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  1. #1
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    Default Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    I have a 70 455 sf engine that i have rebuilt myself. 0,030 oversize cast pistons, ta288-94h camshaft, all New bearings, New timing cover.I have problem With noise from lifters (i think it is the lifters). The oil pressure is very good. I posted a tread about this earlier: http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...ters&highlight= I started the engine Cold Without the valve covers and it took 2 minutes idling before the oil came out of the pushrod holes. Is that normal ? Please help me, what could be wrong ? The engine have cam bearings from TA, grooved type. All New valve Train, adjustable pushrods 3/4 turn preload.

    ---------- Post added at 07:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 PM ----------

    Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuHi...ature=youtu.be
    Eivind Torsdalen, Lives in Seljord City , Norway
    -Buick 1966 Conv. 455/462 , TH2004R Level 3 Bowtie Overdrives.
    -1970 Buick GS 2dht 455 Stage 1 (Sloan Documented)

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    check your rocker arms, i'm assuming they are stock units. see if you can tell if it is coming from one side or the other. if it is louder on one side then swap around the rocker assemblies. if the noise changes sides then you know what it is. good luck, i went through this last year, have roller rockers now.
    paul c.
    65 skylark conv. 455/th400
    79 z28 w/a dart block and headed 555 bbc. hopefully 9.50
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    Quote Originally Posted by paul c View Post
    check your rocker arms, i'm assuming they are stock units. see if you can tell if it is coming from one side or the other. if it is louder on one side then swap around the rocker assemblies. if the noise changes sides then you know what it is. good luck, i went through this last year, have roller rockers now.
    Thanks Paul C, Can i use Stock cromed steel stage1 valvecovers With roller rockers ?
    Eivind Torsdalen, Lives in Seljord City , Norway
    -Buick 1966 Conv. 455/462 , TH2004R Level 3 Bowtie Overdrives.
    -1970 Buick GS 2dht 455 Stage 1 (Sloan Documented)

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    You can use stock rockers if you get the double thick valve cover gaskets from Finishline.
    Paul Massicotte
    MASSHOLE
    1966 Buick GS Post Coupe
    1970 Buick Skylark 455 4sp
    11.87 @ 117

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    Hey Eivind,

    As Paul stated it might be the stock rocker assemblies. I have tried the same thing, put on rollers and everything good. Had forgot about it and just made a motor with the stock set on. Noise is back.
    Jan

    1970 Buick GS 4 Speed " The Green Ghost "
    1971 Buick Race car " The Angry Ghost" 7.07 1/8th mile
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    Noise is only a symptom of the issue at hand. that being no oil up top. You get oil flowing out those push rods the noise will go away. My money is on a problem with the lifter itself. I believe they are not pumping up.
    ROA Member # 13359
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    Thanks for all reply. The rocker arms and shaft are brand New, i am suprised if they wil make noise. Would like roller rockers, but they are expensive. What about the fact that it takes two minutes of idling to get the oil trough the pushrods an up to the rocker arms ? When the car is idling With the valve covers of i got no oil on the inner fenders, the oil is coming slowly out of the rocker arms. A friend of mine told me that his Chevy engine would spill oil all over the engine compartment if the valve covers are off. Do i have to little oil to the pushrods and pushrods/rockers ? The engine sounds Nice, and have the choppy idle like this camshaft should have. Can i try With another type of engine oil ? I tried to lubricate the rocker arms With oil from a can, but no difference in the engine noise. What would be the next for me to try now ? Can it be a front cam bearing issue ? Please help, thanks.
    Eivind Torsdalen, Lives in Seljord City , Norway
    -Buick 1966 Conv. 455/462 , TH2004R Level 3 Bowtie Overdrives.
    -1970 Buick GS 2dht 455 Stage 1 (Sloan Documented)

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    50 psi is high at idle, does it go down when it gets warmed up?
    i had 50psi at idle and it would blow the filter seal at 3500rmp twice.

    it had 30 psi with a drill motor turning really slow.
    problem was in the oil pump.
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    Thanks. The oil pressure will drop when the engine get warm. I chanched the oil to 20w50 pennzoil, still valve train noise on both sides. Maybe the new camshaft failed during the startup procedure ? I have not lifted the intake off and inspected the camshaft and lifters, maybe this would be the next to do ? I wil be greatful for any advice, thanks.
    Eivind Torsdalen, Lives in Seljord City , Norway
    -Buick 1966 Conv. 455/462 , TH2004R Level 3 Bowtie Overdrives.
    -1970 Buick GS 2dht 455 Stage 1 (Sloan Documented)

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    Get that 20w/50 oil outta there, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to heavy an oil. 10w/30 is fine.
    71 GS 350 (mine)
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    Quote Originally Posted by Torsdalen View Post
    I have a 70 455 sf engine that i have rebuilt myself. 0,030 oversize cast pistons, ta288-94h camshaft, all New bearings, New timing cover.I have problem With noise from lifters (i think it is the lifters). The oil pressure is very good. I posted a tread about this earlier: http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...ters&highlight= I started the engine Cold Without the valve covers and it took 2 minutes idling before the oil came out of the pushrod holes. Is that normal ? Please help me, what could be wrong ? The engine have cam bearings from TA, grooved type. All New valve Train, adjustable pushrods 3/4 turn preload. What method did you use to set the pre-load on the lifters?

