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  1. #101
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL
    Posts
    223

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Quote Originally Posted by doc View Post
    First, you gotta get your hands on a good intake manifold,,, this one is like me,,, old and weathered...

    and on this one I am going to portmatch it to the heads and grind off all the knuckle skinning casting flash on the outside.... you start by placing an old intake manifold gasket on the manifold with the ridges facing up toward the manifold,,, because the gasket is directional and has to be in the right location.

    I anchor the gasket in place with bolts in each end and then mark the inside edges with a marker...

    This is how it looks when the gasket is removed....

    then with a die grinder or drill motor and a carbide burr or stones proceed to grind over to the line in the runners...

    Now on to the Doc dual plane mod,,,first I put the manifold in the sand blasting box and cleaned it up,,,then I take a straight edge and mark the cuts with a marker...

    and then I make the first basic cuts with a die grinder and a 1/4'' abraisive cut off wheel... when you get down as deep into the manifold as possible, then switch over to a sawsall and a short blade with 14 teeth per inch because the coarser teeth cut faster in cast iron... and as you are cutting , lube the blade with tap majic or atf to keep it cool and speed cutting...

    after the partitions are removed then go to a 6 in. carbide burr to smooth up the sides, down into the manifold,,, this takes the most time,,, lube the burr with atf often to keep it cool and speed cutting,,, I cut my pressure back to about 40 psi... and put a fan on my compressor to keep it cool....

    after the sides are smoothed up, completely clean the manifold inside and out to get all the crud out of it and then paint it....
    Behold, the Doc dual plane.....

    Now if John , or one of you guys will stickey this thing ,,,, I will greatly appreciate it.....

    Can the dual plane mod be performed on 4 barrel manifold for a 350?
    Last edited by Curmudgeon; 09-10-2013 at 01:44 PM.

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lawrenceburg, Tn.
    Posts
    7,215

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    I dont see why not.....
    Doc "Widely unknown"

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL
    Posts
    223

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Thanks Doc for the quick response. I can't wait to give it a try!

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Oviedo, FL
    Posts
    44

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Hi Doc

    Can I assume similar benefits if converting to an EFI setup on a '66 425 manifold?

    Paul

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lawrenceburg, Tn.
    Posts
    7,215

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Paul,,,,,As far as the intake manifold ,,, yes,,,,the restriction would be,,, and that in itself opens up some more possibilities What type of efi ???? the individual port type or the modified carb type....if the individual port type, you could explore using a carb base for the flapper valve.... like a holley 3 barrel base or a 4500 base....to really get more air in..... and that is what we are talking about here ,,, a engine is nothing more than a glorified air compressor.... get the air in, use it, get it out.... anything you do to help that concept will make more power.... dont forget to make the air cleaner and the exhaust side more efficent.....

    If you are using the modified carb type efi... then you are pretty well stuck with the restriction that is in the unit....
    Doc "Widely unknown"

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    34

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    We'll I think it turned out pretty good. Thanks DOC
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #107
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lawrenceburg, Tn.
    Posts
    7,215

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Yep,,,, beautifull,,,, now hit that puppy with some simple green or sand blast it and paint it up and you are set.....
    Doc "Widely unknown"

  8. #108

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Pretty clean, and he was able to stay out of the heat riser wall (which is better than I ever did!). Nice job! From experience, I think you'll like the result.

    If it's a fair weather driver, consider tapping and plugging the exhaust heat at the carb flange riser holes. It'll save your carb and keep unnecessary heat outta your fuel.

    Consider going recalibrating the carb to compensate for addl. air. If you look at old posts, it'll show that I went up a jet size on the primaries, and down a rod size on the secondaries and had good results. I recall Doc thought at the time I'd just gotten lucky, and admittedly there was no science in it. I could have probably ben fine with strictly the rod change.

    And good monrning Doc. Hope all is well!
    Rhett

    65 Gran Sport Convertible
    71 GS455 - Unconfirmed Stage1
    73 Gran Sport Stage1 4spd
    72 Pontiac Grand Ville Convertible

    71 GS455 Conv. 4spd Tribute - Sold, now a Swedish citizen
    66 Corvair Monza 140 4spd Convertible - Sold, presumed Hurricane Sandy victim

  9. #109
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lawrenceburg, Tn.
    Posts
    7,215

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Awww, Rhett,,,, I looked all over my place for a money tree and did not find one...... other than that , everything is Jake....
    Doc "Widely unknown"

  10. #110

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    It's generally on the other side of the fence.....good to hear all's well.
    Rhett

    65 Gran Sport Convertible
    71 GS455 - Unconfirmed Stage1
    73 Gran Sport Stage1 4spd
    72 Pontiac Grand Ville Convertible

    71 GS455 Conv. 4spd Tribute - Sold, now a Swedish citizen
    66 Corvair Monza 140 4spd Convertible - Sold, presumed Hurricane Sandy victim

  11. #111
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    34

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Doc,

    It looks worse then it is I sprayed with WD after pressure washing. It will get blasted and painted up nice. Thanks!

