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  1. #1
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    Lightbulb 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    So havent gotten an approx price as of yet ,but have a company that's willing to do a billet 4340 billet crankshaft for the buick350!

    My question is how many would be interested and at what stroke?
    This coule be a perfect time to for destrokeing? 3.80 stroke?

    The most obvious would be to just do stock stroke at 3.85
    or we can do a stroke at 3.40 like the sbb 300/v6s which = 313-314 cubes with .030 over
    or even a 3.26 stroke at .030 over yeilds 300 cubes
    or 3.69 stroke at 0.30over to give 340 cubes

    or make it a square engine with a 3.83 bore and 3.83 stroke
    Last edited by Nothingface5384; 05-19-2012 at 03:39 PM.
    Mike aka BiZnO
    72 twinturbo Skylark

    Buick 350 Inspirational members to me..
    TuBBeD for his 551+ N/A build
    BillMah52 First to take a 350 where no man has gone before
    Justa350 First to hang a pair of turbos and cause Kaos
    GSJohnny First to max out the bore at .090 and his .075 and have engines that actually breath well N/A!
    Bobb Makley First well known to Stroke a 350
    Ken Betts, Hopefully the guy to pull-off 350 AL heads :-D

  2. #2
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    Default Re: 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    I can't think of a good reason to throw away cubes/torque/power.

    How far down in the hole do the pistons typically end up on a Buick 350? Add almost that much arm so that squaring the decks also gives you piston tops level with the deck. Maximum benefit with minimum stock removal at the deck surface. Maybe .020--.030 more arm? (Double that for additional stroke--.040 to .060?)

  3. #3
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    Default Re: 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    actually destroking it to 3.80 over the 3.85 wouldmake it breath better without sacrificing any real lowend torque. more bore then stroke when overbored .010 or more
    I'm mainly just interested in seeing how many people would buy a billet crank if we can get a decent price

    majority would want stock stroke of 3.85 though if we actually had an option cant hurt to entertain the thought of destroking for a fast and hi revving motor for say a supercharged engine or an engine tailored to roadroace/circle track
    Mike aka BiZnO
    72 twinturbo Skylark

    Buick 350 Inspirational members to me..
    TuBBeD for his 551+ N/A build
    BillMah52 First to take a 350 where no man has gone before
    Justa350 First to hang a pair of turbos and cause Kaos
    GSJohnny First to max out the bore at .090 and his .075 and have engines that actually breath well N/A!
    Bobb Makley First well known to Stroke a 350
    Ken Betts, Hopefully the guy to pull-off 350 AL heads :-D

  4. #4
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    Default Re: 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    Quote Originally Posted by Nothingface5384 View Post
    actually destroking it to 3.80 over the 3.85 wouldmake it breath better without sacrificing any real lowend torque. more bore then stroke when overbored .010 or more
    I'm mainly just interested in seeing how many people would buy a billet crank if we can get a decent price

    majority would want stock stroke of 3.85 though if we actually had an option cant hurt to entertain the thought of destroking for a fast and hi revving motor for say a supercharged engine or an engine tailored to roadroace/circle track
    all depends on what car you have and what you want to do. i prefer the bore to be bigger than the stroke. damn, we need an 350 aluminum block for this crank!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    Yea I hear you at this point I just want a. Billet crank and if a groupbuy at stock stroke makes it cheaper then so be it...good for my twin turbo motor..or if people are willing to do a 3.80 stroke awsome..
    Mike aka BiZnO
    72 twinturbo Skylark

    Buick 350 Inspirational members to me..
    TuBBeD for his 551+ N/A build
    BillMah52 First to take a 350 where no man has gone before
    Justa350 First to hang a pair of turbos and cause Kaos
    GSJohnny First to max out the bore at .090 and his .075 and have engines that actually breath well N/A!
    Bobb Makley First well known to Stroke a 350
    Ken Betts, Hopefully the guy to pull-off 350 AL heads :-D

  6. #6
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    Default Re: 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    I would buy one if it could be optioned in 300 main journal size (2.5" I believe) and honda rod journal size (1.88"). Knife edged counterweights (preferably slightly smaller diameter too) and gun drilled journals as well, of course....

    I would also suggest cutting the snout of the crank to more readily accept the MUCH better oil pump included in the Land Rover Discovery front timing cover

    '64 Riv

    '65 Special WAGON... turbo and EFI here I come
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...ntake-and-more

  7. #7
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    Default Re: 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    Quote Originally Posted by 87GN@Tahoe View Post
    I would buy one if it could be optioned in 300 main journal size (2.5" I believe) and honda rod journal size (1.88"). Knife edged counterweights (preferably slightly smaller diameter too) and gun drilled journals as well, of course....

