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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,843

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    Any luck with this Rhett? Thanks!
    Anthony
    73 GS 455 - UNDER RESTORATION!
    73 GS Stage 1
    73 GS 350 4 speed SCO Midnight Gray Paint
    71 Porsche 911E

  2. #27

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    Anthony - PM me with your e-mail address and I'll send you the tracing...

    Thanks,
    Rhett

    65 Gran Sport Convertible
    71 GS455 - Unconfirmed Stage1
    73 Gran Sport Stage1 4spd
    72 Pontiac Grand Ville Convertible

    71 GS455 Conv. 4spd Tribute - Sold, now a Swedish citizen
    66 Corvair Monza 140 4spd Convertible - Sold, presumed Hurricane Sandy victim

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Gahanna, Ohio
    Posts
    708

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    Rhett,

    The tracing was waiting for me when I got home from Bowling Green on Saturday evening. Haven't had a chance yet to get with Pete Serio to see how it compares with the shifter and handle he has.

    Thanks again.

    Larry
    BPG #1081
    GSCA #423
    70 GSX-Yellow #281
    70 GS455 Conv-Seamist Green, white top & interior
    72 GS Stage 1-Flame orange,white bucket interior
    73 Stage 1 - 4 speed, Black w/ white Interior ( Sold).
    86 GN - Original pwner
    69 Z-28 - Owned since 1983

    Life is like a mirror. If you frown at it, it frowns back; If you smile, it returns the greeting.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,843

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    Now that we got the shifter squared away does anyone know if any 4-speed parts from earlier cars are similar to the 73 ones? Which ones are different?

    I'm looking to do a 4-speed swap in one of these 73s. Anyone know if all the parts The Parts Place Inc. provides are the correct 73 replacement parts?

    And what are all of your guys using...an M-21?
    Anthony
    73 GS 455 - UNDER RESTORATION!
    73 GS Stage 1
    73 GS 350 4 speed SCO Midnight Gray Paint
    71 Porsche 911E

  5. #30

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    My car has an M-20 wide ratio from the factory.

    As I understand it, a wide ratio box is preferable in a larger, torquier car with streetable gears. A close ratio box works better in a car where the revs will be up most of the time, such as a high winding SBC or a car with 4.10 gears. I might be wrong, but thats what I always thought.
    Rhett

    65 Gran Sport Convertible
    71 GS455 - Unconfirmed Stage1
    73 Gran Sport Stage1 4spd
    72 Pontiac Grand Ville Convertible

    71 GS455 Conv. 4spd Tribute - Sold, now a Swedish citizen
    66 Corvair Monza 140 4spd Convertible - Sold, presumed Hurricane Sandy victim

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,843

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    As far as I know all GS cars should have came with an M-21.....but you know how that is. If they had an M-20...they probably put it in your car to just keep the lines moving.

    But it makes sense to have an M-20 in these cars....the first gear ratio is much higher, so the car will launch better.

    Rhett, if you could measure how long the Z-bar for your car is that'd be great. The Parts Place sells two....one 10" and the other 8 n 3/4"
    Anthony
    73 GS 455 - UNDER RESTORATION!
    73 GS Stage 1
    73 GS 350 4 speed SCO Midnight Gray Paint
    71 Porsche 911E

  7. #32

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    I'll try to get back up into the attic this week and measure that bar for you. In the meantime here's a picture of it next to the shifter, which may give you an idea of scale....

    I thought the M20 was the base 4 spd, I've never seen an order sheet that gave the option to opt for the M21 or M22. My car was "customer ordered", so maybe the prior owner specified the M20 in that process? It's on the buildsheet anyway.