    ---------- Post added at 07:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 PM ----------

    Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuHi...ature=youtu.be
    What method did you use to set the pre-load on the lifters? Was the intake off when you set the pre-load? What valve springs are you using?

    Quote Originally Posted by Torsdalen View Post
    Thanks for all reply. The rocker arms and shaft are brand New, i am suprised if they wil make noise. Would like roller rockers, but they are expensive. What about the fact that it takes two minutes of idling to get the oil trough the pushrods an up to the rocker arms ? When the car is idling With the valve covers of i got no oil on the inner fenders, the oil is coming slowly out of the rocker arms. A friend of mine told me that his Chevy engine would spill oil all over the engine compartment if the valve covers are off. Do i have to little oil to the pushrods and pushrods/rockers ? The engine sounds Nice, and have the choppy idle like this camshaft should have. Can i try With another type of engine oil ? I tried to lubricate the rocker arms With oil from a can, but no difference in the engine noise. What would be the next for me to try now ? Can it be a front cam bearing issue ? Please help, thanks.
    The front cam bearing should be set in approx .125 to complete the oil circuit to the drivers side of engine. If that is installed wrong the lifters will be noisey on the drivers side only. What brand of lifters are you using? The passenger side lifters are fed from the same oil circuit that the mains are so if you have a oil problem there your mains will also. Are the push rods 5/16's adjustables? Have you checked for witness marks on the push rods where the might be rubbing where they pass through the heads?
    70 stage1 clone 464 iron STG1 heads, 4.11 gears 10 10.17@129.8
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    Thanks for reply. The pushrods are 5/16 adustable TA1428. The camshaft and lifters are from TA (TA288-94H) I have set the preload 3 times, the first time With the intake off. The second time 1 turn and the Third time 0,5 to 0,75 turn. I have the dual super springs from TA and the correct retainers for the springs. Rocker arms and shaft are New "Stock type" steel. The front cam bearing are TA With grooved back side. I installed the front cam bearing correct, like TA said (lifter/valve Train noise are on both sides) I have not checked the pushrods for marks. The oil pressure is good, 50 psi Cold engine at 1000rpm. First startup after rebuilding engine it took many minutes befor i got oil to the rockers, i had to lubricat them by hand until the oil came out of the pushrod holes. Maybe the oil are leaking out from the lifter to pushrod ? The pushrods are turning around while the engine is running, so thats ok. Thanks for taking Your time. Best Eivind
    Eivind Torsdalen, Lives in Seljord City , Norway
    -Buick 1966 Conv. 455/462 , TH2004R Level 3 Bowtie Overdrives.
    -1970 Buick GS 2dht 455 Stage 1 (Sloan Documented)

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    The engine sounds lika a sewing machine
    Eivind Torsdalen, Lives in Seljord City , Norway
    -Buick 1966 Conv. 455/462 , TH2004R Level 3 Bowtie Overdrives.
    -1970 Buick GS 2dht 455 Stage 1 (Sloan Documented)

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    Quote Originally Posted by Torsdalen View Post
    I have a 70 455 sf engine that i have rebuilt myself...New bearings, New timing cover.I have problem With noise from lifters (i think it is the lifters).
    When you installed the "New Timing Cover" did you re-use the oil pump? Did you replace it with a new unit? If you reused the old oil pump, that may be your issue. This would lead to the lack of oil at the lifters which would transition into lack of oil through the push rods and the following rockers...

    If you have another set of oil pump gears and/or housing, I'd swap them and see if you can replicate the noisy running condition.

    V/R

    Mark Richards

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    If you decide to tear the intake off I would at that point put in some Comp Cams Pro Magnum lifters. They have a checkball in them and they will not bleed down and you will get more rpm (200-500) out of the motor with these. They hardly need any preload to operate. They have a real nice solid retainer on top to help give that light preload. They almost act like solids and will help out cams that have a fast ramp. This has been in my motor for 10 years now and I am using the Pop Mechanics cam but it is in a 350. 230-245 116 507-502 lift
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Richards View Post
    When you installed the "New Timing Cover" did you re-use the oil pump? Did you replace it with a new unit? If you reused the old oil pump, that may be your issue. This would lead to the lack of oil at the lifters which would transition into lack of oil through the push rods and the following rockers...

