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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    East Northport Long Island N.Y
    Posts
    2,350

    Red face Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    Are you guys running a Buick type rocker shafts ? or a Chevy type system ?
    Eric
    NYCTA
    Past Buick's
    84 regal 462 11.78@112 (pump gas) sold in 99
    66 SKYLARK
    70 SKYLARK 462
    71 SKYLARK 350
    72 SKYLARK 350 CUSTOM
    72 RIVIERA
    -------------------------
    70 Skylark 350 Formally known as Jessica Rabbit (Jessie)
    Someday a 464 BBB STG-2 TE Heads EZ-EFI Borg Warner T-10 Trans 3.73 gear...
    350 ported heads 12.1 Trying to break 11's N/A future project
    2001 Regal GS forsale
    BPG Member 1232
    North Eastern Chapter Member 235

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    738

    Default Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    We are going to build a new bullet proof set up. When they are done we will post pictures. It will not be one shaft like the Buick nor the chevy type. We are trying to make everything bullet proof, but explosion proof, well that is another story we hope not to read. We are trying to have every part made available through TA Performance. They are helping with the development of each part so they can be made available to the performance enthusiast. We are hoping that what we are doing will give a baseline for all who follow that they may take what we are doing to the extreme.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    East Northport Long Island N.Y
    Posts
    2,350

    Red face Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    I can't wait to get my hands on a TA block
    Eric
    NYCTA
    Past Buick's
    84 regal 462 11.78@112 (pump gas) sold in 99
    66 SKYLARK
    70 SKYLARK 462
    71 SKYLARK 350
    72 SKYLARK 350 CUSTOM
    72 RIVIERA
    -------------------------
    70 Skylark 350 Formally known as Jessica Rabbit (Jessie)
    Someday a 464 BBB STG-2 TE Heads EZ-EFI Borg Warner T-10 Trans 3.73 gear...
    350 ported heads 12.1 Trying to break 11's N/A future project
    2001 Regal GS forsale
    BPG Member 1232
    North Eastern Chapter Member 235

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Escondido, CA
    Posts
    1,259

    Default Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    I can't wait to see these cylinder heads. We need a "big chief" style head to take full advantage of these awesome TA blocks..... If the heads you guys are making do get to TA and are offered to the Buick community, they sound like the price would be sky high..I am very interested though, pics. and flow numbers will be what I need to see...
    Gary G.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    East Northport Long Island N.Y
    Posts
    2,350

    Default Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    Quote Originally Posted by badbuik View Post
    I can't wait to see these cylinder heads. We need a "big chief" style head to take full advantage of these awesome TA blocks..... If the heads you guys are making do get to TA and are offered to the Buick community, they sound like the price would be sky high..I am very interested though, pics. and flow numbers will be what I need to see...
    Gary G.
    DITTO !!!
    Eric
    NYCTA
    Past Buick's
    84 regal 462 11.78@112 (pump gas) sold in 99
    66 SKYLARK
    70 SKYLARK 462
    71 SKYLARK 350
    72 SKYLARK 350 CUSTOM
    72 RIVIERA
    -------------------------
    70 Skylark 350 Formally known as Jessica Rabbit (Jessie)
    Someday a 464 BBB STG-2 TE Heads EZ-EFI Borg Warner T-10 Trans 3.73 gear...
    350 ported heads 12.1 Trying to break 11's N/A future project
    2001 Regal GS forsale
    BPG Member 1232
    North Eastern Chapter Member 235

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Space Coast Florida
    Posts
    1,791

    Default Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    Gary and Eric I will try to find the flow numbers for the water jacketed heads we used for the mock up. We had to get past a few of the inevitable geometry issues. The new heads are solid with no water jackets so we will have a lot of aluminum we can remove to straighten things out, which will increase the flow substantially.
    We need to keep a fair amount of material separating the ports so we don't have any issues with the fuel we are using.
    I will put up the numbers when I find them. I will see if I can find a picture of the rocker assemblies similar to what we are using.
    Too much running around at the moment for work.
    I wish I did not have to earn a living (insert sponsor plug here). I am so into this project, I really enjoy working on it, and I truly can't wait to drive it
    John Everett

    "Not all Boats are slow Boats"

    66 Wildcat GS 2x4 425 original
    GSCA# 1966
    66 Wildcat GS convertible
    Dragsters;
    221" 1973 S&W rear engine Blown Fuel Nailhead
    200" FED 462" Cast iron block, Hilborn 4-port
    148" Injected Nailhead FED

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Space Coast Florida
    Posts
    1,791