    I would also suggest cutting the snout of the crank to more readily accept the MUCH better oil pump included in the Land Rover Discovery front timing cover
    Thanks for the imput buddy
    when ever he replies back i'll mention this
    if I could afford 2 cranks i'd do one almost the same was as you but with 3.95 stroke..or possible 4in if knew i could squeeze an extra .05 over the proven 370 stroker
    Mike aka BiZnO
    72 twinturbo Skylark

    Buick 350 Inspirational members to me..
    TuBBeD for his 551+ N/A build
    BillMah52 First to take a 350 where no man has gone before
    Justa350 First to hang a pair of turbos and cause Kaos
    GSJohnny First to max out the bore at .090 and his .075 and have engines that actually breath well N/A!
    Bobb Makley First well known to Stroke a 350
    Ken Betts, Hopefully the guy to pull-off 350 AL heads :-D

  8. #8
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    Default Re: 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    Quote Originally Posted by Nothingface5384 View Post
    Thanks for the imput buddy
    when ever he replies back i'll mention this
    if I could afford 2 cranks i'd do one almost the same was as you but with 3.95 stroke..or possible 4in if knew i could squeeze an extra .05 over the proven 370 stroker
    AH YES, I forgot to add in the stroke!..... THAT TOO! .030" over bore and 3.95 stroke would yield 364ci(rounded down from 364.066) with a 4" stroke it would yield 369ci (368.7ci rounded).

    I think you could go with a 4" stroke of you went with the 1.85" Honda journals, as they're 0.15" smaller than stock. Some of the NASCAR rod offerings come in the 1.85" sizing.

    ALSO, have you contacted Bryant Crankshafts OR Moldex Crankshafts (who I believe have already made cranks for the Rover crowd)?

    wes

    '64 Riv

    '65 Special WAGON... turbo and EFI here I come
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...ntake-and-more

  9. #9
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    Default Re: 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    Quote Originally Posted by 87GN@Tahoe View Post
    AH YES, I forgot to add in the stroke!..... THAT TOO! .030" over bore and 3.95 stroke would yield 364ci(rounded down from 364.066) with a 4" stroke it would yield 369ci (368.7ci rounded).

    I think you could go with a 4" stroke of you went with the 1.85" Honda journals, as they're 0.15" smaller than stock. Some of the NASCAR rod offerings come in the 1.85" sizing.

    ALSO, have you contacted Bryant Crankshafts OR Moldex Crankshafts (who I believe have already made cranks for the Rover crowd)?

    wes
    ive contacted them along with somemore
    perhaps if wecan getmorevendors to bite we'll have a better picking for pricing

    out of the 7-10 or so ive contacted about 3 said no.
    kings crankshaft straightup said they could do abillet piece,just waiting on some $$$ figures
    i'm sure it'll be 2k min
    Mike aka BiZnO
    72 twinturbo Skylark

    Buick 350 Inspirational members to me..
    TuBBeD for his 551+ N/A build
    BillMah52 First to take a 350 where no man has gone before
    Justa350 First to hang a pair of turbos and cause Kaos
    GSJohnny First to max out the bore at .090 and his .075 and have engines that actually breath well N/A!
    Bobb Makley First well known to Stroke a 350
    Ken Betts, Hopefully the guy to pull-off 350 AL heads :-D

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    Default Re: 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    I'm not as familiar with the possible stroke combinations on a sbb, but I'd personally opt for the 370 version myself. As for the other various possibilities mentioned, I'd bet there would be more interest if supporting parts (rods In particular) didn't have to be custom made. I'm ok with buying the Yates or hershe rods that have been discussed many time though.

    I certainly would pay 2k for a billet crank. Maybe a bit more considering I'd think of it as essentially bullet proof for this engine. I plan on running turbos on mine and while others do fine, I'd really like to be able to get to that 1000hp level like that pro charged sbb did.

    I won't be ready for one for quite a while, but if there was a group buy that got the price down a bit I'd be willing to get one in a month or two at the earliest.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    Quote Originally Posted by pocket5s View Post
    I'm not as familiar with the possible stroke combinations on a sbb, but I'd personally opt for the 370 version myself. As for the other various possibilities mentioned, I'd bet there would be more interest if supporting parts (rods In particular) didn't have to be custom made. I'm ok with buying the Yates or hershe rods that have been discussed many time though.

