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  1. #26
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    Jan 2003
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    hastings mn
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    247

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy Fair View Post
    Jake why you say polish rebuild?Here in Poland when we rebuild engine, gearbox or anything we are goin full way ,no shortcuts.To be honest my Riv had its engine rebuild in USA at shop called Messa Mashine and i have to say one thing, i havent seen such a crappy job ever before.Just to say 3 types of lifters,missed timing gears by 1 tooth,5 shims on one of head bolts,ruined rockers etc.And on top of this there is $4k bill just for labor......

    Sorry for off top.

    Peace Kacper.
    It's a saying. It means replace gaskets and paint. I'm polish myself and have done it. Family name is rybicki. Or ribitski in the old country
    JAKE HILDEBRANDT
    1963 buick lesabre 4dr ( on $$ hold)
    1968 chevy c10 turbo 383 sbc. 743 rwhp. No time slip yet

  2. #27
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Poland......far from anywhere
    Posts
    468

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Quote Originally Posted by bhambulldog View Post
    Dzien dobry. Jak sie mascz? (That's almost all the Polish I know)
    Well that's a lot.


    Quote Originally Posted by TAANK View Post
    It's a saying. It means replace gaskets and paint. I'm polish myself and have done it. Family name is rybicki. Or ribitski in the old country
    I didnt know that there is saying like this,Thanks,good to know.And Rybicki that would be correct spelling.

    All this is nothing comparing to this STICKY thread. Another inspiration from someone knowledgable.Again thanks DOC.

    Peace Kacper.
    Kacper


  3. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Mariposa, California
    Posts
    144

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Quote Originally Posted by doc View Post
    First, you gotta get your hands on a good intake manifold,,, this one is like me,,, old and weathered...

    and on this one I am going to portmatch it to the heads and grind off all the knuckle skinning casting flash on the outside.... you start by placing an old intake manifold gasket on the manifold with the ridges facing up toward the manifold,,, because the gasket is directional and has to be in the right location.

    I anchor the gasket in place with bolts in each end and then mark the inside edges with a marker...

    This is how it looks when the gasket is removed....

    then with a die grinder or drill motor and a carbide burr or stones proceed to grind over to the line in the runners...

    Now on to the Doc dual plane mod,,,first I put the manifold in the sand blasting box and cleaned it up,,,then I take a straight edge and mark the cuts with a marker...

    and then I make the first basic cuts with a die grinder and a 1/4'' abraisive cut off wheel... when you get down as deep into the manifold as possible, then switch over to a sawsall and a short blade with 14 teeth per inch because the coarser teeth cut faster in cast iron... and as you are cutting , lube the blade with tap majic or atf to keep it cool and speed cutting...

    after the partitions are removed then go to a 6 in. carbide burr to smooth up the sides, down into the manifold,,, this takes the most time,,, lube the burr with atf often to keep it cool and speed cutting,,, I cut my pressure back to about 40 psi... and put a fan on my compressor to keep it cool....

    after the sides are smoothed up, completely clean the manifold inside and out to get all the crud out of it and then paint it....
    Behold, the Doc dual plane.....

    Now if John , or one of you guys will stickey this thing ,,,, I will greatly appreciate it.....
    I wonder if you could do the same thing with a plasma cutter?
    1954 Buick Model 41D
    1955 Buick Model 46R
    1956 Buick Model 63R
    1998 Jeep Wrangler
    2005 Pontiac GP GT
    2007 Corvette Coupe

    BCA #6827
    GSCA #3839
    ROA #3244
    CHVA #LM133

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lawrenceburg, Tn.
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    7,215

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    dont know,,, try it,,,, that certainly would be easier and I probably would have tried that if I would have had a plasma rig.... have you ever cut cast iron with one..???? I think it would work for sure on the shallow side...
    Doc "Widely unknown"

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Paris, FRANCE
    Posts
    248

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Well....I'm going to follow Doc's sticky and port match my intake manifold...
    I just pulled out the old intake gaskets (which look like Doc's... thin metal) and compared them to my new gaskets which are thick and dont have the same look at all (they are BESTGASKET).
    My new ones are much thicker (too much ?)... They dont seem right (intake would sit higher).
    Should I use them .... or can I re-use my old ones (not sure that is a good idea either) ?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lawrenceburg, Tn.
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    7,215

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Those new gaskets will work just fine.... the thickness doesnt matter....
    Doc "Widely unknown"

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Paris, FRANCE
    Posts
    248

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Merci Doc !

