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  1. #26
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    554

    Default Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Yes, its a 20 hp tractor, takes me 2 hours every week to mow 4 acres.
    It used to have terrible low end torque and terrible fuel economy, and
    wouldn't idle below 1500 rpm. Now my 2 hours are much more pleasant,
    throttle is smooth, plenty of low end torque, it idles at 800 rpm, and I
    don't run out of gas (HURRAY). The system is identical to a V8, I only
    have 2 plug wires hooked up. Next one goes on my 403. Bruce Roe

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Santa Cruz CA
    Posts
    104

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    can anyone tell me if the LS1 coil packs are the self igniting and will work if controlled by the Megasquirt 3?
    Thanks!

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    1,614

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Quote Originally Posted by tt_skylark View Post
    can anyone tell me if the LS1 coil packs are the self igniting and will work if controlled by the Megasquirt 3?
    Thanks!
    Here is detailed information from the Megasquirt documentation

    http://www.megamanual.com/seq/coils.htm

    Paul
    Last edited by pmuller9; 08-24-2011 at 11:06 AM.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    1,614

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Here is more information on coil packs.

    http://www.roadmachine.fi/Buick/EFI4.html

    Paul

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    I never posted an updated picture here.

    Here is the setup mounted. The picture shows the missing tooth at 10*, before I pinned it in place, but I actually pinned it at 70*.






    And got this escort cranktrigger sensor to use.
    Last edited by TheSilverBuick; 02-08-2015 at 12:27 PM.
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Louisville,Kentucky 40229
    Posts
    4,296

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Thesilverbuick

    Have you got this running ? If not when do you expect to?
    Michael Evans

    "Universal means the part universally does not fit anything until you make it"


    Next Buick project...........1987 T-Type

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    I'm going to fire the engine up tomorrow or the day after with my conventional pickup (single tach wire on the pickup coil in a hollow HEI distributor) because of all the other changes I've made to the engine this go around (aluminum heads, roller cam, more compression). Once it's running and the drivability is tuned to my satisfaction I'll start work on fabbing up some angle iron brackets to bolt to the timing cover. TA was generous enough to put a threaded hole next to the timing tab to mount such a bracket too. Once satisfied with my bracket mounting I'll move the wire from the pickup coil to the crank trigger and see how it does.

    That's the process, time wise may get a little sketchy. I'm going on Drag Week in September, if it doesn't happen before then it'll happen afterwards. So either first week of September (big IF) or more likely end of September or in October at my leisure. It is still just a hobby
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Santa Cruz CA
    Posts
    104

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Will the GN cam sensors fit in the 350 timing cover?

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    I'm 99% certain it does. The 231 and 350 are virtually identical. I'm using a 231 distributor in my 455, and from looking a pictures online it looks like it'd drop right into a 350 and right into a 455 with a gear swap.
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Santa Cruz CA
    Posts
    104

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    can anyone tell about the wiring for a GN cam sensor, and what kind of sensor it is?
    Also any place to get a connector so I can wire it in from the stock connection?
    Thanks!

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    My go to EFI guy, while at Drag Week, gave me a crank sensor to try out. I forget the exact model number, but the brand name is Cherry

    This mount is probably going to be too wobbly, though I may try and weld a triangulated brace on it to stiffen it up. I have a couple other "designs" rolling around in my head to try out. I want something simple.

    So round one.

    From below.


    From above.
    Last edited by TheSilverBuick; 02-08-2015 at 12:53 PM.
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Bracket try number two. I think third time is going to be a charm. I have a slight revision of this one and I think I'll be happy with it.

    Square aluminum tubing with a piece of aluminum angle stock screwed to it. Notched and I can remove the sensor quickly from the side.


    I'll locktite the screws on the final design (since I can't weld aluminum..). I may do something slightly different with the nut at the end, or maybe with just washer to give a better grip on the stock for centering.


    It's rock solid like that. After tightening down the bolt, I put a wrench on the box tube and turn it to where I wanted to make the sensor perpendicular to the trigger wheel, then holding the wrench in place put a touch more torque on the bolt. I'm going to flip the angle piece to the bottom, which will allow me to read the timing mark at zero and more easily tighten the adjusting nuts and see the sensor gap. I'm contemplating a threaded stud loctited into the timing cover with the nut tightened against the timing cover then using a nylon/lock nut or something on the end to make sure it won't back off. Haven't decided yet. Thoughts?
    Last edited by TheSilverBuick; 02-08-2015 at 12:55 PM.
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    1,614

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    It's rock solid like that. After tightening down the bolt, I put a wrench on the box tube and turn it to where I wanted to make the sensor perpendicular to the trigger wheel, then holding the wrench in place put a touch more torque on the bolt. I'm going to flip the angle piece to the bottom, which will allow me to read the timing mark at zero and more easily tighten the adjusting nuts and see the sensor gap. I'm contemplating a threaded stud loctited into the timing cover with the nut tightened against the timing cover then using a nylon/lock nut or something on the end to make sure it won't back off. Haven't decided yet. Thoughts?
    If I'm reading this correctly, the new plan would have the box tube sitting against the nut on the timing cover.

    The nut does't provide as much surface area for the box tube to sit on as when it is against the timing cover and will not be as rigid.
    Also you are relying on the nut's flat surfaces to be parallel.

    Then you have to make sure there is enough room to slide the box tube off the threaded rod.

    I like your original plan using just a bolt better.

    BTW nice work!

    Paul

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Thanks!

