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  1. #1
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    Default Edelbrock heads 60049

    How are the heads working, any after thoughts? I am looking at buying a set. What combinations are you running, what have been your results with these heads? How about 1/4 mile times and your combo? I'm obviously building a new buick street/strip car. I don't want to play catch up with the newer mustangs and camaros. Lions, tigers, and bears O my! I'm wanting to build a low 12/high 11 second potential motor combination. Did it with the chevy, now time to let the Buick roar! NOT looking for a comparison to the TA heads, just wanting to know edelbrock experience good or bad. Read enough of those postings. So all above being said, last question. What engine combo would you run with these heads to stay above the performance of the new cars. No I don't want a 600 hp, unstreetable motor. Can a Buick do it?
    Last edited by waterwolf; 11-09-2011 at 09:30 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Edelbrock heads 60049

    If you are buying Edelbrock heads from someone like Gessler who has taken the time to go through the heads and checked things like guide to valve stem clearance, stem height, then you will be fine.

    If you want to have an engine that will represent Buick power on the street then consider additional port work.

    BTW you can have a 600 hp streetable engine with the proper choice of parts.
    Last edited by pmuller9; 09-29-2011 at 09:11 AM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Edelbrock heads 60049

    So from that last post, Edelbrock heads stock are possibly not quality items. Possibly poor workmanship. Does anyone else have some comments on these heads? I want to hear form people who have used them. Did you find the same issues as stated in the last post? Or were those never a concern? Looking for real information here. I really don't care about the CHEVY rocker arms, it is still a buick motor. I know this is the place to get it. You guys are great, and have the experience and knowledge to get to the heart of the matter. Again thanks all. This should be a great post for future builders, if real factual information is given. As they would say.

    BTW what combo would someone use to build 600 streetable horsepower? Does that include girdles, block filler, roller cam, ect? I want to build a motor for $3500 or less. Yes I can assemble the motor. SO parts and machine labor are my costs.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Edelbrock heads 60049

    JW had a post a while back describing a low compression high horse power 455 Buick a while back. Do a search.
    1953 Buick 455 TA Aluminum SE Stg2 Heads, B4B Intake, S/P Turbo 400, Gear Vendor, 3.42 Posi. A/C
    1970 GS Project Getting close.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Edelbrock heads 60049

    Spend your entire budget on the heads for porting/flow work.

    Red car has 464, 10.25 weisco piston, hydraulic cam, stock rods, stock crank, no fill, Eddy heads, SPX with 950 carb. Upper 500's hp on the dyno.

    Can you build a nice powered, everyday street drivable BBB for $3500, yes. (but not like ours)
    Last edited by carmantx; 09-30-2011 at 07:24 AM.
    Mark
    72 Skylark "GSX" Convertible 462, SP 400, 4:10
    72 "GSX" 464, TH 400, 3:42 10.71@126, street tires and mufflers
    Buick Quadrajet builder
    Join "quadrajet power " on Facebook
    mark@texasextremeracing.com

  6. #6
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    rockford ill
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    Default Re: Edelbrock heads 60049

    This is my setup AMP 470 short block, edelbrock heads, spx,hvh spacer, 1050 proform,comp cam 544/569 solid. This is in a 71 convert with a 3.73 gear 28/10.5 m/t et, i know there is more to get,but there is just not that many weekends left. And yes i like the heads (just get them checked out before installing)

    R/T .036
    60FT 1.68
    330 4.833
    1/8 7.524
    MPH 90.35
    1000 9.895
    1/4 11.90
    MPH 111.83

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Edelbrock heads 60049

    My heads were prity nice but i did a quick clean up on the exhaust ports.
    I have not run it yet but hopeing for mid 12"s.
    the only thing i did not like was the plugs were at a different angle so the point at the headers other than that the cheep rockers are a big plus.
    1968 GS400,430 eddie heads,sp1 intake,mutha thumper cam,poston headers,2400 stall,3.73 12 bolt.12.71@107 October @ lebanon valley