    I certainly would pay 2k for a billet crank. Maybe a bit more considering I'd think of it as essentially bullet proof for this engine. I plan on running turbos on mine and while others do fine, I'd really like to be able to get to that 1000hp level like that pro charged sbb did.

    I won't be ready for one for quite a while, but if there was a group buy that got the price down a bit I'd be willing to get one in a month or two at the earliest.
    yea, Ill pay up to 3k but hopeing more for around 2-2500

    needs to be .060 over for 370 with 3.95 stroke with lentz rods the rod ratio decreases a little but is still a good ratio
    you can pull a gsjohnny and do. 075 with stock stroke if you plan for just a track only motor. his motor screams.if we even just de-stroked his combo to a 3.80 it'd helpa bit more while not needing to change rods
    Mike aka BiZnO
    72 twinturbo Skylark

    Buick 350 Inspirational members to me..
    TuBBeD for his 551+ N/A build
    BillMah52 First to take a 350 where no man has gone before
    Justa350 First to hang a pair of turbos and cause Kaos
    GSJohnny First to max out the bore at .090 and his .075 and have engines that actually breath well N/A!
    Bobb Makley First well known to Stroke a 350
    Ken Betts, Hopefully the guy to pull-off 350 AL heads :-D

  12. #12
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    Default Re: 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    Quote Originally Posted by Nothingface5384 View Post
    yea, Ill pay up to 3k but hopeing more for around 2-2500

    needs to be .060 over for 370 with 3.95 stroke with lentz rods the rod ratio decreases a little but is still a good ratio
    you can pull a gsjohnny and do. 075 with stock stroke if you plan for just a track only motor. his motor screams.if we even just de-stroked his combo to a 3.80 it'd helpa bit more while not needing to change rods
    I'd Consider 2000-2500 fair for a billet crank, but honestly I've never really looked into them for any motor.

    Mine won't be track only though. I like to drive my vehicles . As for the extre cubes, after reading a story in a mag comparing a 355 vs 383, everything equal as could be (cam, compression, heads) the extra 28 cubes were worth 40hp and about the same for torque. In a sbc the cost difference between the two are miniscule. I know this isn't a sbc, but I'll takes the cubic inches any day if I'm spending the money anyway on high dollar parts.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    One-off single cranks will run about $4,000 a piece... I never asked about getting a price break for several.

    If one is going to go big bucks on the crank it would be a damn shame to f*** it up by not using proper rods and pistons and having one of those pieces fail.

    My plans are 300ci block bored as much as is safe (at least 3.800"), stroker crank, hydraulic roller cam, NASCAR takeout rods, custom forged pistons, ported TA Buick/Rover heads, home made sheetmetal intake (done), EFI, and 20+lbs of boost from a 74mm Ball Bearing turbo... ALL in an unassuming street driven '65 Special Wagon

    '64 Riv

    '65 Special WAGON... turbo and EFI here I come
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...ntake-and-more

  14. #14
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    Default Re: 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    anybody ever see some of the nascar c/s design/used? pretty wild. i asked about that.

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    Default Re: 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    Quote Originally Posted by 87GN@Tahoe View Post
    One-off single cranks will run about $4,000 a piece... I never asked about getting a price break for several.

    If one is going to go big bucks on the crank it would be a damn shame to f*** it up by not using proper rods and pistons and having one of those pieces fail.

    My plans are 300ci block bored as much as is safe (at least 3.800"), stroker crank, hydraulic roller cam, NASCAR takeout rods, custom forged pistons, ported TA Buick/Rover heads, home made sheetmetal intake (done), EFI, and 20+lbs of boost from a 74mm Ball Bearing turbo... ALL in an unassuming street driven '65 Special Wagon
    yea, every bottom end piece I have is bullet proof
    ..just need a billet crank and a girdle and i'm set
    i'm sure i'll only have enough $$$ for one ..so got to figure out if i'm going to get it for the hershe bottomend build or the lentz stroker..both will end up being turbo fed
    Mike aka BiZnO
    72 twinturbo Skylark

    Buick 350 Inspirational members to me..
    TuBBeD for his 551+ N/A build
    BillMah52 First to take a 350 where no man has gone before
    Justa350 First to hang a pair of turbos and cause Kaos
    GSJohnny First to max out the bore at .090 and his .075 and have engines that actually breath well N/A!
    Bobb Makley First well known to Stroke a 350
    Ken Betts, Hopefully the guy to pull-off 350 AL heads :-D

  16. #16
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    Default Re: 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    Well I have great know to whoms interested which ill post later

    ---------- Post added at 03:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 PM ----------

    Ok so some good updates

    From Rick King of King Crankshafts

    We can make a billet 4340 crankshaft good for a 1000+hp
    We would make them from E4340 TIMKEN cost $2200.00 to $2500.00 any stroke and bearing combo , time 12-14 weeks.