    Really sorry in advance for probably what may be a really stupid question: do I need more than a Dremel to do the port matching ?
    I went to my local hardware store to look for a carbide burr and could only find rinky-dink ones for dremels !!!
    I assume that wont do it (never know). I'll try looking for a specialty hardware store (i guess the French parisians do not do a lot of grinding.... well cast iron grinding at least... the other the do plenty of I am sure )...

  8. #33
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    Jan 2004
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    Lawrenceburg, Tn.
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    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Well, RJ you can do the port matching with a dremel... but it will be really slow and will finally burn the motor up... I burned up 3 of them in short order.... they inhale the fine metal chips and short out on the inside and catch fire in your hand....
    you need a die grinder... and a 6'' long carbide burr.... and a welding glove for your left hand to guide the shaft.... electric die grinder probably would work good for you.. if you dont have access to a air compressor set up....
    Doc "Widely unknown"

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Twin Cities, MN
    Posts
    2,719

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Quote Originally Posted by doc View Post
    Well, RJ you can do the port matching with a dremel... but it will be really slow and will finally burn the motor up... I burned up 3 of them in short order.... they inhale the fine metal chips and short out on the inside and catch fire in your hand....
    you need a die grinder... and a 6'' long carbide burr.... and a welding glove for your left hand to guide the shaft.... electric die grinder probably would work good for you.. if you dont have access to a air compressor set up....
    I burned up my cheapo Dremel from Harbor Frieght when I did my intake. A pneumatic die grinder would be the best choice.
    Andy

    1962 Buick Invicta, 407 Nailhead,
    Nitrous, ST400 - Manual VB,
    V6 ST300 Converter, 3.23 Posi

    Viking Performance Suspension,
    Front DA C/O Kit, Rear DA Shocks

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Naples, FL
    Posts
    10,720

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy Fair View Post
    Jake why you say polish rebuild?Here in Poland when we rebuild engine, gearbox or anything we are goin full way ,no shortcuts.To be honest my Riv had its engine rebuild in USA at shop called Messa Mashine and i have to say one thing, i havent seen such a crappy job ever before.Just to say 3 types of lifters,missed timing gears by 1 tooth,5 shims on one of head bolts,ruined rockers etc.And on top of this there is $4k bill just for labor......

    Sorry for off top.

    Peace Kacper.
    Now you know what we have to put up with! Any jerk who wants to can call himself a technician. You have to have a license to replace a landing light bulb on an airplane here, but any idiot can install brakes, overhaul an engine, or replace steering parts on an automobile. Arraghh!
    John Codman
    Formerly owned Buicks:
    '33,'48, '51, '52, '54, '55 (3), '56, '60 LeSabre 3 sp stick.
    264 powered '53 Mercury
    322 then 264 powered 55 Ford
    264 powered '56 Chevy
    Presently - 431 nailhead powered '82 C-10

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    75

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Thanks Doc! I think first Docīs intake in Finland is ready soon...
    - Live Fast,Die Slow -

  12. #37

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    I used a 35.000 Harbor Frieght electric die grinder and some borrowed carbide burrs (which I had to replace because I chipped a couple of them, and THOSE arent cheap)

    I also used Dremel for the finish work, but I used it with a flexible extension kit... kept the tool out of the work area and the extension head gave me the ability to get further down the runners. The only downside was that whole set up kills the RPM of the dremel, and makes it less effective.
    Rhett

    65 Gran Sport Convertible
    71 GS455 - Unconfirmed Stage1
    73 Gran Sport Stage1 4spd
    72 Pontiac Grand Ville Convertible

    71 GS455 Conv. 4spd Tribute - Sold, now a Swedish citizen
    66 Corvair Monza 140 4spd Convertible - Sold, presumed Hurricane Sandy victim

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Paris, FRANCE
    Posts
    248

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    I took the Doc DP plunge !!!
    But was incapable of finding power equipment to do it.... so I just decided to cut the intake by HAND !!!
    Yes, that's the only solution I found.... And after 2 boxes of blades (cheap chinese I think), a lot of help from my step son (pic) and about 24 hrs of on / off wearing away at it between meals and family activities .... I finally got it !!!
    At one point I thought I would never get there. Darn thick metal (one side of the intake).
    I assume I should leave a little metal around the exhaust gas channel (so it does not mix with the intake).
    My friend's garage has a carbide burr to smooth the rest out...Then I'll do some port matching too.... Pfew, what a day. My arm feels numb
    Attached Images Attached Images

  14. #39
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    Jan 2004
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    Lawrenceburg, Tn.
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    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Well,,,,, RJ ,,, pard , you gotta be the nerviest, most determined guy that I have ever run across.... looks like you got it going on.....hang in there buddy,,,, you ought to get some kind of award.....leave your self 1/8 in around that heat riser hole so it will seal the gasket....
    Doc "Widely unknown"

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Houston / Galveston
    Posts
    4,113

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Any suggestions on a good electric die grinder with variable speeds? I originally planned to use my Dremel, but I don't want to kill it just yet.