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Edelbrock heads 60049

    Quote Originally Posted by waterwolf View Post
    BTW what combo would someone use to build 600 streetable horsepower? Does that include girdles, block filler, roller cam, ect? I want to build a motor for $3500 or less. Yes I can assemble the motor. SO parts and machine labor are my costs.
    608HP@6000 RPM/595TQ@4800 RPM

    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...&highlight=470

    A spec run-down of this motor
    • Bore- 4.350
    • Stroke- 3.95
    • Deck height- 10.550
    • Compression ratio- 10.50-1
    • Head CC 61
    • piston CC 30
    • Head gasket .040
    • Rod clearance .0027
    • Main Clearance (1-4) .0027 (5) .0031
    • Block- 70 SF, full machining and oil mods, no filler or girdles.
    • Crank- Stock Buick, mains at .010, rods offset ground to 2.200, widened to 1.995
    • Rods- Eagle H-Beam 6.8" C-C length, .990 pin 2.200 big end
    • Pistons- TSP/Diamond 470 Combo- 15*x.300 valve reliefs, conical dish, offset pins
    • Rings- Plasma moly conventional gap rings 1/16 compression 3/16 oil
    • Balancer- TA Factory reproduction
    • Flexplate- SFI
    • Timing cover- TA 1531, built by TSP, factory 455 end housing, stock length gears, white STG 1 spring.
    • Bearings- Clevite 77 rod/main- TA dual groove coated cam
    • Fel Pro gaskets
    • SRE Oil pan (will be)- tested with TA 1511A
    • Camshaft- TA Hydraulic roller, 234/247/113 with .574/,584 lift at valves
    • TA Hyd Roller lifters
    • Rollmaster timing chain set .005 undersize
    • TA Stage 1 SE Cylinder heads, with TSP Level 3 porting 335/250 at .600
    • TA SP-1 Intake Manifold, TSP port match and plenum work
    • AMP manifold Splash pan
    • 8.675 length 5/16 pushrods, .080 wall 4130
    • TA Roller Rockers- 1.6 ratio
    • FR-5 NGK spark plugs
    • MSD 8.5MM Super Conductor wires
    • Dave Ray stock distributor with mag pickup conversion

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Edelbrock heads 60049

    There was a really good thread about a simple build using eddy heads that was in the 11s... I think it got deleted because some people attack the whole eddy thing.

    Here is some info on another build:

    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...highlight=eddy

    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...highlight=eddy
    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    My book called Small Block Buick Performance covering the V6, 215, 300, 340, and Buick 350 engines will be released soon.

    http://www.v8buick.com/forumdisplay....rformance-Book
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________________________
    1970 Buick Skylark 350 street/strip with 6 point cage: Custom tube headers feed Twin T3/T4 Turbochargers, Holley 650, sheet metal single plane intake, heavily ported iron heads with oversized valves, mild Poston 114 camshaft (2800-6000 RPM), Diamond forged pistons on Hershe forged rods, balanced, ARP everywhere, dual 3" exhaust, Paddle shifted 4L80E 4 speed overdrive, Moser 12 bolt with 3.42 gear.

  10. #10
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Edelbrock heads 60049

    12.50 ET at 111.53 mph with a 1.949 60 ft. time first time out last March with a carb bog and traction issues. I feel its an 11 second combo with some bugs I need to work out. 464, edlebrock heads from Greg,B4B, 500 hp street cam, MT headders, 3" exaust. Stage 1 automotive in NJ put this engine together years ago after thr Edlebrock heads were just hiting the market. I like them for me.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Edelbrock heads 60049

    The Edelbrock heads are fine, you just don't want to have Edelbrock do the valve job, from what I've read. Get them from Gessler or Finishline Motorsports, at least get the entry level porting. It's a no brainer.

