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  1. #76
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Cool, thanks for the heads up.
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    It's been a long while since I updated this but figured now is the time since I have two sets of 8 LS coils headed my way to truely go distributorless. I also have since converted the HEI pickup coil to a cam sensor. In well over a year since I installed the trigger wheel on the crank I've had zero issues with it, as well as the bit over a year with the sensor mount, also zero issues and still rock solid tach signal.

    The cam sensor mod I did to the HEI is pretty crude but works perfectly and I have been running sequential fuel injection since about May of last year, which was chronicled in my project thread here.

    First I marked which tooth I was going to keep on each the reluctor and pickup coil.


    Pulled the distributor apart.



    Pulled the pickup coil apart and ground all the teeth off except one. The picture of the reluctor didn't turn out but I did the same on it.



    Set the crank to ~30* before the missing tooth (3 teeth).



    Then lined up the pickup coil and reluctor. Done, the cam sensor flags the next missing tooth as TDC on #1.



    This works like a champ.

    Here is a tooth logger data log from the MegaSquirt III. I originally had the cam tooth on the wrong side of the missing tooth which showed up in these posted logs. Here is a zoomed out view. The Green line is the trigger point the MegaSquirt uses, and the blue is the tooth counter and you can see the gap where the missing tooth is. The red line at the bottom would have spikes if there was an error syncing up the cam with the crank sensor. Aka it only counts say 340 teeth between cam signal spikes.



    Zoomed in. You can see the cam signal is coming in near the end of the third tooth AFTER the missing tooth. Again I fixed this after I took the picture.



    Here is a view of the duration logger rather than the trigger point logger. You can pick if you want the tooth to be read on the rising edge or the falling edge. This is important if your cam trigger and missing tooth are set very close to each other, as is in some OEM applications.


    I'll update this again when I get to actually mounting up the 8 ignition coils, which I hope to do in the next month or so when I put my engine back together (heads are out for porting if you haven't kept track on my project thread).
    Last edited by TheSilverBuick; 02-08-2015 at 01:03 PM.
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    I got a couple of sets of coils in the mail today. One set for the Skylark, and a set for the OHC six engine. I also got a spare set of 4 for the Skylark.

    I had picked up a set of ventless (passenger side) valve covers for the 455 to mount coils on. Because they are ventless I have to figure out how to modify them to put oil in the engine and a breather on it. However, with the spare bracket I think I might be able to cut the bracket into three pieces, 1 coil, 2 coils, 1 coil, and make room around the breather and oil cap with out too much trouble. Could be easy. Of course I might look at ditching the coil bracket and simply make mounts on the valve covers to directly bolt the coils too. I think with some clean up these will look pretty good.



    Lines up pretty good with the spark plugs. Once cleaned up I think they'll look good!



    And for the heck of it, the Pontiac OHC six.


    Last edited by TheSilverBuick; 02-08-2015 at 01:06 PM.
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Nice work i hope it will work

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Cedar Rapids
    Posts
    151

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Working toward it and putting my TIG welder that I demo'd at the Oskosk airshow to good usevalve cover 1.jpgvalve cover 2.jpgvalve cover 3.jpg
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]'67 GS 4-sp: Richmond Overdrive, '65 2.73 12 Bolt, 255/50R16rear w/Baer 12" discs, 245/50R16front w/Baer 13" discs, Mild 455 Stage 1 by Gary Foster

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Who's got two thumbs and is jealous? THIS GUY!! That is way cool!

    What are your plans for adding oil to the engine and a breather? I am looking at removing the coils from the brackets and space the coils around the oil fill cap and breather. Though I do have a set of passengerside stamped steel covers I'm still contemplating using them and figuring out a way to add oil and a breather to them at some point.


    My crude metal tab mounting on my OHC engine if you haven't seen it.
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    15,245

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Kudos to you guys for working on this!!!!

    For the Buick V8 - think about oil fill and maybe even crankcase ventilation behind the carburetor/throttle body where the stock PCV is located, if the valve covers are no longer an option. There's still lots of room on the covers for ventilation, though...think about it and just don't worry about the vent facing "up".

    Devon
    Fuel & Brake Systems Engineer
    "I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong." - Feynman
    "Good data is precious. The problem I have is when some damned fool fails to use it properly." - Slingerland

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Cedar Rapids
    Posts
    151

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaWildcat View Post
    Kudos to you guys for working on this!!!!

    For the Buick V8 - think about oil fill and maybe even crankcase ventilation behind the carburetor/throttle body where the stock PCV is located, if the valve covers are no longer an option. There's still lots of room on the covers for ventilation, though...think about it and just don't worry about the vent facing "up".

    Devon
    Exactly the plan and easy with the SPX manifold
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]'67 GS 4-sp: Richmond Overdrive, '65 2.73 12 Bolt, 255/50R16rear w/Baer 12" discs, 245/50R16front w/Baer 13" discs, Mild 455 Stage 1 by Gary Foster

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Two and a half years later I can finally put some closure on this thread

    Driver's side. Ran into the space issue with the oil cap and breather. I have a second passenger side cover with no holes that I can eventually install the coils on and replace this one, but right now I don't have the time to R&D a replacement for the oil fill cap and breather. For now coil #7 resides on top of the breather


    And the passengerside.


    And it finally running with no distributor! Case closed.
    Last edited by TheSilverBuick; 02-08-2015 at 01:08 PM.
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    And just a little showing off, because it's high tech in my old Buick, the digital dash cluster for those who haven't seen it yet
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    1,477

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Dude... Awefrikinsome!
    Sent from the dust in front of you!

