pesarchick
    1976 Century 455
    BPG #1572
    NE GSGN #29
    GSCA #8
    Texas Mile 164.4 MPH

  10. #35
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    Default Re: more power from the 231?

    www.buickperformancegroup.com has a v6 specific forum area . just looked at it quick , its got some dif info . also , in the late 70's i think , hot rod mag did a series about modin' a v6 regal using road/nascar suspension etc and nascar/hot rod engine mods . nice wheels and custom paint and had cale y. test drive neck and neck with some busch v6 cars at a track . did real nice too . del
    ## edit ## don't know if they go back that far online ? i should ( if i can dig deep enough ) have copies if needed . take me awhile . another mag did one of those motors NA and put it into a vega wagon . i think that ran good too according to what they said .
    Last edited by DEADMANSCURVE; 07-03-2010 at 11:08 AM.
    DEL EMERSON 1965 SPECIAL/350/MUNCIE M-21/9"
    "YA' CAN'T ALWAYS PUT OFF THINGS YA' WANNA' DO FOR THINGS YA' HAVE TA' DO!!
    GSCA#4436 BPG#1579

  11. #36
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    Default Re: more power from the 231?

    i finally found a intake in my area, its a V6 Kenne-Bell 4 bbl intake manifold. Model Kenne-Bell-1, i cant find anywhere online that tells me what 231 they fit. does anyone know if it fits the early 231 even fires?
    Aaron

    1978 Buick Skylark 4 door(Whole Earth Brown) 231 v6 even-fire Auto

  12. #37
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    Default Re: more power from the 231?

    Quote Originally Posted by noraarm View Post
    i finally found a intake in my area, its a V6 Kenne-Bell 4 bbl intake manifold. Model Kenne-Bell-1, i cant find anywhere online that tells me what 231 they fit. does anyone know if it fits the early 231 even fires?
    I would buy an intake manifold gasket and compare the ports to the gasket... Then you will know for sure.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________
    My book called Small Block Buick Performance covering the V6, 215, 300, 340, and Buick 350 engines will be released soon.

    http://www.v8buick.com/forumdisplay....rformance-Book
    __________________________________________________ ____________________________
    1970 Buick Skylark Turbo 350 street/strip

  13. #38
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    Default Re: more power from the 231?

    Quote Originally Posted by noraarm View Post
    i finally found a intake in my area, its a V6 Kenne-Bell 4 bbl intake manifold. Model Kenne-Bell-1, i cant find anywhere online that tells me what 231 they fit. does anyone know if it fits the early 231 even fires?
    I'm going to bet it'll fit. I'd do as Sean says and check the gasket alignment. The even and odd fire engines have different intake gaskets, but I think it may only be for the exhaust cross over, which may be deleted in the kenne-bell intake

    I bolted a 4bbl kenne-bell intake of unknown part number to my odd-fire 231, and had problems getting the the small AFB carb I got for it sealing at the base (my blantent inexperience/ignorance at fault there). Otherwise I don't recall any intake sealing issues, or didn't notice them.....
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  14. #39
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    Default Re: more power from the 231?

    I am 99% sure the KB intake is for the odd fire engines and would not work on the 78.

    There are several differences between the various years of the v6 intakes:

    1. The PVC is not on all intakes.
    2. The later intakes ports are taller and if using a miss matched intake it will not work well.

    I am pretty sure that even within the even fire engines there is two hieghts for the intake ports. I think it was 1979 that they went with the taller ports and the 78 only had the lower versions. This leaves the 78 as a one year only intake and head port size as far as I know.

    I went through this with the 78 3.8 in my Skyhawk. In the end I went with a set of heads off a 87 GN and an intake off a 81 4.1L engine. I ported the heads, gasket matched the heads and intake, and was going to add a turbocharger through a blow through carb but then lost interest and sold the car to build the twin turbo 350 Skylark.

    I have heard of people welding extra material to the early intakes then port matching them to the later style heads.

    If it was me I would find a set of heads and 4bb intake from a 4.1L Buick V6 and swap them on. Might as well just swap in a whole 4.1 engine at that point though.