    http://www.finishlinemotorsports.com/

    http://www.gesslerheadporting.com/ge...b!OpenDocument
    Larry
    1998 "Fully Optioned" SC3800 Riviera
    70 GS 455 Stage1, TSP 470, 602 HP@ 5900, 589 TQ @ 4900
    TA Hyd Roller Cam, 230*/238*, 112, .544"/.577" lift, 4-7 swap
    MSD Digital 6+, Ignitionman Distributor w/MSD trigger
    1967 BT Switchpitch ST-400, Gear Vendors OD
    with TSP 3200/1800 converter
    AED 1000 HO Carb, 800 CFM 7042240 Quadrajet
    8.5 10 bolt, 3.73's
    11.67 @ 115.49 MPH
    Larrymta@verizon.net, GSCA #291
    BPG # 1063
    N.E. GS/GN Club Assistant Director

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Edelbrock heads 60049

    WOW guys, finally some good solid non-biased information on the edelbrock heads. I appreciat that. Thank you, anyone else have some potent combo's?

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Edelbrock heads 60049

    Some interesting fresh info.
    Tyler has been tweaking our 464 getting ready for the Buick vs Ford race coming up. Dyno'd the car today, and produced right on 600hp at the crank on the mustang chassis dyno he uses all the time for tuning.

    All motor now, no spray. (and more than $3500)
    Last edited by carmantx; 09-30-2011 at 07:26 AM.
    Mark
    72 Skylark "GSX" Convertible 462, SP 400, 4:10
    72 "GSX" 464, TH 400, 3:42 10.71@126, street tires and mufflers
    Buick Quadrajet builder
    Join "quadrajet power " on Facebook
    mark@texasextremeracing.com

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Edelbrock heads 60049

    Waterwolf,...Go to "buyracingparts.com",...or type "Competition Components" company in Okemus, Michigan.

    Finishline Motorsports and them did the "700 hp buick motor" that runs on E-85, with Edelbrock heads,.... Its in a stock looking 71 GS buick skylark.... it ran in the 10's....Get to thier website, Go to BLOG. then on the right side click on Oct. 2009 it then talks about the 464 build..with the Eddy heads.

    There's other buicks on that site also,..you just have to skim thru all of it.

    The heads are CNC ported by Competition Components...the heads have very impressive flow numbers...they also have very good buick 455 cams avalible...Gessler & Tri-shield and others are very good also,...but this is what these guys have already done last year...

    CNC is expensive..but you get what you pay for....

    Hope this helps you out...

    Jerrold..
    Jerrold Smith ~ 72' skylark custom, 462 - best ET: 11:57 at 115.2 ~~ 72' GS 350 conv.~~ 70' post skylark,. sbb 350 ~ best: 13.24 at 102.2

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Edelbrock heads 60049

    You guys are making the edelbrock heads viable. All the bashing I saw in other links and on other sites, I was beginning to wonder. Glad they can make power, and support the BUICK cause. Now if only Edelbrock would sponser my engine build I would be a Rich man.

    So getting back to my post. Is there such a thing as a semi-mild mannered high 11 second motor build up that can be recommended? What compression, cam, intake? I already have a 12 bolt 3:55 posi. Yep Chevy. Ooops here we go again. I would like to retain the GS aircleaner, since there is nothing cooler. SO edelbrock intake and quadrajet would be used.

    Maybe start with Gessler stage 2 heads?

    What compression ratio are you guys getting away with on the street. with regular pump gas and aluminum heads?

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Edelbrock heads 60049

    The favorite cam is the TA413.
    It will allow a static compression ratio as high as 10.5 giving a dynamic compression ratio of 7.9

    Here is a build using the Edelbrock head with the TA413 cam.
    If you use a Gessler Level 2 Edelbrock head and a 10.5 compression ratio
    your results will be better than Car Craft's

    http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...ads/index.html

    The Level 2 head should flow past .500 valve lift, so use the 1.6 ratio Chevy rocker.

