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  1. #26
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    Default Re: 400/430/455 Block ID, Prep and Oiling mods

    George;

    If your heads are at GG, ask him to put a pipe plug in the head thats drilled and tapped. Its the same thing as plugging the block.
    Azeem
    Ottawa Ontario Canada

  2. #27
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    Default Re: 400/430/455 Block ID, Prep and Oiling mods

    Quote Originally Posted by online170 View Post
    George;

    If your heads are at GG, ask him to put a pipe plug in the head thats drilled and tapped. Its the same thing as plugging the block.
    ok will do thanks.
    George



    "If ur going to beat a Hemi you better have a Buick"

  3. #28
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    Default Re: 400/430/455 Block ID, Prep and Oiling mods

    There is no corresponding hole in a 455 cylinder head..

    George, that hole is an R drill bit size now.. or aprox .339..

    You can try an 11/32 cup plug.. you might have to take an 11/32 drill bit, and grease up the flutes to catch the shavings, and open it up a touch.

    JW
    Owner/operator

    Tri-Shield Performance
    Jim Weise
    Founder/Owner
    V-8 Buick.com
    320-629-8999

    Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
    Abraham Lincoln
    16th president of US (1809 - 1865)

  4. #29
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    Default Re: 400/430/455 Block ID, Prep and Oiling mods

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Weise View Post
    There is no corresponding hole in a 455 cylinder head..

    George, that hole is an R drill bit size now.. or aprox .339..

    You can try an 11/32 cup plug.. you might have to take an 11/32 drill bit, and grease up the flutes to catch the shavings, and open it up a touch.

    JW
    Any other alternative rather than drilling i can do?i dont know why scotty would leave it open like that?
    George



    "If ur going to beat a Hemi you better have a Buick"

  5. #30
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    Default Re: 400/430/455 Block ID, Prep and Oiling mods

    Not really George, I don't think I would want to try and stick epoxy in that hole.

    Honestly, folks have been building motors for years with the hole sealing oil pressure at the head gasket.

    I plug it, and others do also, because we are just elimination leak possibilities. I first saw this passage leak years ago, in one of my race engines, and couldn't for the life of me figure out how the LH head gasket could leak oil.. till I went and looked at a bare block, and saw the hole.

    At 40-60 psi of the stock motor, sealing that passage with the head gasket is no big deal, but when we push the oil pressures up to keep the motor alive, it becomes more of a potential issue.

    If I were you, I would put a little extra sealant around that area on both sides of the head gasket, and not worry about it.

    JW
    Owner/operator

    Tri-Shield Performance
    Jim Weise
    Founder/Owner
    V-8 Buick.com
    320-629-8999

    Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
    Abraham Lincoln
    16th president of US (1809 - 1865)

  6. #31
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    Default Re: 400/430/455 Block ID, Prep and Oiling mods

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Weise View Post
    Not really George, I don't think I would want to try and stick epoxy in that hole.

    Honestly, folks have been building motors for years with the hole sealing oil pressure at the head gasket.

    I plug it, and others do also, because we are just elimination leak possibilities. I first saw this passage leak years ago, in one of my race engines, and couldn't for the life of me figure out how the LH head gasket could leak oil.. till I went and looked at a bare block, and saw the hole.

    At 40-60 psi of the stock motor, sealing that passage with the head gasket is no big deal, but when we push the oil pressures up to keep the motor alive, it becomes more of a potential issue.

    If I were you, I would put a little extra sealant around that area on both sides of the head gasket, and not worry about it.

    JW

    Will do Jim i thank you again for the info.
    George



    "If ur going to beat a Hemi you better have a Buick"

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Main Feed Enlargment/radius work

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Weise View Post
    Main Feed Enlargement/radius work

    Purpose: To insure adequate oil volume delivery to the Passenger side main galley.

    Background: For Grandma's Electra, that never saw the high side of 4000 rpm, with the factory built tight main and rod clearances, the main feed hole was large enough to do the job. But when we open up the main and rod clearances on a performance engine, we want to ensure adequate oil volume.

    When to do: All Performance builds with clearances .0025 and above, and all engines that will be operated over 5500 rpm.

    Tools required:

    • 1/2 drill
    • 6 and 12 inch long 1/2 drill bit
    • 37/64 drill bit
    • 3/8 NPT tap
    • Die grinder with 12" long 1/4 and 1/2 inch flame and ball carbides, cartridge rolls.