    I lifted this from the Year One website, which leads me to believe it was the base trans -

    "The choice of transmission was dictated by the engine size and rear-axle ratio. Axle ratios of 3.73 and lower (numerically higher) came with close-ratio transmissions, while axle ratios of 3.55 and higher (numerically lower) used wide-ratio transmissions"
    Rhett

    65 Gran Sport Convertible
    71 GS455 - Unconfirmed Stage1
    73 Gran Sport Stage1 4spd
    72 Pontiac Grand Ville Convertible

    71 GS455 Conv. 4spd Tribute - Sold, now a Swedish citizen
    66 Corvair Monza 140 4spd Convertible - Sold, presumed Hurricane Sandy victim

  8. #33

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    I measured - 8 3/4 inches....
    Rhett

    65 Gran Sport Convertible
    71 GS455 - Unconfirmed Stage1
    73 Gran Sport Stage1 4spd
    72 Pontiac Grand Ville Convertible

    71 GS455 Conv. 4spd Tribute - Sold, now a Swedish citizen
    66 Corvair Monza 140 4spd Convertible - Sold, presumed Hurricane Sandy victim

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,843

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    Rhett,

    Thanks for measuring it! M20 on your build sheet is the code for a manual transmission.... there is a thread on here...of course I can't find it right now....that explains this. Check the numbers on the side of the transmission and decode it.
    Anthony
    73 GS 455 - UNDER RESTORATION!
    73 GS Stage 1
    73 GS 350 4 speed SCO Midnight Gray Paint
    71 Porsche 911E

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    KANSAS CITY, MO
    Posts
    3,644

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    This is a 70-72 Cutlass shifter, its for bench or buckets non-console, and i am sure of its application..i took it from the car ...



    Mark

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Gahanna, Ohio
    Posts
    708

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    Update-Finally picked up the 73 shifter mechanism, handle, and rods from Pete Serio today. Early Christmas present for me. Pete had it all assembled and mocked up on a spare Muncie transmission he uses to set up the shifters. Attached are numerous pictures of the assembly on the trans and on my kitchen counter after I got it home. Everything except the handle has been replated, rebuilt, etc. Chrome on the handle is not perfect but not worth getting it rechromed at this point. Pete also told me that the handle may be stamped with the number 8739. He also told the setup is very similiar to what was used in the 70 Olds 442 cars. Next step is to get it installed in the car and enjoy!!

    Larry

    Rhett Your tracing matched the handle perfectly. Thanks.
    BPG #1081
    GSCA #423
    70 GSX-Yellow #281
    70 GS455 Conv-Seamist Green, white top & interior
    72 GS Stage 1-Flame orange,white bucket interior
    73 Stage 1 - 4 speed, Black w/ white Interior ( Sold).
    86 GN - Original pwner
    69 Z-28 - Owned since 1983

    Life is like a mirror. If you frown at it, it frowns back; If you smile, it returns the greeting.

  12. #37

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    Larry -

    VERY cool! It sure looks correct from the photos.

    So according to Pete, the correct handle number for the 73 should be 8739, but they may or may not be stamped?

    One of these days I'll actually get mine apart and check the numbers, and maybe have Pete rebuild it while I'm at it.

    Glad the tracing helped.
    Rhett

    65 Gran Sport Convertible
    71 GS455 - Unconfirmed Stage1
    73 Gran Sport Stage1 4spd
    72 Pontiac Grand Ville Convertible

    71 GS455 Conv. 4spd Tribute - Sold, now a Swedish citizen
    66 Corvair Monza 140 4spd Convertible - Sold, presumed Hurricane Sandy victim

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Gahanna, Ohio
    Posts
    708

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    Rhett,

    Per Pete, the handle may or may not be stamped with the 8739 numbers. He actually dug the number out of a notebook that he keeps regarding various shifters, etc. He is very knowledgeable.

    Larry
    Last edited by Larry Gibson; 12-02-2011 at 08:30 PM. Reason: Spelling
    BPG #1081
    GSCA #423
    70 GSX-Yellow #281
    70 GS455 Conv-Seamist Green, white top & interior
    72 GS Stage 1-Flame orange,white bucket interior
    73 Stage 1 - 4 speed, Black w/ white Interior ( Sold).
    86 GN - Original pwner
    69 Z-28 - Owned since 1983

    Life is like a mirror. If you frown at it, it frowns back; If you smile, it returns the greeting.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,843

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    Great info and pictures Larry! Did he happen to have any other 73 shifters sitting around for sale?