    Paul

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Edelbrock heads 60049

    NO YOU CAN'T build a 600 HP motor for $3,500 this is not the 60's folks! The ported heads and aluminum intake will eat it all up. What about rockers, gaskets, machine work, will he use his old rings and pistons. What about rods. Are you going to tell the guy to use his stock rods on a 600 HP motor. or even un-resized rods without ARP bolts on a 400 HP motor. The old stock carb etc. etc. etc. If he wants to run low 12's or high 11"s what is this going in? We are guessing a skylark 3800 lbs. + -? What about trans mods for any built 455. Does he already have headers. He might build a very good bottom end with some less expensive eagle rods and forged pistons, new balancer, regrind crank, SFI flex plate and balance for 3500 but I doubt it. Maybe I missed something, like he had every thing else done and could spend 3500 just on heads???? But that's not what he said. Eddy heads are a cheaper way to go. Why don't we support the future of Buick and buy TA S1 TE's? Get your pencil and paper out before you start anything when you have a budget. Call the machine shop and see exactly what all operations and balancing costs. Then list all your parts. See what you can afford now. Build the bottom end now and add the heads manifold and carb later. Remember 9:1 is about all the motor will handle with 91 Octane without aluminum heads! Good luck and plan. Sorry to throw a monkey wrench in the project but I don't want you to sell the car half done.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Edelbrock heads 60049

    My build, Jim Weise 470 short block 10.3 compression, Gessler level 2 Edelbrock heads, Quick fuel 870 carb, TA413 Hydraulic Roller, Sp1 TA intake, Made 596 hp @ 6000 rpm and 586 tq @ 4400. Best run to date is 11.40 in the 1/4 at 118mph on pump gas. Jim tried a 1000cfm holley on the engine dyno and it made less hp 588hp. Jim said it is all about air flow.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Edelbrock heads 60049

    Sorry to mislead you guys. I don't have any need for a 600 hp motor.I would like to be in the 525-575 range with some decent street manners. One of the early posts said it was easy to build the 600 hp motor. I hadn't planned on going with the CNC heads. SO MAYBE 3500 won't quite cut it. Don't worry about my driveline.

    Competetion Components lists their Ededlbrock CNC flow 321 @ 500
    Gessler flow rates per Stan Weiss cyl flow charts are 294 @ 500

    Quite a difference there, are the Competition Comp. heads really that much better?

    Current plan after all these posts:
    464 short block balanced
    10.3 cr. Weisco pistons
    413 TA camshaft
    Edelbrock 2146 intake to work w/GS aircleaner. Unless better options are out there.
    Quadrajet carb worked (over) not by me.
    Headers


    Car:
    1970 skylark
    TH400 w2500-2800 stall
    12 bolt 3:55 gears

    Might try the 200R4 in future.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Edelbrock heads 60049

    You will suffer performance for wanting to keep the GS air cleaner and the intake it will work with. There are a lot of people that run a different air cleaner when driving, and put the GS air cleaner on for shows.

    Our 464 dyno'd just over 500 hp with a performer intake and Quadrajet that I built for it. Gained HP and TQ when we went to SPX intake. Now after cam change and more tuning, we are at 600hp. Car is driven on highway and street weekly (not daily anymore, was for years) on pump gas.

    And, to emphasize, this motor has much more than $3500 in it.

    I'm building an iron head 462 for my convertible for under $3500 and hope to have 425 hp or so.
    Mark
    72 Skylark "GSX" Convertible 462, SP 400, 4:10
    72 "GSX" 464, TH 400, 3:42 10.71@126, street tires and mufflers
    Buick Quadrajet builder
    Join "quadrajet power " on Facebook
    mark@texasextremeracing.com

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Edelbrock heads 60049

    If you are really on a budget then why not just use a good running short block and add some good heads onto it?