    Supplies required:

    3/8 to 1/4 inch NPT pipe bushing

    Before we get into the actual mods, let's take a minute to look at the oil flow, from the pump outlet, to the Pass side main galley.

    There are actually two passages involved here. I used my 12" long carbide to illustrate them.

    Up from the passenger side of the block, to the cam tunnel.

    This hole has the oil pressure sender on the end of it. It does not come out at the main galley, rather at the cam tunnel.



    This hole actually is intersected by a hole drilled from the number 1 main saddle, to deliver the oil to the passenger side main galley. If you have ever wondered why the oil hole on the number one main is so much bigger than the other 4, now you know..


    The intersection point is here:

    So let's start with our 6" 1/2 diam drill, and enlarge the hole from the sender up to the cam tunnel. As before, keep your drill centered.


    Once again, when you break thru at the intersection point from the front of the block, you will get that ridge that will want to snap the drill out of your hands..



    As with the feed passage mod, take your die grinder and carbide ball, and grind that sucker out.. don't make this harder than it has to be.


    Now, center your drill in the hole on the other side of the intersection point, and continue drilling, a little at a time, taking the time to remove the shavings and watch the hole, to make sure it stays centered in the block.

    After you bottom out with the 6" bit, go to your 12" one, and finish the hole.





    Stop drilling at the cam tunnel. You will know when you get there, as it will want to snap the drill out of your hands.



    Now, we have a rough edge and incompletely drill hole to deal with, when you don't push the drill all the way thru, but stop at the cam tunnel. You will get a ridge exactly like we dealt with earlier. To deal with that take your 12" flame shape carbide and finish the hole out nicely.

    That completes this modification.
    JW

    Jim i dont understand this post. I was trying to explain this to someone, and i realized i didnt understand it myself.


    Do you drill 1/2" ALL THE WAY INTO THE CAM TUNNEL? Or do you drill 1/2" to the intersection point? Im almost to the cam tunnel, quite close to the intersection point, but im not sure if the 1/2 drill should open up the hole all the way through where the No.1 cam bearing would be installed. I realize you mention, the drill shouldnt "finish" the hole, the carbide burr should. But the question is, is one of the holes in the No.1 cam bearing area supposed to be 1/2"?? If so, why?

    Its not clear from the post, ive read it over a couple times. Please advise.
    Azeem
    Ottawa Ontario Canada

  8. #33
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    Default Re: 400/430/455 Block ID, Prep and Oiling mods

    No, do not drill all the way thru the cam tunnel.
    Stop when you see the tip of the drill bit in the hole for the cam tunnel.

    The fourth picture down shows just that.

    JW
    Owner/operator

    Tri-Shield Performance
    Jim Weise
    Founder/Owner
    V-8 Buick.com
    320-629-8999

    Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
    Abraham Lincoln
    16th president of US (1809 - 1865)

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    algonac MI
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    6

    Default Re: 400/430/455 Block ID, Prep and Oiling mods

    hello jim my name is curt iv got a 73 riv gs 455 and im getting ready to start it
    I primed the oil pump and have a hot battery in it now w/plugs removed
    im rolling the motor over with the driver side valve cover off and im trying to see oil pump up thru the push rods and its not yet how long should it take for that to happen ?the motor is bored 30 over nothing done to the heads 3 angle
    grind and cleaned up edlbrock in take and another thing my oil light is on with the wire pluged in to censor Im all most ready to fire it up but I want to see oil thru the rockers . and could you send me some pics if you have any of
    the wiring lay out from the main connection on fire wall to the motor thanks for your time

  10. #35
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    algonac MI
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    6

    Default Re: 400/430/455 Block ID, Prep and Oiling mods

    455 oil prep and wire harness pics of engine compartment thanks again curt

  11. #36
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    May 2002
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    Default Re: 400/430/455 Block ID, Prep and Oiling mods

    Quote Originally Posted by 73Rivie View Post
    hello jim my name is curt iv got a 73 riv gs 455 and im getting ready to start it
    I primed the oil pump and have a hot battery in it now w/plugs removed
    im rolling the motor over with the driver side valve cover off and im trying to see oil pump up thru the push rods and its not yet how long should it take for that to happen ?
    STOP.

    You've squished out all the cam lube attempting to "prime" the engine.

    This was NOT a good idea.

    Pull the intake, inspect the lifters and cam lobes. If they're still usable, re-apply the cam lube. Use a drill motor and priming tool to turn the oil pump WITHOUT turning the crankshaft.