    If not I'll just get one for a 70-72 Cutlass....they look close enough for me.
    Anthony
    73 GS 455 - UNDER RESTORATION!
    73 GS Stage 1
    73 GS 350 4 speed SCO Midnight Gray Paint
    71 Porsche 911E

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Gahanna, Ohio
    Posts
    708

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    Anthony,

    I didn't ask, I was just happy to find one. You can e-mail him at pserio@columbus.rr.com or can reach him at 614-258-3500.

    Larry
    BPG #1081
    GSCA #423
    70 GSX-Yellow #281
    70 GS455 Conv-Seamist Green, white top & interior
    72 GS Stage 1-Flame orange,white bucket interior
    73 Stage 1 - 4 speed, Black w/ white Interior ( Sold).
    86 GN - Original pwner
    69 Z-28 - Owned since 1983

    Life is like a mirror. If you frown at it, it frowns back; If you smile, it returns the greeting.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,843

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Anthony,

    I didn't ask, I was just happy to find one. You can e-mail him at pserio@columbus.rr.com or can reach him at 614-258-3500.

    Larry
    Larry,

    I was lucky enough to actually come across another one of these handles from a board member.....

    If you think about it, they probably didn't make that many of these since only several hundred cars were made with these 4-speeds in 73.

    But is the linkage the same as earlier cars? All munice 4-speed linkage the same?
    Anthony
    73 GS 455 - UNDER RESTORATION!
    73 GS Stage 1
    73 GS 350 4 speed SCO Midnight Gray Paint
    71 Porsche 911E

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Gahanna, Ohio
    Posts
    708

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    Update.

    Installed the new shifter mechanism and handle the past couple of days. Took the car out for a test drive yesterday and was pleased to note that it works well. Much smoother shifting now. Lot more room between the shifter arms and rods as compared to what was in the car. One minor glitch is the speedometer isn't working so I'll have to jack it up again and move the crossmember back to gain access to the cable and try to seat the cable in the gear. Attached are some pictures of the new shifter as installed. Compare it to the picture of the old setup. Big difference.

    Larry
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Larry Gibson; 01-11-2012 at 10:54 AM. Reason: Add pic of old shifter
    BPG #1081
    GSCA #423
    70 GSX-Yellow #281
    70 GS455 Conv-Seamist Green, white top & interior
    72 GS Stage 1-Flame orange,white bucket interior
    73 Stage 1 - 4 speed, Black w/ white Interior ( Sold).
    86 GN - Original pwner
    69 Z-28 - Owned since 1983

    Life is like a mirror. If you frown at it, it frowns back; If you smile, it returns the greeting.

  18. #43

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    Very Cool!

    So you not only got the shifter but all new rods? All from Pete? What kind of rods were in the car (muncie, Inland...?)

    I know nothing about 4 spd stuff.......


    Looks great!
    Rhett

    65 Gran Sport Convertible
    71 GS455 - Unconfirmed Stage1
    73 Gran Sport Stage1 4spd
    72 Pontiac Grand Ville Convertible

    71 GS455 Conv. 4spd Tribute - Sold, now a Swedish citizen
    66 Corvair Monza 140 4spd Convertible - Sold, presumed Hurricane Sandy victim

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Gahanna, Ohio
    Posts
    708

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    Rhett,

    Yes, everything came from Pete Serio. What was in the car was a mismatched set of aftermarket rods and shifter(relatively new shifter). The mounting plate for the shifter appeared to be from a late 70's Z-28 or Trans-Am. Caused the shifter to be tilted to the rear more than it should be. Don't know what the reverse rod was from but it appeared to have been bent to be used in this car.

    This has been a great learning experience, especially considering I've never messed with 4 speed stuff before.

    Larry
    BPG #1081
    GSCA #423
    70 GSX-Yellow #281
    70 GS455 Conv-Seamist Green, white top & interior
    72 GS Stage 1-Flame orange,white bucket interior
    73 Stage 1 - 4 speed, Black w/ white Interior ( Sold).
    86 GN - Original pwner
    69 Z-28 - Owned since 1983

    Life is like a mirror. If you frown at it, it frowns back; If you smile, it returns the greeting.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    31

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    Nice info and great car!
    Russ

  21. #46

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigpig455 View Post
    My car has an M-20 wide ratio from the factory.