    I think what you may be after more than HP is some good low rpm torque and you really do not have to do much to get that with a 455...
    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    My book called Small Block Buick Performance covering the V6, 215, 300, 340, and Buick 350 engines will be released soon.

    http://www.v8buick.com/forumdisplay....rformance-Book
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________________________
    1970 Buick Skylark 350 street/strip with 6 point cage: Custom tube headers feed Twin T3/T4 Turbochargers, Holley 650, sheet metal single plane intake, heavily ported iron heads with oversized valves, mild Poston 114 camshaft (2800-6000 RPM), Diamond forged pistons on Hershe forged rods, balanced, ARP everywhere, dual 3" exhaust, Paddle shifted 4L80E 4 speed overdrive, Moser 12 bolt with 3.42 gear.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Edelbrock heads 60049

    What year 455 do you have and how many miles are on it? Will you need a new front cover or oil mods? Also add cam kit to price. You can save $'s by buying a used cam., but use new lifters. I wouldn't take a chance on someone accidentally mixing one up. You could also check this site for slightly used pistons and rods or discounted new ones. A lot of people change plans. Take the next couple of months to think and plan and look for discount parts to help with your budget. Maybe the guy building the 462 with iron heads can put a budget together with machine work and post it. His project is more realistic for what you have budgeted. You can post for parts in the "parts wanted" section. Call Gessler he had some used cams and parts for sale. Call all the Buick engine builders, they usually have used and discounted parts just ask them. If you take a little time you can stretch that budget to build a good bottom end. Add the heads later!

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Edelbrock heads 60049

    Quote Originally Posted by carmantx View Post
    You will suffer performance for wanting to keep the GS air cleaner and the intake it will work with. There are a lot of people that run a different air cleaner when driving, and put the GS air cleaner on for shows.

    Our 464 dyno'd just over 500 hp with a performer intake and Quadrajet that I built for it. Gained HP and TQ when we went to SPX intake. Now after cam change and more tuning, we are at 600hp. Car is driven on highway and street weekly (not daily anymore, was for years) on pump gas.
    X2

    If you look at the Car Craft article (Post#17), there is a 28 hp gain with the SPX over the B4B intake manifold with the "Out of the box" Edelbrock head.
    It will be even greater with your combination.

    If you look at the dyno sheets from the Car Craft article, the B4B manifold has a torque advantage over the SPX
    from 2700 to 3700 rpm with a peak difference of 30 ft lbs at 3000 rpm.

    Beyond 3700 the B4B takes a straight line decline in torque while the SPX maintains 530 ft lbs to 4900 rpm.
    In this case the SPX manifold makes a lot more power under the curve.

    If you look at a ported head, TA413 cam with SP1 manifold, the torque curve increases a good amount after 3800 rpm.
    The dual plane manifold would be a mismatch in this case and is better suited for hp applications under 500.






    Now it becomes a matter of matching the torque converter.

    If you decide later on to use a transmission with lock up converter and overdrive (It won't be cheap at this power level)
    then you can have low rpm cruising and high stall for destroying brand "X" cars.
    Some may even suggest to keep the TH400 and use a switch pitch converter.

    You already know this but no matter what air cleaner you decide on, it is very important that it takes in outside air and not hot air from the engine compartment.
    Not only will it cost you hp but will also make the engine more prone to detonation

    Paul
    Last edited by pmuller9; 09-30-2011 at 01:37 PM.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Edelbrock heads 60049

    If it's a street car than don't worry about dyno numbers. The highrise single plane intakes are great for drag cars and show cars but in stop and go traffic there's alot to be said for the low rpm torque of the dual plane intakes. If you're going to build a car that sees mostly track time and is built to impress your buddies than go with the single plane highrise setup and put down the numbers that impress the chevy folks.

    Same with cam choices. If you want rumble and dyno numbers than be carefull that you don't end up sacrificing your brakes. If it's a track car you have more wiggle room than on a street car when it comes to braking distance and exactly how much vacuum you can sacrifice.

    I think the important question is, what do you consider an unstreetable motor?

 

 
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