    From Joe @ Moldex crankshaft

    Mike,,



    Yes we can make a 4340 billet for your Buick. We can do any stroke rod main combo you like.

    Price starts at $2750





    Sincerely,



    Joe Flower



    Moldex Crankshaft Co.

    12255 WORMER ST.

    Redford, Mi 48239

    (313)387-6099 Phone

    (313)387-6122 Fax




    Chris from CNC Motorsports can alsomake a 4340 Chromoly billet crank...3250 10-12 weeks

    I'm not going tobother with Bryant racing as they need a blueprint or actual crank (sample) before they can do an estimate and told me 1 would be really expensive and would need 10+ orders to waive the tooling/programing

    So Rick still sounds like the best option ..Pretty sure he does custom rods and pistons if you fancy getting everything at same place
    Last edited by Nothingface5384; 05-23-2012 at 06:03 PM.
    Mike aka BiZnO
    72 twinturbo Skylark

    Buick 350 Inspirational members to me..
    TuBBeD for his 551+ N/A build
    BillMah52 First to take a 350 where no man has gone before
    Justa350 First to hang a pair of turbos and cause Kaos
    GSJohnny First to max out the bore at .090 and his .075 and have engines that actually breath well N/A!
    Bobb Makley First well known to Stroke a 350
    Ken Betts, Hopefully the guy to pull-off 350 AL heads :-D

  17. #17
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    Default Re: 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    Quote Originally Posted by Nothingface5384 View Post
    yea, every bottom end piece I have is bullet proof
    ..just need a billet crank and a girdle and i'm set
    i'm sure i'll only have enough $$$ for one ..so got to figure out if i'm going to get it for the hershe bottomend build or the lentz stroker..both will end up being turbo fed
    i have looked at the bottom side of the 350 regarding the 'girdle'. imho, the 350 being a thinwall casting thru out, i dont the girdle is going to offer
    much support. the block wall from the pan rail up to and beyond the crank c/line is pretty thin. even the crank webbing is thin. there is not much support. i dont think the girdle is going to support the crank web. maybe i'm wrong, but i tend to look thru the block at every angle(not superman, but old school machinist view).

    another question(haven't figured out the answer yet) is the girdle for h/p or rpm support? maybe we need to figure this out before we go further.

    this just brings us back to 'WHERE'S THE S/P INTAKE, ALUMINUM HEADS AND ALUMINUM BLOCK???

  18. #18
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    Default Re: 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    updated thread with material and priceing for cnc motorsports

    i'll probably call rick up soon and see if its ok tosend a .010 under crank as a sample

    Not sure if chromoly is stronger them Timken but it'll bemore then enough to handle anything..bryant racing uses 4340 Timken also so i doubt its inferior to 4340 chromoly..i know its lighter then chromoly though.

    Sean is working on the girfler ordeal though i think its on the back burner at the moment. Pretty sure it started out as the template Billmah used on the 1000+ s/c 350 engine
    I like over-buiilding things.. if it'll help with block flex and or crank walk im all for it

    ps not worried about al intake...got nice sheetmetel one..
    Mike aka BiZnO
    72 twinturbo Skylark

    Buick 350 Inspirational members to me..
    TuBBeD for his 551+ N/A build
    BillMah52 First to take a 350 where no man has gone before
    Justa350 First to hang a pair of turbos and cause Kaos
    GSJohnny First to max out the bore at .090 and his .075 and have engines that actually breath well N/A!
    Bobb Makley First well known to Stroke a 350
    Ken Betts, Hopefully the guy to pull-off 350 AL heads :-D

  19. #19
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    Default Re: 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    Wow, that is a lot less than I was expecting. Lets roll

    '64 Riv

    '65 Special WAGON... turbo and EFI here I come
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...ntake-and-more