    I'd be using a washer for the box tube to sit against. Like it is in the picture (which I'm also considering notching the tubing so it kinda locks around the washer on the corners). Also there is an even less guarantee that my cut's at either end of the box tube are straight, at least no more straighter than the nut. I've thought about using a longer length of tube and do away with the nut and just use a washer at the end, but I think the nut helps provide some compression back at the tube when tightening it down with out over stressing the aluminum threads on the timing cover. I could easily be mistaken in that though, I'm not an engineer.

    The issue with the first design is flex. And welding support bracing on it would only make it harder to install and remove. At least with the 1" stuff I have. I also should double the thickness of the plate to stiffen it up. It really didn't take much force to make it flex, where as this box design is definitely rigid. I could make another go at this design.
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Framingham, Ma
    Posts
    2,784

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    I have a really odd idea for you. How bout just making a bent bracket similar to the stock accessory mounting brackets?

    Have a flat plate that bolts right up against the block and comes forward towards the radiator (basically an L shape like the brackets that hold up shelves).

    Then at the front of the bracket have the side towards the crank wheel bend up into the position needed for the sensor (basically before the bending of the plate it'll look straight but with 1 side having extra material sticking out an inch or so which will end up being bent upwards).

    Then just weld a rod or triangluar piece between the upturned side and the flat bottom to prevent flexing. You could even weld some rod along the edge of the flat base as a ridge to provide extra strength without increasing the overall size (kinda like beadrolling sheet metal).

    If it's hard to understand I can draw up something with MS Paint of how it should look at the different stages of construction to give you an idea.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    1,614

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    I'm looking back at all the brackets we ever made to hold sensors on the engine and we always used 2 bolts so the bracket cannot turn with engine vibration.

    I'm looking at the pictures and notice that addition nearby bolts appear to be on different levels.

    The box is a very rigid design and does allow you to use a long bolt that is easy to get to with a wrench.
    Would it be possible to weld a small plate off the box to catch the bolt that appears to be about half way up the box near the timing bracket?

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Oooh, I like the idea of a locating piece that will give the support something to push against when tightening down while keeping it angled right. And you are right about only having a single bolt hole being the hang up. It's just a matter of I can't weld aluminum, but that doesn't stop me from screwing and glueing (that sounds dirty and show's I'm a hack ).

    bammax, I get what you are saying, perhaps on both sides of the plate I could weld a ridge, or perhaps even just a simple bead of weld would be sufficient, to firm up the first design. I can do that with the existing one I have pictured. If that works perhaps I can tack on a piece that locks it against the timing cover like pmuller9 suggest.

    Thanks for the ideas guys!
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    1,614

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    I can't weld aluminum, but that doesn't stop me from screwing and glueing (that sounds dirty and show's I'm a hack ).
    After screwing and glueing, and you get everything just right, can you take it to someone and have it welded?

    Paul

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Probably. The last local welder I used I wasn't too happy with, so I'd have to track down another one. I wonder if I could take it over to our welding department at work....


    **I noticed in the picture, I made another revision after these pictures were taken that I apparently forgot to take a picture of, but I doubled up the angle aluminum piece to stiffen it up and ground the ends flush with the other piece.
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Round 3!

    Stacked two pieces together and added an angle piece on the other side to push against the fuel pump to keep vibration from rotating the bracket, plus it's something to push against as I tighten it down to keep the angle right. I also notched the ends so the washers locate themselves and center the bolt.


    When I settle on a design I'll make a cleaner one and take it to work to see if I can get it TIG'd together, so no screws, etc.


    I think I'm going to go to a threaded stud for lateral adjustability. It seems when I notched the tubing, the slight amount of thickness reduction was enough for the bolt to bottom out before tightening up on the tube. No big deal, I just used a wrench on the nut and tightened it back up against the tube and it was rock solid again. You can see how straight I cut things =P


    From above. The locating tab against the fuel pump.


    From way above.


    Thoughts??
    Last edited by TheSilverBuick; 02-08-2015 at 12:56 PM.
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    1,614

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    When you are finished and get all the dimensions right, our shop could make the final piece.

    We would use solid hex stock, face off both ends in the lathe and drill the center for the bolt.
    Then weld on the sensor tab with a slotted hole for lateral adjustment.

    Paul

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Thanks for the offer. I think I'm going to try and get the weld shop here at work to weld one together for me. I won't need the bottom hanging off the sensor holding box tube if it's welded on. It's mostly hidden at the bottom of the engine, but if I can keep the vise teeth from chewing on the aluminum too bad or buff it out it won't look to bad if I take a bit of time to really straighten and clean up my cuts.
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Framingham, Ma
    Posts
    2,784

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Ok, I'm going to yell at you for a second.



    Why don't you elongate that top pad, spin it 90*, and bolt it on using the bolt next to the timing tab? That'll provide a second mounting point at a different plane which will prevent shifting or bouncing.

    Remember while it may be fine in the driveway, if you hit a construction zone at 40 things move around an awful lot.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    It's a pretty good idea, but I can't recall specifically, but doesn't that bolt go into the water jacket? I just got a full dose of antifreeze in the car (supposed to hit 22*F Wed!) and really don't want to open up the cooling system. The aluminum has a pretty low inertia load for 3 inches of length, it's not going to wobble much. I keyed the washers in to keep the tube from wobbling on the bolt.
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Framingham, Ma
    Posts
    2,784

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    You could just notch the center of the tab to form a U shape and slide it up under the bolt head, than retorque the bolt down again. That way the bolt is only being backed off a fraction of an inch (just slightly more than the thickness of the tab)

    I'm overly cautious and would hate to see what would happen at 3k rpms if that sensor stops getting an accurate signal all of a sudden. What exactly would happen if that sensor stopped reading at that rpm?

 

 
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