    Rhett,

    I read your post and will most likely up the jets. Once I figure out what CAM to run. I'm thinking TA25 but not sure want to go that big (no real stall with dynaflow) I m rebuilding the entire drive train "63" riv, 401 in process, Dynaflow done, rear axle next.

    Thank
    Gary

  12. #112

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Good luck and keep us posted!
    Rhett

    65 Gran Sport Convertible
    71 GS455 - Unconfirmed Stage1
    73 Gran Sport Stage1 4spd
    72 Pontiac Grand Ville Convertible

    71 GS455 Conv. 4spd Tribute - Sold, now a Swedish citizen
    66 Corvair Monza 140 4spd Convertible - Sold, presumed Hurricane Sandy victim

  13. #113
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lawrenceburg, Tn.
    Posts
    7,215

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Gary,,, it is far better to slightly undercam it than to overcam it..... remember you are working on a engine that at the very , very max turns 5800 rpm.... it is a torque engine.... and torque is what actually moves a car.... you can have all the rpm's you want , but if torque aint there , the thing will fall on its face....
    Doc "Widely unknown"

  14. #114
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    34

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Thanks for the advise Doc. I've tried to search on more suggestions but struggling. I can't find a conservative cam. TA also has 20 series but not crazy about 470 equal lift. I have a brand new stock NOS cam, these are around 431 lift with 114 separation. Should I just run a tried and true stocker?

    thanks again
    Gary

  15. #115
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Bucks County, Pa
    Posts
    6,576

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Quote Originally Posted by flh73 View Post
    ...... I can't find a conservative cam. TA also has 20 series but not crazy about 470 equal lift. I have a brand new stock NOS cam, these are around 431 lift with 114 separation. Should I just run a tried and true stocker?
    Schneider has 262-70H and 270-80H grinds that are a little bigger than stock, both with 112 degree lobe centers.
    Figure a stock cam has 208-209 degrees duration at 0.050" lift., so the 262-70H cam is close to original on the intake buts adds a little lift/duration to the exhaust side.
    http://schneidercams.com/buick_nailhead-hyd.aspx
    Walt K
    (1)'66 GS Astro Blue, 13.41 et (2)'66 GS Saddle Mist, L76 Q-jet option, 1 of 132 (3)'66 GS Flame Red, Calif car (4)'66 GS Silver Mist, 4 speed (5)'66 Special, Flame Red, 300 (6)'79 Turbo Regal, 14.1 et (7)'65 GS 4 speed 'vert

  16. #116
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lawrenceburg, Tn.
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    7,215

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    The cam that Walt is suggesting, sounds really good.... of course my favorite is the old original 091 that aint available any more,,, unless you have one custom ground or get really, really lucky and find one like John did....but, I would take a second look at the Schneider cam.....
    When I say ''overcam'' ,,, I am talking about taking a all out dragster cam and putting it in a street driver that has 2:91 gears in it.... that sort of thing....
    Doc "Widely unknown"

  17. #117
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    I'm getting ready to do the dual plane mod, but I have a few questions before I start. Should I port match the intake runners if I'm not going to port match the head's ( I don't want to pull the heads to do that)? Should I cut down the center section or leave intact? Thanks!

  18. #118
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lawrenceburg, Tn.
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    7,215

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    No doubt you are hesitant about doing the heads because you are worried about the chips falling down into the ports...
    simple solution to that problem.... just fill the intake ports with arisole shaving cream, use the stock intake gaskets for a template,, put the ridges up,,, mark the inside diameter,,, do the cutting and then suck the shaveing cream and chips out with a shop vac... works like a charm.... and no,,no need to pull the heads.... do both the heads and the intake manifold ports,, you will be glad you did, later....

    leave the center divider in... do not cut it down any.... I set mine up for a holley 3 barrel carb and had to raise the carb up 3/8ths of a inch to clear the back barrel plate... and so made the adapter/heatshield just like the bottom plate of the carb...

    make any spacer under the carb just like the bottom plate of the carb... and ,,, leave the crossover heat passages alone ,, in fact make sure they are open and working,, you need the heat to vaporize the cat pee gas into a burnable vapor....