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    Posts
    538

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Nice job!
    Eric B

    1972 GS 350 4sp Convertible (running 455)
    1972 GS 350 Hardtop (running 455)
    1971 Olds Cutlass - turbo LS conversion - project underway!
    1995 Trans Am - Supercharged and FAST
    1997 Chevy 3500 Supercharged

  13. #88
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Thanks
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kalama Washington
    Posts
    776

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    congrats randal looks awesome, and you do some fantastic work.
    Dan Lemyre
    75 skylark stage 2 455 (Bittersweet)
    2002 Trans am Ws6
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=181075

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Thanks Dan!
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  16. #91
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    PGH,PA, USA
    Posts
    4,930

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Who makes those digital sweep gauges?
    Mike aka BiZnO
    72 twinturbo Skylark

    Buick 350 Inspirational members to me..
    TuBBeD for his 551+ N/A build
    BillMah52 First to take a 350 where no man has gone before
    Justa350 First to hang a pair of turbos and cause Kaos
    GSJohnny First to max out the bore at .090 and his .075 and have engines that actually breath well N/A!
    Bobb Makley First well known to Stroke a 350
    Ken Betts, Hopefully the guy to pull-off 350 AL heads :-D

  17. #92
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Digital sweep gauges? If you are talking about the set up in my Skylark its a monitor behind the dashboard with a compact computer running the MegaSquirt tuning software that allows customized gauges.
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  18. #93
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    PGH,PA, USA
    Posts
    4,930

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSilverBuick View Post
    Digital sweep gauges? If you are talking about the set up in my Skylark its a monitor behind the dashboard with a compact computer running the MegaSquirt tuning software that allows customized gauges.
    ahha clever guy
    Mike aka BiZnO
    72 twinturbo Skylark

    Buick 350 Inspirational members to me..
    TuBBeD for his 551+ N/A build
    BillMah52 First to take a 350 where no man has gone before
    Justa350 First to hang a pair of turbos and cause Kaos
    GSJohnny First to max out the bore at .090 and his .075 and have engines that actually breath well N/A!
    Bobb Makley First well known to Stroke a 350
    Ken Betts, Hopefully the guy to pull-off 350 AL heads :-D

  19. #94
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Some background R&D pictures.

    It's a USB connected and powered monitor.


    Cut the cluster plastic with a dremel, stuck the monitor in it. You can see the large washer with rubber insulator that has the bolt that goes to the back of the monitor to hold it in place.


    The Windows 7 car computer mounted in the trunk. Has a signal wire that powers it up when the key is turned on and shuts down about a minute after the car is turned off. I have it go into and out of hibernation mode.
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  20. #95
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    1,031

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    One thing I have never really liked about distributeres is the back lash in the dist gear to the cam gear. Will that have any effect in what your doing?
    Anson Favalessa

  21. #96
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Quote Originally Posted by HotRodRivi View Post
    One thing I have never really liked about distributeres is the back lash in the dist gear to the cam gear. Will that have any effect in what your doing?
    Huh? No? The timing chain tension (or lack of) has far more influence on conventional timing wander than the back lash ever should. As far as driving a cam sensor the amount of accumulated error means nothing. I have it trigger approximately 30 before the missing tooth on the crankshaft. The cam sensor is just a flag to the ECU to say the next missing tooth is the power stroke of the #1 cylinder. Rather it triggers 179 sooner or 29 later, it doesn't matter too much, as long as the trigger comes before the missing tooth. 30 is just good conventional practice, and actually it only needs to trigger it once (during cranking the engine) and the ECU keeps track of the tooth count from there and actually completely ignores the cam sensor. aka I can disconnect the cam sensor after start up and it will still run sequentially without a hiccup.
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  22. #97
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    1,031

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    if running a bronze gear as it wears there is a point whare there is not enough gear. The oil pump pressure is supposed to take up the slack on a good gear. Timing cover and gasget thickness will determing the back lash of the gear. Just wondering if you ever encountered too much backlash. I had a block that had worn into the block at the cam to block thrust surface. I would wear out a bronze gear in about a yr. I did not have a high volume oil pump.
    Anson Favalessa

  23. #98
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    I have never ran a bronze gear. My current engine runs a roller cam with a bearing on the nose and shims to control cam walk. Vertical movement is controlled by simply shimming the distributor between the housing and gear. Timing chain stretch is still going to be the number one variable change in timing on the distributor if everything is set up right. If you are eating distributor gears there are other issues at play and I would consider it an unhealthy condition. In any case, for a cam sensor, the tolerance allowed and still work 100% perfectly is nearly 180 of distributor rotation. Several teeth off setting the distributor in and it'll still work perfectly.
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  24. #99
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ely, NV
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    I repaired the picture links to the technical pictures related to going distributorless on the Buick 455.
    The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 2 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011!), '72 Centurion Conv't - 455w/TH400, '67 T-bird 4Dr (suicide) w/428, MegaSquirt 1 & C6. '69 Firebird replaced, now building a Pontiac Turbo L6!

    My Skylark thread
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=208168
    My Pontiac OHC Six thread.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219250

    I'm just a regular guy that fuel injected an old Buick and Thunderbird.

  25. #100
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: Anyone gone Distributorless?

    Wow just wow!!! Amazing work! I'm planning the same just few years later and with other stuff:

    HP EFI retrofit kit
    SPX intake
    LS2 truck Melco coils

    I think now its a lot easier

    How runs your setup? still fine?

 

 
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