    When it comes time to start an engine, START IT, don't screw around cranking it forever.

  12. #37

    Default Re: 400/430/455 Block ID, Prep and Oiling mods

    well this helps so much .. all my chevy buddys are giving me **** cause #3 mains always spin .. so hopefully this will be my fix ...

  13. #38
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    May 2002
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    230

    Default Re: Suction passage enlargement

    [QUOTE=Jim Weise;1726524]The first hard core oil mod. No enlargement required on 71 and later blocks, as the factory already has the hole at 5/8, but a little radiusing never hurts.

    Purpose:- To insure adequate oil delivery on the suction side of the pump, working with the 5/8 diameter pickup tube.

    Background: The factory suction feed passage in the block, on most 70 and earlier 455's is 1/2 inch. The Factory found this to be inadequate, and a running change was made in late 1970 to update all future engines to a 5/8 diameter passage.

    When to do this: All engines builds.

    Tools required:

    • 5/8 drill bits- 6" and 12"
    • 1/2 electric drill
    • die grinder with oval and flame shape 1/2" carbide burs and a 1/2 cartridge roll setup


    This mod is pretty straight forward, but there are a few pointers I will share.

    First off, you need both drill bits, the short and long one.. starting with the long drill be makes it unnecessarily difficult to start the hole straight. TA performance can supply you with the long 5/8 drill bit.



    Starting with your short bit, start drilling slowly, and watch so that your keeping the hole centered.



    Keep drilling a little ways, then clean the shavings, and watch so that you keep the hole centered.

    Switch to the longer drill bit when you run out of room with the 6" bit, and it will take every bit of that 12" length to get the hole drilled out, all the way to the pickup tube.




    When doing this modification always check the oil pan bolt holes above this line
    making the pickup hole larger can break into the bottom of the oil pan bolt hole.
    causing a difficult to find air leak into the pick up side of the oil system.
    you may have to put a short set screw into the bottom of the pan bolt hole to seal it up or be sure that pan bolt has sealer on it!

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Burbank California
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    694

    Default Re: 400/430/455 Block ID, Prep and Oiling mods

    Thanks Dave!

    I just did this mod on my 455, when I saw the oil fog coming from the oil pan bolt hole it spooked me.
    Just good info to know.
    69Skylark 500cu in. 200r4/355 12bolt
    72LeSabre 455/200r4/342 Cruiser
    70GS455 Convertible Survivor!! 464/200r4
    BPG#1504
    Thanks
    Nick White

  15. #40
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    Feb 2002
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    Maine
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    Default Re: 400/430/455 Block ID, Prep and Oiling mods

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Weise View Post
    The most important thing to consider with the oil pickup is to keep it submerged in oil, with proper pan baffeling, but that discussion was outside of the scope of the original post, so I didn't get into it.

    Now that we have brought it into the discussion, I will say that the majority of stock to moderate performance engines get by fine with the stock pan, with an acceleration baffel welded in.

    There is power to be had by moving the front of the oil pan away from the front 4 con rods, as the oil spraying off them is very much like putting a garden hose against a brick wall.. it's resisting the rotation of the crank.

    Several years ago I did an oil pan test on the dyno.

    I tested the following, on a 550 HP 464.

    Stock oil pan

    added in a crank scraper

    Aftermarket oil pan with deeper front

    And then with the addition of a full length windage tray.

    As I recall the numbers:

    The scraper was worth about 3 Hp

    The aftermarket pan was worth 9HP

    The full windage tray was worth 7 or 8 HP on top of the pan gain. It was also noted that the windage tray increased the oil pressure by about 6-8 psi.. we assume that was due to a reduction in airation of the oil. I was actually more interested in this, than with the increase in power.

    A 17 HP gain with a pan/windage tray is impressive, but the cost of a aftermarket pan and custom build full length tray is substantial. Something to consider if the budget has more room in it for goodies.

    All testing was done with 30wt oil and 170-180* oil temps, max engine rpm of 6000.

    One other dyno experience I had related to oil pans.. be careful not to run too much oil. Just because you have something that is advertised as a 9 quart oil pan, doesn't mean you should run that much in it.

    My experience was actually a tube chassis car pan, that would easily hold 12 quarts. I started out with 10 in it, and on the dyno, we reduced the level in the pan 1/2 quart on each pull, to a final level of 7.5 Quarts.