    Even better I would prefer to swap in a Buick 350, less work for the HP and more importantly the TQ gain.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________
    My book called Small Block Buick Performance covering the V6, 215, 300, 340, and Buick 350 engines will be released soon.

    http://www.v8buick.com/forumdisplay....rformance-Book
    __________________________________________________ ____________________________
    1970 Buick Skylark Turbo 350 street/strip

  15. #40
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    Default Re: more power from the 231?

    Just thought I'd through this idea into the pot. How about installing a supercharger and manifold from the supercharged 3.8's. You might have to modify the blower drive as well as plug the port injection bungs in the manifold. Also you'd have to fab a carb to blower manifold ( or convert to SFI). If you set the boost at about 5# you'd probably have 250 net HP. The SC 3.8 had 250 HP on 3# boost but they had SFI.

    That being said the SBB 350 swap will be the easiest, cheapest, and quickest option. Also if your v6 is in decent shape you can sell it to defray some of the cost.
    Marc

    '72 Skylark 2dr ht project
    2010 Avalanche
    '97 GMC Z71
    '50 GMC 1 ton (purchased new by Dad & I still use it)
    Polaris RZR 800s

  16. #41
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    Default Re: more power from the 231?

    Quote Originally Posted by exfarmer View Post
    Just thought I'd through this idea into the pot. How about installing a supercharger and manifold from the supercharged 3.8's. You might have to modify the blower drive as well as plug the port injection bungs in the manifold. Also you'd have to fab a carb to blower manifold ( or convert to SFI). If you set the boost at about 5# you'd probably have 250 net HP. The SC 3.8 had 250 HP on 3# boost but they had SFI.

    That being said the SBB 350 swap will be the easiest, cheapest, and quickest option. Also if your v6 is in decent shape you can sell it to defray some of the cost.
    I'm pretty sure the FWD 3.8's are 60* blocks not 90* blocks. That's why they are called Series II, and very little will actually cross over to the RWD blocks.
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  17. #42

    Default Re: more power from the 231?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSilverBuick View Post
    I'm pretty sure the FWD 3.8's are 60* blocks not 90* blocks. That's why they are called Series II, and very little will actually cross over to the RWD blocks.
    I think the 3800's are still 90* engines but the series II 3800's have a slightly shorter deck.
    --Bill--

    1966 Buick Skylark 4-dr Hardtop 340-2, ST300, 2.78s

    1967 Buick Skylark 4-dr Post-sedan- Parted out, gone but not forgotten
    Lots of parts left still
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...oor-Post-Sedan

    1997 Dodge Ram 1500 SLT Laramie, 318, AT, 3.55s "The Parts Hauler"

  18. #43
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    Default Re: more power from the 231?

    4 barrel intake and carb, then nitrous if cam, head work, and exhaust is out of reach.
    Sold the 69. Now working on 68 GS CA.
    I hate bodywork
    Patrick

  19. #44
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    Default Re: more power from the 231?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSilverBuick View Post
    I'm pretty sure the FWD 3.8's are 60* blocks not 90* blocks. That's why they are called Series II, and very little will actually cross over to the RWD blocks.
    The Series II 3.8's are still 90*. The used them in RWD 90's Camaro & Firebirds as well as a lot of FWD cars. But since I don't remember what changes were made to the 3.8 to turn it into a series II it's possible that the supercharger won't fit on an earlier 3.8.
    Marc

    '72 Skylark 2dr ht project
    2010 Avalanche
    '97 GMC Z71
    '50 GMC 1 ton (purchased new by Dad & I still use it)
    Polaris RZR 800s

  20. #45
    No Lift is offline Platinum Level Contributor
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    Default Re: more power from the 231?

    Here you go:



    Well KB says it fits everything but I'd bet if you really wanted it to work best with the '79 and up raised ports some port matching would be required but for the '78 and down it is just a bolt on. I don't think there was much difference between the odd-fire and even-fire heads up to '78. Try a nice small Holley or Edelbrock.
    Mike Pesarchick
    1976 Century 455
    BPG #1572
    NE GSGN #29
    GSCA #8
    Texas Mile 164.4 MPH

  21. #46
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    Default Re: more power from the 231?

    350 was a option in your car and your insurance company isnt going to know the difference they go by vins
    66 skylark 2 dr hartop...... in progression
    83 lesabre 4 door waiting on its 350 buick
    04 sivlerado ccsb 4x4 2500 hd d max white
    12 kia sorento sx
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    http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v237/nekkidhillbilly/

 

 
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