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    Default Re: 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    Quote Originally Posted by gsjohnny1 View Post
    i have looked at the bottom side of the 350 regarding the 'girdle'. imho, the 350 being a thinwall casting thru out, i dont the girdle is going to offer
    much support. the block wall from the pan rail up to and beyond the crank c/line is pretty thin. even the crank webbing is thin. there is not much support. i dont think the girdle is going to support the crank web. maybe i'm wrong, but i tend to look thru the block at every angle(not superman, but old school machinist view).

    another question(haven't figured out the answer yet) is the girdle for h/p or rpm support? maybe we need to figure this out before we go further.

    this just brings us back to 'WHERE'S THE S/P INTAKE, ALUMINUM HEADS AND ALUMINUM BLOCK???
    >> With 3" mains, you "might" have enough room for roller bearings =way less drag. I have a single plane crank drawing now. I will forward to "RPM" for billet crank qoute. FWIW, Timken 4340 is chrome moly and the "same" weight as any chrome moly. Timken just happens to be one of the largest/non-chinese suppliers of chrome moly steels. Onward, roverman.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    needle bearing mains would be pretty dang interesting... doesn't matter what size the mains are, one could get bearings made for them but $$$

    I wonder if anyone has been experimenting with this on a street driven engine??

    Problem with needle bearings is when they fail, it is far more damaging than a babbit style bearing

    '64 Riv

    '65 Special WAGON... turbo and EFI here I come
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...ntake-and-more

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    Default Re: 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    Quote Originally Posted by 87GN@Tahoe View Post
    needle bearing mains would be pretty dang interesting... doesn't matter what size the mains are, one could get bearings made for them but $$$

    I wonder if anyone has been experimenting with this on a street driven engine??

    Problem with needle bearings is when they fail, it is far more damaging than a babbit style bearing
    First Guess: Utter and complete waste of time, money, effort, and enthusiasm.

    By the time the crank is spinning fast enough to build a hydrodynamic wedge in the oil film, all the friction reduction of the needle bearing is moot. The load-carrying ability of the needle bearings will require main journals so huge that there'd be nothing left of the main saddles; the block would be horrifically weak.

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    Default Re: 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    Quote Originally Posted by Schurkey View Post
    First Guess: Utter and complete waste of time, money, effort, and enthusiasm.

    By the time the crank is spinning fast enough to build a hydrodynamic wedge in the oil film, all the friction reduction of the needle bearing is moot. The load-carrying ability of the needle bearings will require main journals so huge that there'd be nothing left of the main saddles; the block would be horrifically weak.
    >> I'm curious as to the vast area of expertise, you draw this conclusion ? Do you suppose Harley Davison and countless other four cycle motorcycle engines use "huge" needle/roller bearings? If nothing to gain, why do they bother ? The block is already weak for racing. It was never designed for racing. That's why it has 3" mains, to cut cost by using a cheaper cast crank. It was designed for good torque and reasonable hp, nothing else. Because the block is thin, it really can benefit from a good girdle design. Every stroke increase has additional parasitic losses, because increased inertia loads and windadge. Larger journals cost hp. through frictional losses. It seems few want to build a serious, stroked 300. TA heads,roller cams/etc. are available now. The block is likely stronger, by reason of shorter deck height. The 2.5" mains offer less friction. 350 exhaust ports side/side is not good for racing. Nearly all current designs, have moved away from this. 2 cents, roverman

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    Default Re: 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    Quote Originally Posted by roverman View Post
    >> I'm curious as to the vast area of expertise, you draw this conclusion ? Do you suppose Harley Davison and countless other four cycle motorcycle engines use "huge" needle/roller bearings? If nothing to gain, why do they bother ? The block is already weak for racing. It was never designed for racing. That's why it has 3" mains, to cut cost by using a cheaper cast crank. It was designed for good torque and reasonable hp, nothing else. Because the block is thin, it really can benefit from a good girdle design. Every stroke increase has additional parasitic losses, because increased inertia loads and windadge. Larger journals cost hp. through frictional losses. It seems few want to build a serious, stroked 300. TA heads,roller cams/etc. are available now. The block is likely stronger, by reason of shorter deck height. The 2.5" mains offer less friction. 350 exhaust ports side/side is not good for racing. Nearly all current designs, have moved away from this. 2 cents, roverman
    I've looked into using split needle bearings for a steam engine application, but am stuck on the outer race. The split bearings just have split cages and do not include outer races. Not wanting to spend the time, $$$, and risk damage to the block by prepping and using it as a "race", how does one go about that? "Fracturing" a regular one-peice race?