    Default Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    The Stage 4 heads (water cooled) we used in the mock-up were 2.3" intake that flowed 369 cfm @ .600.
    The exhaust valve was a 1.80" and flowed 284 @.600 .
    The exhaust valves we are using are larger, and with no water jackets our goal of 300 cfm + with the exhaust is very achievable.
    Last edited by JESUPERCAT; 08-31-2011 at 10:48 PM.
    John Everett

    "Not all Boats are slow Boats"

    66 Wildcat GS 2x4 425 original
    GSCA# 1966
    66 Wildcat GS convertible
    Dragsters;
    221" 1973 S&W rear engine Blown Fuel Nailhead
    200" FED 462" Cast iron block, Hilborn 4-port
    148" Injected Nailhead FED

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Escondido, CA
    Posts
    1,259

    Default Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    Well, I hoped for better numbers.... My TE's flow those numbers. These were "mock up" heads, the solid ones should be better, right?? I know a great head porter in Orange County California.... I had pretty high expectations, the TA block met these, now as I said we need heads... I'm still very interested in your project. Still would like to see pictures, whenever.
    Gary G.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Space Coast Florida
    Posts
    1,791

    Default Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    Gary The numbers will be much better than these.. This was the average number of the three flow test done at three different companies, in three totally different locations. We did this so we would have a base line to test against. As you know there can be a good/bad amount of variation in test numbers. I did not feel it reasonable to give the high numbers on this thread as as this would sound like an ad or something .
    We are trying to give an honest and practical play by play without exaggerating the numbers.
    As we proceed with the heads we will give the flow number average not the max. Trying to keep this realistic .

    I will post some pictures soon after I put my hands on the heads...
    John Everett

    "Not all Boats are slow Boats"

    66 Wildcat GS 2x4 425 original
    GSCA# 1966
    66 Wildcat GS convertible
    Dragsters;
    221" 1973 S&W rear engine Blown Fuel Nailhead
    200" FED 462" Cast iron block, Hilborn 4-port
    148" Injected Nailhead FED

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    Posts
    1,266

    Default Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    Quote Originally Posted by badbuik View Post
    Well, I hoped for better numbers.... My TE's flow those numbers.
    This is why we don't make Stage 3 or 4 heads anymore, our Stage 2 TE's have improved so much that they're at the level of the 3/4's but don't require any of the special parts. Much more practical compared to years ago when 3/4's were the king of the crop!
    < Click to Visit

    Quote: "I would love to use the TA Aluminum 455 block and a set of TA Stage 2 TE heads to build a 700 CI engine
    that looks stock, idles smooth and makes enough torque to stop the rotation of the earth"

    Michael Tomaszewski Jr.
    Website/Catalog/Ad Management

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Posts
    1,205

    Default Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    Gary, remember, we don't race flow benches and flow benches vary greatly!!!

    Mike, would you happen to know the difference in the port volume (in cc's) of the Stg2 TEs vs the Stg 4?

    The engine experts out there say that after a certain CID port volume is more important than flow numbers? In both naturally aspirated and forced induction engines.
    John R. Zerucha
    70 Skylark @2800 lbs
    8.78 @ 153 mph 535 Stage 4 2850 lbs
    8.97 @ 149 mph 523 Stage 4
    9.36 @ 143 mph 464 Stage 2
    9.77 @ 135 mph 464 Stage 1
    88 Hawk @2350 lbs
    8.06 @ 167 mph 535 Stage 4
    1973 Buick Apollo (In Process)
    Tomahawk 572 (In Process)

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Space Coast Florida
    Posts
    1,791

    Default Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    Quote Originally Posted by Staged70Lark View Post
    The engine experts out there say that after a certain CID port volume is more important than flow numbers? In both naturally aspirated and forced induction engines.
    John this is also one of the reasons we chose the displacement we did. We went with what we felt the heads could handle. Our compression level will also allow a large tuning window (fuel volume,air pressure, and to a smaller degree timing) with the fuel we are using.
    I am willing to bet we will have one of the smallest displacement Tomahawks out there
    John Everett

    "Not all Boats are slow Boats"

    66 Wildcat GS 2x4 425 original
    GSCA# 1966
    66 Wildcat GS convertible
    Dragsters;
    221" 1973 S&W rear engine Blown Fuel Nailhead
    200" FED 462" Cast iron block, Hilborn 4-port
    148" Injected Nailhead FED

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    East Northport Long Island N.Y
    Posts
    2,350

    Red face Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    are you guy's limited to 500 CI ?
    Eric
    NYCTA
    Past Buick's
    84 regal 462 11.78@112 (pump gas) sold in 99
    66 SKYLARK
    70 SKYLARK 462
    71 SKYLARK 350
    72 SKYLARK 350 CUSTOM
    72 RIVIERA
    -------------------------
    70 Skylark 350 Formally known as Jessica Rabbit (Jessie)
    Someday a 464 BBB STG-2 TE Heads EZ-EFI Borg Warner T-10 Trans 3.73 gear...
    350 ported heads 12.1 Trying to break 11's N/A future project
    2001 Regal GS forsale
    BPG Member 1232
    North Eastern Chapter Member 235