    That 750 HP motor picked up 14 HP after the first quart was out, and about 1/2 that after the second quart was removed. Spinning the crank in oil, or even getting it to close causes massive windage issues, and robs HP big time. When all was said and done we picked up almost 25 HP by reducing the oil level.

    In car testing on the strip taught us that we had to add that last half quart back in, to keep from flashing the oil pressure pro-light at the end of the strip, so we did that. But the gains were impressive, and a learning experience.

    It also illustrates that when it comes to oil pans, the dynamic forces of the moving car, in acceleration and braking, have to be considered.

    IN TA's 9 Quart steel pan, I never run more than 7 quarts. Same with SRE's alum deep A body pan.

    JW
    OK - Bringing this oldie but goodie back up.

    Jim, I run T/A's 6 quart pan for my engine. It's a 70 block with oil mods performed per your thread by the machine shop. T/A front cover/pump assembly and 5/8 pickup hole drilled out from 1/2" and T/A's 5/8 pickup. I run all 6 quarts and the stick reads full. Should I only be running 4-5 quarts or is 6 quarts needed for their 6 quart pan. I think the only mod that was not done was the rear oil pressure reading location. Still only reading from front of block. I do not race often, but I do beat the living snot out of this motor and so far no grenade. It's been about 4-5 years now. I've probably had it up close to 6 grand on many occasions. Actually I think it is 5 quarts not 6. I think the original capacity was 4 quarts right? So it this is one quart extra capacity I guess that would be 5 quarts.

    Here is the pan I am using. http://www.taperformance.com/proddet...rod=TA%5F1511D
    "Sometimes the place to be is right where you are"

    Ken Mild
    Proud member of The Stepchild Nation
    69 GS400; 462ci; 430hp, 530lb.ft.
    12.90 @108.45mph - Open diff. / 3.08 / BFG T/A's
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JjGIo3V40E

  16. #41
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    41

    Default Re: 400/430/455 Block ID, Prep and Oiling mods

    What great info to have access to for the first time Buick builder!!

    Thank you!!

  17. #42
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    Default Re: 400/430/455 Block ID, Prep and Oiling mods

    Yes a lot of good info.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming: "WOW! WHAT A RIDE!!"

  18. #43
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    Default Re: 400/430/455 Block ID, Prep and Oiling mods

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Mild View Post
    OK - Bringing this oldie but goodie back up.

    Jim, I run T/A's 6 quart pan for my engine. It's a 70 block with oil mods performed per your thread by the machine shop. T/A front cover/pump assembly and 5/8 pickup hole drilled out from 1/2" and T/A's 5/8 pickup. I run all 6 quarts and the stick reads full. Should I only be running 4-5 quarts or is 6 quarts needed for their 6 quart pan. I think the only mod that was not done was the rear oil pressure reading location. Still only reading from front of block. I do not race often, but I do beat the living snot out of this motor and so far no grenade. It's been about 4-5 years now. I've probably had it up close to 6 grand on many occasions. Actually I think it is 5 quarts not 6. I think the original capacity was 4 quarts right? So it this is one quart extra capacity I guess that would be 5 quarts.

    Here is the pan I am using. http://www.taperformance.com/proddet...rod=TA%5F1511D
    Hi Ken,

    Sorry, I missed this when you posted it..

    That 1511C pan is does make a 6 quart system, with filter, but your correct, the factory assumed about a quart in the filter and is why the 5 Quarts system with the stock pan, has a dipstick that says "4 Quart capacity" or words to that affect.

    I typically run 5 quarts still with that pan, not had a problem running out of oil or uncovering the pickup, that I am aware of. But I imagine you can put 6 in it and be just fine.

    The only difference in the pan is that it has a bigger sump, since it does not have the exhaust crossover cutout.

    JW
    Owner/operator

    Tri-Shield Performance
    Jim Weise
    Founder/Owner
    V-8 Buick.com
    320-629-8999

    Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
    Abraham Lincoln
    16th president of US (1809 - 1865)

  19. #44
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    Nov 2009
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    179

    Default Re: Bypass line

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Weise View Post
    Bypass line

    Purpose: To equalize the pressure at the front and rear of the main galley.

    Background: Back in the late 80's, when Mike Bucy and I first got together on to go drag racing, we were sitting around in his garage one winter day, and examining the oil system of our 455.. we had problems with hurting the number 7 rod bearing, it always looked more worn than the other ones. I surmised that it may be due to oil pressure dropping off at the end of the block. Now the factory combated this problem, by necking down the passenger side main galley, to maintain pressure at the rear of the block, but in applications where the engine regularly sees rpm in excess of 6000, and additional oil feed to the rear of the passenger galley, is beneficial.