    Make your air cleaner to handle the increased air intake....
    Doc "Widely unknown"

  19. #119
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Quote Originally Posted by doc View Post
    No doubt you are hesitant about doing the heads because you are worried about the chips falling down into the ports...
    simple solution to that problem.... just fill the intake ports with arisole shaving cream, use the stock intake gaskets for a template,, put the ridges up,,, mark the inside diameter,,, do the cutting and then suck the shaveing cream and chips out with a shop vac... works like a charm.... and no,,no need to pull the heads.... do both the heads and the intake manifold ports,, you will be glad you did, later....

    leave the center divider in... do not cut it down any.... I set mine up for a holley 3 barrel carb and had to raise the carb up 3/8ths of a inch to clear the back barrel plate... and so made the adapter/heatshield just like the bottom plate of the carb...

    make any spacer under the carb just like the bottom plate of the carb... and ,,, leave the crossover heat passages alone ,, in fact make sure they are open and working,, you need the heat to vaporize the cat pee gas into a burnable vapor....

    Make your air cleaner to handle the increased air intake....
    Thanks Doc! Love the shaving cream idea!

  20. #120
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Quote Originally Posted by doc View Post
    No doubt you are hesitant about doing the heads because you are worried about the chips falling down into the ports...
    simple solution to that problem.... just fill the intake ports with arisole shaving cream, use the stock intake gaskets for a template,, put the ridges up,,, mark the inside diameter,,, do the cutting and then suck the shaveing cream and chips out with a shop vac... works like a charm.... and no,,no need to pull the heads.... do both the heads and the intake manifold ports,, you will be glad you did, later....

    leave the center divider in... do not cut it down any.... I set mine up for a holley 3 barrel carb and had to raise the carb up 3/8ths of a inch to clear the back barrel plate... and so made the adapter/heatshield just like the bottom plate of the carb...

    make any spacer under the carb just like the bottom plate of the carb... and ,,, leave the crossover heat passages alone ,, in fact make sure they are open and working,, you need the heat to vaporize the cat pee gas into a burnable vapor....

    Make your air cleaner to handle the increased air intake....
    You mentioned a carb spacer, I'm using an Edelbrock e-1400 600cfm carb so should I go with a square bore opening or a 4 hole opening?

  21. #121
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lawrenceburg, Tn.
    Posts
    7,215

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    With a ebrock carb all you have to do is put a heat shield under the carb and bolt it on.... I would do the Doc dual plane mod on the intake manifold while I had it off..... see the sticky.....
    I make my own spacer/heat shield because I use holley carbs and they have a different bolt pattern.... and I make them the same as the doc modded intake flange..... and I make them out of 3/8 hot rolled steel.... in your case , I would say just make sure of the size of the carbs bores and make the shield match them.... or you can make the shield match the doc mod intake,,, either one will work fine,,,,,
    Doc "Widely unknown"

  22. #122
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Got the dual plane mod and port matching done over the weekend. Pretty simply job, although it wore my arm out with the saw cutting out the manifold. Whole job took about 4 hours from disasembly, porting manifold, port matching, dual plan mod, putting it all back together and clean up. Haven't driven yet as I'm doing headers next. Big thanks to Doc for the shaving cream idea, worked great!

  23. #123
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Western Australia
    Posts
    429

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    I need to get a 4 BBL intake for my project 401. I know where there is one and it's had the Doc modification. It has been port matched to a set of heads which went with another engine. Would this intake be OK to use as is with my stock heads or will I have to now port the heads to match the manifold ?
    Ken. Perth, Western Australia.

    1929 Buick tourer 4 door
    1934 Buick pick up
    1954 Buick Roadmaster Riviera 2 door hardtop

  24. #124
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lawrenceburg, Tn.
    Posts
    7,215

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    well,, Ken,,,, if the guy doing the port matching used the stock intake gasket for a pattern,, it should work just fine....
    I have a manifold laying around my shop that is done and painted up,, in fact the one that is pictured in the sticky....
    I would take a hundred bucks for it.... not really trying to sell it though..... It is easy to port match the heads ,, just fill the intake runners with arisol shaving cream and do the grinding , the shaving cream catches the metal chips,, then you slurp the stuff out with your shop vac... no need to pull the heads... have someone hold the shop vac hose real close to the carbide burr while you are grinding... cools the tool and cuts the chips to a minimum....
    Doc "Widely unknown"

  25. #125
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Western Australia
    Posts
    429

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    PM sent.
    Ken. Perth, Western Australia.

    1929 Buick tourer 4 door
    1934 Buick pick up
    1954 Buick Roadmaster Riviera 2 door hardtop

 

 
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