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Space Coast Florida
    Posts
    1,791

    Default Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    We are limited for Nostalgia Top Fuel.
    Lets just say we are much less than that though.
    John Everett

    "Not all Boats are slow Boats"

    66 Wildcat GS 2x4 425 original
    GSCA# 1966
    66 Wildcat GS convertible
    Dragsters;
    221" 1973 S&W rear engine Blown Fuel Nailhead
    200" FED 462" Cast iron block, Hilborn 4-port
    148" Injected Nailhead FED

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Escondido, CA
    Posts
    1,259

    Default Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    The stgae 2 tes' are great, and true we don't race flow benches....But we all know that now that we have an awesome block, we will need even better heads, like I said, some big chief style would be great. I'm building my aluminum nitrous "bullet" it will make great power, but like I said better heads equal better power. The guy who just did some touch up port work would like to open the ports even more, bigger cubic inch motors need more port area, he wants me to look into offset intake rockers to see if this is feasiable... Honestly, I 've also talked to a buick guru, kicked from this board, and he said the gains aren't really worth the cost...
    I will follow this thread, it is an awesome project, and the end product could show "the others" how the Buick can preform...
    Gary G.

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Space Coast Florida
    Posts
    1,791

    Default Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    Quote Originally Posted by badbuik View Post
    it is an awesome project, and the end product could show "the others" how the Buick can preform...
    Gary G.
    Gary this is just one of the Goals we have.

    On a related note I will be driving a blown Donovan front engine dragster this weekend to finish up my NHRA Fuel license http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=235386.

    To license in one of these cars is around $500.00 a pass .
    I have a great friend that needed a new driver and I was lucky enough to have been chosen . I will let you know how it goes .

    I will be picking up the Tomahawk this coming week to start the exhaust, oil pan and overall mock-up in the Supercat. I will post some pictures as we progress.
    John Everett

    "Not all Boats are slow Boats"

    66 Wildcat GS 2x4 425 original
    GSCA# 1966
    66 Wildcat GS convertible
    Dragsters;
    221" 1973 S&W rear engine Blown Fuel Nailhead
    200" FED 462" Cast iron block, Hilborn 4-port
    148" Injected Nailhead FED

  17. #67
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Peoria, Arizona
    Posts
    2,078

    Default Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    Hey Ken & John, are you going to run the NHRA Nostagia Top Fuel class? Do you think the Buick head will hold up with the stock number of head bolts and the factory pattern? Can you even add the extra bolts TA's been doing for years?
    Craig
    71 GS 455 503 HP (flywheel)
    Best ET - 11.770 @112 mph,
    Best 60' - 1.583 60' on slicks w/ 3.55 rear

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    738

    Default Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    What a great question. Remember the early Hemi's only had 10 bolts but were a smaller bore and they did work. However our solid S2 TE heads that we had cast will have an extra row of bolts top and bottom. We are considering making them 7/16" instead of the 3/8". Since we are already working on the next generation head, we will try to work in some changes before the ones we have are ported. Some will be surprised at the size of the intake valve, but there is a method to our madness and the next generation will be bigger. We are not running a 4.5" bore in this effort but we have the right sleeves in the block to do that later. As far as Nostalgia Top Fuel, That is the eventual plan. We are already working on pro's in that field for their help. Parts manufactures and engine tuners. It looks like John will be driving for one of them this weekend. Most of you probably don't know that I ran Kenne-Bell back in the 70"s with engine builder Doug Jones. He always gives great wisdom when it comes to racing and it is something all Buick racers should listen to. He says "GET WITH THE TOP PROS FOR HELP" they have already done what we want to do. That means you will rub shoulders with the Chrysler, Chevy and Ford guys. So what's wrong with using the secrets from the enemy? Buick now has a block that will take anything we can throw at it and a solid head that is very strong. Next step.... solid billet head, of course we are working on it. We will try to have it gun drilled for the strip racers who need some water flow to get back to the pits. Again watch the pros and listen! ken ps. Mike at TA has been doing a heck of a job for a long time. TA needs all our support and encouragement. Call TA order your parts, be patient and thank him and his crew for making this possible!