  16. #41
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    Jan 2004
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    Lawrenceburg, Tn.
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    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Brian,,, while I was in Houston a while back I picked up a Makita electric die grinder but it did not have a variable speed... but you probably could make it variable with a sewing machine foot throttle..... or Makita probably makes one that is variable speed.... it really helps to cut the speed down some because it seems that the carbide burrs cut better , faster, and smoother in the cast iron if the speed is dropped some....I am sure there are other brands out there... but I dont know them at this time....
    Doc "Widely unknown"

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Houston / Galveston
    Posts
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    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Quote Originally Posted by doc View Post
    Brian,,, while I was in Houston a while back I picked up a Makita electric die grinder but it did not have a variable speed... but you probably could make it variable with a sewing machine foot throttle..... or Makita probably makes one that is variable speed.... it really helps to cut the speed down some because it seems that the carbide burrs cut better , faster, and smoother in the cast iron if the speed is dropped some....I am sure there are other brands out there... but I dont know them at this time....
    Thanks. I will check around and see what I can come up with.

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Carver, Oregon.
    Posts
    79

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    On my intake I have to ports in the back behind the carb they had plastic bolts in them. I swapped them out to XRP ones they are 1/8 size on Docs manifold i don't see them anyone know what they are for ?

  19. #44
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    Jan 2004
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    Lawrenceburg, Tn.
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    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Without a picture , it is difficult to tell,,, but I think you are actually talking about holes that are tapped by the factory for vacume fittings.... they are not bolt holes.... one is for the trans modulator vacume and the other is for the power brake vacume on some models....or on some models the dist. vac advance.... that is the only other holes that I have ever seen in a nailhead intake manifold for sure,, cant remember for the BBB....or the sbb....
    Doc "Widely unknown"

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Carver, Oregon.
    Posts
    79

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    makes sense so its a later model nailhead intake I have ? ill get pics tomorrow. man the guy who installed my 4 barrel did some odd stuff.

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Denmark, Europe
    Posts
    1,751

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    How about closing the heat riser holes???? Would that give some benefit?
    Jan

    1970 Buick GS Racecar "Bouncer" 1/8 6.32/110
    1970 Buick GS Street/Strip "The Stocker"

    GSCA#5013
    BPG#2222

  22. #47
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    Jan 2004
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    Lawrenceburg, Tn.
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    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    In a race car only,,, not on the street.... I tried it and the car did not run near as good on the street... runs much better with the heat in....
    Doc "Widely unknown"

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    elk city, ok
    Posts
    2,202

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    I'm curious. i did the dual plane mod and header extensions i gained .4 and 3 mph. but i didn't port match the runners. my heads aren't port matched so would i get air reversion if the posts on the intake are bigger than the head?
    Lonnie
    Black 70 skylark post car (Tyler's old car)
    Yellow 72 suncoupe 350/350 8.5.
    72 chevelle with 462 buick 9-9.5-1 estimated cr stock not stage heads lunati 68001 cam 800 cfm qjet. hooker headers and spx intake. th-400. 100 shot
    8.5 3.73 posi
    3200 coan (sold)

    1.78 60 ft 12.2 at 112 mph
    no traction

    first engine i built by myself. gotta love the 3126 cat..pshht.

  24. #49
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    Jan 2004
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    Lawrenceburg, Tn.
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    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Lonnie,,, you would get a disturbance of the flow alright ,,,with the air coming in from the carb to the intake , then to the head, at each junction the opening needs to get slightly bigger on the bottom side.... if only a few thousanths of a inch... that way the flow is ever ''expanding'' which is what you need to vaporize fuel...
    If the air is coming down a runner and suddenly gets to a place that is sharply smaller, that creates a ''eddy'' in the flow and restricts the volume some amount....
    Doc "Widely unknown"

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    elk city, ok
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    2,202

    Default Re: Doc's dual plane mod and port matching stky

    Good thing i left the ports alone. still .4 good improvement. didn't even adjust on the carb at all
    Lonnie
    Black 70 skylark post car (Tyler's old car)
    Yellow 72 suncoupe 350/350 8.5.
    72 chevelle with 462 buick 9-9.5-1 estimated cr stock not stage heads lunati 68001 cam 800 cfm qjet. hooker headers and spx intake. th-400. 100 shot
    8.5 3.73 posi
    3200 coan (sold)

    1.78 60 ft 12.2 at 112 mph
    no traction

    first engine i built by myself. gotta love the 3126 cat..pshht.

 

 
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