    When to do: Any engine that will see serious duty, above 6000 rpm. Those are serious street/strip /drag race only motors, that produce their power up at those levels.

    Tools required :

    • 1/4" NPT tap
    • 7/8 drill bit




    Supplies required:

    Various -6 A/N stainless fittings, brass street elbow, as pictured.

    While I did not make this modification in our subject block here, I do have pictures that I will show, of previous motors done this way. The trick here is to keep the line in the bell housing, below the plane of the casting, to insure adequate line to flex plate/flywheel clearance. You typically must re-tap the hole in the block to allow your street elbow to be fully seated, for the best clearance.

    While there are a few different ways to do this, I prefer this line routing, as it allows for the use of any Starter Motor, and well as provides a balanced oil pressure gauge pickup point, at the back of the engine.

    Here are some pictures.



    You pick your oil up at the factory sender hole.. in this case it was tee'ed to allow for the feed for the Vortec Supercharger oil feed. The line then runs down the passenger valve cover, to the rear.



    We then turn it at the back of the engine, with a 90* hose end, and use a pressure adapter there, for the connection to the second line, that leads to the rear of the block.. I drill a hole the LH bell housing, and feed the completed line thru that hole.

    This is the fitting you will use at the rear of the passenger side galley.



    One note.. notice that on that picture of the motor I sent overseas, I used a number 3 braided line for the gauge.. this is the only type of oil pressure line you should be using! Nylon tube rubs thru and kinks, and copper lines tend to crack, small ones give slow oil pressure readings.

    This is the final oil mod i this series.

    While there is one exotic, direct overhead oiling system that can be done, it is out of the mainstream for 99% of the motors being built out there.

    I will discuss it briefly.

    That one involves plugging the front and rear of the passenger main galley, and drilling just a .060 hole to feed the lifters. The rear plug is in front of the feed for the # 5 main, so the bypass line is the only feed to the rear main. Number 1 main is fed as the factory intended. Number 2,3 and 4 mains are feed thru overhead lines, and distribution system, under the intake. We actually drill the main feed holes, all the way thru to the valley, and then press steel tubes in past the camshaft, to isolate the mains. This has to be done, because in a stock block, with a high lift roller cam, the wheel of the roller will expose the passenger side main, with the lifters that were available at the time.. TA now has a fully shrouded roller lifter, that eliminates this problem, as well as the new block with priority oiling for the mains. I can't imagine a scenario where I will ever do this again, but the know how and experience is there if I had to. This was 100% successful in this engine, that made in excess of 800 HP, and regularly ran to 7000 rpm. Similar systems in other engines have proven effective. Long time Buick Drag Racer Dave Mongeon has to be credited for the idea.

    Here is a picture of an engine with that system, along with it's belt driven oil pump.





    JW
    Jim,
    Sorry if this is a bit off topic but I recently saw a setup very similar to the one pictured with the tunnel ran and external oil pump parted out and for sale. How many of these type setups have you built? And how much do you charge for an intake like that? I am just wondering if I should have pursued it a little harder He wanted $1700 for the intake complete with carbs and linkage.
    Thanks
    Cliff
    Current Buicks
    1963 Riviera
    1972 Skylark
    Previous Buicks
    1964 Riviera
    1969 Wildcat 2Dr Coupe W/Buckets and full console
    1968 Wildcat 4Dr Donor car
    Previous other
    1974 Trans am
    1977 Trans am
    1974 Charger

  20. #45
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    Default Re: 400/430/455 Block ID, Prep and Oiling mods

    Cliff,

    That intake was done by Ken Seminole here in MPLS in the early 2000's.. I have worked with similar ones, cost on an intake like that is north of $2500..

    To Duplicate that whole setup, about 4K..

    It actually may have been that one, I know the guy who bought that car has it apart now as he went to a Tomahawk I heard, or was in the process of that.. and if he went a different way with it, he might be selling the intake and carbs..

    If it was that setup (would have been for sale on the east coast) then $1700 would be a steal.

    JW
    Owner/operator

    Tri-Shield Performance
    Jim Weise
    Founder/Owner
    V-8 Buick.com
    320-629-8999

    Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
    Abraham Lincoln
    16th president of US (1809 - 1865)

 

 
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