    As I understand it, a wide ratio box is preferable in a larger, torquier car with streetable gears. A close ratio box works better in a car where the revs will be up most of the time, such as a high winding SBC or a car with 4.10 gears. I might be wrong, but thats what I always thought.

    I checked my 73 GS trans tonight, it only has 1 groove on the input shaft which I think makes it an M-21....???? I guess I was wrong...????
    Rhett

    65 Gran Sport Convertible
    71 GS455 - Unconfirmed Stage1
    73 Gran Sport Stage1 4spd
    72 Pontiac Grand Ville Convertible

    71 GS455 Conv. 4spd Tribute - Sold, now a Swedish citizen
    66 Corvair Monza 140 4spd Convertible - Sold, presumed Hurricane Sandy victim

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,843

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    Well I found an orignal 73 GS 4-speed Hurst shifter, and I have it mounted to a 63-64 M-21.

    I contacted Pete and he helped me get the right linkage and mounting plate which work for this combintation.

    The shifter goes into 1-2-3-4 perfectly, but I can not get it to go into Reverse.

    Any help here? Will I not be able to pull hard enough on the shifter unless the transmission is mounted in the car to engage Reverse?

    All the rods more free, not binding or anything touching, I can also shifter into reverse by moving the lever with my hand. I adjusted all the linkage properly inserting the rod through the shifter before adjusting the nuts.
    Anthony
    73 GS 455 - UNDER RESTORATION!
    73 GS Stage 1
    73 GS 350 4 speed SCO Midnight Gray Paint
    71 Porsche 911E

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Gahanna, Ohio
    Posts
    708

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    You should be able to put it in reverse if the trans is secured. Will the shifter go into the reverse position when it is not connected to the reverse lever? Is it possible that you had the trans in reverse when you adjusted the reverse arm? I think the shifter has a "gate " that has to be moved for the shifter to go into the reverse position. You may want to talk to Pere Serio and ask him about it. I know just enough to be dangerous!!

    Larry
    BPG #1081
    GSCA #423
    70 GSX-Yellow #281
    70 GS455 Conv-Seamist Green, white top & interior
    72 GS Stage 1-Flame orange,white bucket interior
    73 Stage 1 - 4 speed, Black w/ white Interior ( Sold).
    86 GN - Original pwner
    69 Z-28 - Owned since 1983

    Life is like a mirror. If you frown at it, it frowns back; If you smile, it returns the greeting.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Edmonton Alberta
    Posts
    13,544

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    Quote Originally Posted by 73BuickGS455 View Post
    Larry,

    I was lucky enough to actually come across another one of these handles from a board member.....

    If you think about it, they probably didn't make that many of these since only several hundred cars were made with these 4-speeds in 73.

    But is the linkage the same as earlier cars? All munice 4-speed linkage the same?
    I think that the 73-77 A body have a different linkage. I payed $125 for a 4 speed pedals and linkage from a Pontiac but I sold it so never found out how it would have fit.

    As far as I know the easiest way to find pedals and linkage for the 4 speed is from www.theabodysite.com as the Pontiac parts work I am told.
    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    My book called Small Block Buick Performance covering the V6, 215, 300, 340, and Buick 350 engines will be released soon.

    http://www.v8buick.com/forumdisplay....rformance-Book
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________________________
    1970 Buick Skylark 350 street/strip with 6 point cage: Custom tube headers feed Twin T3/T4 Turbochargers, Holley 650, sheet metal single plane intake, heavily ported iron heads with oversized valves, mild Poston 114 camshaft (2800-6000 RPM), Diamond forged pistons on Hershe forged rods, balanced, ARP everywhere, dual 3" exhaust, Paddle shifted 4L80E 4 speed overdrive, Moser 12 bolt with 3.42 gear.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    31

    Default Re: 73 4 Speed Question

    All the rods more free, not binding or anything touching, I can also shifter into reverse by moving the lever with my hand. I adjusted all the linkage properly inserting the rod through the shifter before adjusting the nuts.
    I don't know your shifter but a couple easy things that come to mind are could the reverse lever (on Transmission) be upside down? and does the shifter have the reverse lockout feature? Try pulling up or pushing down on the handle when shifting into reverse.
    Russ

 

 
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