    Then there's the matter of the crank. I suppose a special hardening would be necessary for the journals?

    Seeing that all of this would potentially be "custom" parts (though off the shelf sizes may be close), why not step it up and go with needle cam bearings as well?

    Buicks would certainly benefit from the lower oiling needs of needle bearings. Making the oiling capacity available for other, more serious matters, like turbocharger(s)

    '64 Riv

    '65 Special WAGON... turbo and EFI here I come
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...ntake-and-more

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    Default Re: 4340 Billet Buick 350 Crank by Kings Crankshaft

    The typical engine that uses roller-bearings on the crankshafts does so because they have multi-piece cranks and one-piece rods, instead of one-piece cranks and two-piece rods.

    Thousands of years ago, there were aftermarket roller-bearing cranks for VW flat-four air-cooled engines, the crankshaft was pressed together from a fistful of precisely-machined forgings, the rod big-ends didn't have removable caps. The main point of one-piece rods was to eliminate rod bolt failure; a side benefit is somewhat reduced rod weight/mass/bulk. Another issue may have been the lack of forging machines in the aftermarket enormous enough to pop out a single-piece crank, but they had the tooling to forge smaller pieces--so they built what they could using a bunch of small pieces, and hydraulic presses to assemble the small pieces into a built-up larger item.

    Seems to me Suzuki (and Kawasaki???) used roller-bearing cranks in the early-80's; about the same deal. The GS1100 cranks were multi-piece, pressed-together messes; Suzi eventually took to welding them together ('82--'83, I think) because earlier cranks had a tendency to twist slightly at the press-fit joints, then the engine vibrated like mad if not exploded. I'm also thinking that Suzi dropped the multi-piece crank and roller bearings when they introduced the GSXR engines in mid-80's.

    If Harley is using roller-bearing cranks...all I can say is that perhaps it has some advantage in a fork-and-blade con rod arrangement. "I" would dump the fork-and-blade rods like a broken rubber, if I worked at Harley Engineering. I've never seen the inside of a Harley engine except for photos and drawings from years ago. I'd have expected plain rod bearings. Silly me. Maybe just the ends of the crank are supported in roller bearings--one roller bearing pressed into each case half??? Saves the cost of casting/machining main caps to hold the main bearings.

    The roller bearings seem to appreciate huge amounts of oil volume, but don't require much oil pressure at all. Perhaps the choice of roller bearing is sometimes dictated by the choice of oiling system? (i.e., very tolerant of interrupted oil supply, and tolerant of aerated oil, totally intolerant of particle-contaminated oil.)

    At any rate, NONE of these engines have the typical automotive engineering feature of a one-piece crankshaft with multiple main bearings along it's length. I'd expect that you'll have problems running a roller-bearing directly against a cast-crankshaft main journal, although it might work on a forged-crank main journal. Similarly, you'd have to have a hardened outer race, you couldn't run the rollers against the cast-iron of the block and caps. I have no idea how you handle the parting line of an inner or outer race--perhaps a diagonal (scarf-cut) or chevron-pattern split, so the bearings don't erode the parting line every time they roll across it???

    Quote Originally Posted by roverman View Post
    >> I'm curious as to the vast area of expertise, you draw this conclusion ? Do you suppose Harley Davison and countless other four cycle motorcycle engines use "huge" needle/roller bearings?
    If you consider that the plain bearing is--what?--maybe 1/8" to 3/16 thick; then you compare that to the thickness of the rollers plus the thickness of the outer race--how small does the main journal have to be?

    All the engines that are originally designed for roller bearings have the thickness of the bearing designed-into the journal diameter, and the block/case bearing supports. Installing roller bearings into a block/crankshaft originally set up for plain bearings is going to introduce a whole bunch of compromises--either reduced journal diameter or increased main saddle diameter. The Buick cannot afford any more weakness in the block...so all the extra space is going to have to be carved out of the crank journals. Now the unit loading of the rollers is likely way beyond design specs.

    I just don't see where the Buick has room for roller bearings on the crank. For that matter, I don't see where any automotive engine is a good candidate for roller-main-bearing conversion.

    The fact that no V-8, one-piece-crankshaft automotive, light- or heavy-duty truck engine uses roller crankshaft bearings should be considered to be evidence that it's not a practical design type.




    There was a time that folks were using roller-bearing camshafts. Another bit of wasted engineering as far as I'm concerned.

 

 
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