  19. #69
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Peoria, Arizona
    Posts
    2,078

    Default Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    Thanks for the reply Ken, I was bragging to a friend at work about your project and he always does what he can to shoot the Buick down, in good fun, and he said you have to use the factory head bolt pattern to run NHRA Nostalgia Top Fuel class, which prompted my question. Do you know if this is true? Can't wait to see more pictures and results for the dragster!
    Craig
    71 GS 455 503 HP (flywheel)
    Best ET - 11.770 @112 mph,
    Best 60' - 1.583 60' on slicks w/ 3.55 rear

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Space Coast Florida
    Posts
    1,791

    Default Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    Craig if I remember correctly "Factory style" heads must be able to bolt on to the block.(I will ask at Tech this weekend and let you know). Many people have additional head studs and bolts trying to keep their heads on. Sometimes with little to no success . Sometimes when bad things are going to happen they just happen regardless of your intentions.
    I will email a picture to you next week from the team I am driving for that launched a blower and injector assembly into the pits as they went through the traps at the end. One of the 417 heads was still connected . This is why they have so many restraint systems today.

    The track we will do a lot of our testing at will be SpeedWorld in AZ. We will post when we are going out so you can bring your friend.

    Eric yes the limit is 500 ci. for the class. I had to check .
    The people that want the engine to last(budget minded racers) use large blocks sleeved down and stroked accordingly to be in the 400ci range. Not the fastest out there, but out there, waiting for the guy in the other lane to break or have an issue. We will be able to in crease our potential ci. size a lot if needed as we go along.

    Heading to Bakersfield later today I am hoping to run a 5.99 or 225+ this weekend. I will try to get some video clips from the weekend to post in the bench.
    John Everett

    "Not all Boats are slow Boats"

    66 Wildcat GS 2x4 425 original
    GSCA# 1966
    66 Wildcat GS convertible
    Dragsters;
    221" 1973 S&W rear engine Blown Fuel Nailhead
    200" FED 462" Cast iron block, Hilborn 4-port
    148" Injected Nailhead FED

  21. #71
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Victoria, BC Canada
    Posts
    143

    Default Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    Wow, I've got goosebumps just reading about this.
    1971 Buick Stage 1 iron heads, 11.02 1/4 mile-engine only,
    (now going to Stage 2 with solid roller, and 4L80E trans)
    Thank you, Larry Johnson
    Westshore Transmissions Ltd.
    1081 Dunford Ave.
    Victoria, BC V9B 2S4
    (866)459-7070 or (250)478-7070
    ATRA Certified Journeyman Transmission Tech
    www.westshoretrans.com
    "Where Quality is Automatic and Good Service is Standard”

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Peoria, Arizona
    Posts
    2,078

    Default Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    Good luck John Yeah, when you get back to Speedworld let me know, I'll be there!
    Craig
    71 GS 455 503 HP (flywheel)
    Best ET - 11.770 @112 mph,
    Best 60' - 1.583 60' on slicks w/ 3.55 rear

  23. #73
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Space Coast Florida
    Posts
    1,791

    Default Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    Craig we had a blast last weekend. 2nd pass 2.80sec. -330 ft launch went to about 450 ft and let off and coasted to a 7.2 - 1/4 mile I think I found my next job .
    I will put a thread in the Bench later today with more details and picture/video.
    1 more pass for my TF license......
    Thanks for the good luck
    John Everett

    "Not all Boats are slow Boats"

    66 Wildcat GS 2x4 425 original
    GSCA# 1966
    66 Wildcat GS convertible
    Dragsters;
    221" 1973 S&W rear engine Blown Fuel Nailhead
    200" FED 462" Cast iron block, Hilborn 4-port
    148" Injected Nailhead FED

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Space Coast Florida
    Posts
    1,791

    Default Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    Well we are cranking along with the Tomahawk now .
    Actually we are focused on the head development at the moment. Which is starting to come together. I will put up a thread in the next few days as to what will be going on with that aspect of the build.

    Here are a few pictures of the new crank from Crower/TA Performance I picked it up yesterday while in Phoenix. Thanks Mike.
    I am guessing it is one of the first Crower cranks for a Buick that is labeled "Blown Nitro" on the build card
    Attached Images Attached Images
    John Everett

    "Not all Boats are slow Boats"

    66 Wildcat GS 2x4 425 original
    GSCA# 1966
    66 Wildcat GS convertible
    Dragsters;
    221" 1973 S&W rear engine Blown Fuel Nailhead
    200" FED 462" Cast iron block, Hilborn 4-port
    148" Injected Nailhead FED

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    15,146

    Default Re: Tomahawk Dragster

    Awesome. Keep us posted. I'm an armchair drag racer right now but appreciate your pursuit.

    Dvon
    Fuel & Brake Systems Engineer
    "I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong." - Feynman
    "Good data is precious. The problem I have is when some damned fool fails to use it properly." - Slingerland

 

 
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