    If you have another set of oil pump gears and/or housing, I'd swap them and see if you can replicate the noisy running condition.

    V/R

    Mark Richards
    Thanks Mark. I have New oil pump gears from TA correct installed With correct clearance (i used the gasket set from TA With diffrent gasket thickness) I Guess the oil pump cover clearance is correct when i have 50psi oil pressure at 1000rpm Cold engine ?

    ---------- Post added at 03:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox's Den View Post
    If you decide to tear the intake off I would at that point put in some Comp Cams Pro Magnum lifters. They have a checkball in them and they will not bleed down and you will get more rpm (200-500) out of the motor with these. They hardly need any preload to operate. They have a real nice solid retainer on top to help give that light preload. They almost act like solids and will help out cams that have a fast ramp. This has been in my motor for 10 years now and I am using the Pop Mechanics cam but it is in a 350. 230-245 116 507-502 lift
    Thanks ! I may do that .
    Eivind Torsdalen, Lives in Seljord City , Norway
    -Buick 1966 Conv. 455/462 , TH2004R Level 3 Bowtie Overdrives.
    -1970 Buick GS 2dht 455 Stage 1 (Sloan Documented)

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    Hey torsdalen

    How many miles did you run with this engine? Mine was also a bit loud after rebuild, but after 1000 Miles its very quit.... 230/240 118 LSA
    I have the same detected with the long oil time, i primered the pump and it comes no oil out of the pushrods. After 1-2 Min Idleing the oil was coming...

    be cool

    Rob

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    Default Re: Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    Quote Originally Posted by Robs455 View Post
    Hey torsdalen

    How many miles did you run with this engine? Mine was also a bit loud after rebuild, but after 1000 Miles its very quit.... 230/240 118 LSA
    I have the same detected with the long oil time, i primered the pump and it comes no oil out of the pushrods. After 1-2 Min Idleing the oil was coming...

    be cool

    Rob
    Thanks Rob. I have barely used the car. Just a few miles. Thanks for advice, i will drive the car for a while before i considder lifting the intake off. What engine oil do you use Rob ? I switched from 15w40 to 20w50
    Eivind Torsdalen, Lives in Seljord City , Norway
    -Buick 1966 Conv. 455/462 , TH2004R Level 3 Bowtie Overdrives.
    -1970 Buick GS 2dht 455 Stage 1 (Sloan Documented)

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    Get that 20w/50 oil outta there, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to heavy an oil. 10w/30 is fine.

    I too agree, way to heavy for a fresh tight motor. Ive spun a rod bearing before on 20-50, back when i was young and dumb.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomaswarlord View Post
    I too agree, way to heavy for a fresh tight motor. Ive spun a rod bearing before on 20-50, back when i was young and dumb.
    Thanks Thomas
    Eivind Torsdalen, Lives in Seljord City , Norway
    -Buick 1966 Conv. 455/462 , TH2004R Level 3 Bowtie Overdrives.
    -1970 Buick GS 2dht 455 Stage 1 (Sloan Documented)

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Demko View Post
    Get that 20w/50 oil outta there, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to heavy an oil. 10w/30 is fine.
    INdeed - I think if I were you (OP), I'd drop the oil out and put some 5W-20 in there for a little bit and see what happens. 15W-40 is also WAY too heavy. You really do need to be running 10W-30, however 5W-20 will work great for the break-in period. Also - I hope you followed a good camshaft break-in procedure....sounds like you may not have - especially if you were running too heavy of an oil - which I suspect you were.

    Quote Originally Posted by buicksstage1 View Post
    The front cam bearing should be set in approx .125 to complete the oil circuit to the drivers side of engine.
    I'd like to see a good picture of this. Got any links?
    ​I like junk

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    Thanks for reply. I used 5w30 syntetich for breakin prosedure. I got a water leak and noise from the rockers (i lubricated by hand until the oil came out of the pushrods, took a few minutes). So the important breakin prosedure failed.
    Eivind Torsdalen, Lives in Seljord City , Norway
    -Buick 1966 Conv. 455/462 , TH2004R Level 3 Bowtie Overdrives.
    -1970 Buick GS 2dht 455 Stage 1 (Sloan Documented)

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    Quote Originally Posted by Torsdalen View Post
    I started the engine Cold Without the valve covers and it took 2 minutes idling before the oil came out of the pushrod holes. Is that normal?
    Well, I can tell you that I don't like the sound of that. I hope you mean you were idling at 2000-2500 rpm because that is where you should be for breaking in a new cam. Not idling at 800 rpm.

    That being said you should be getting oil squirting out of the tops of the rocker arms and getting it all over the place without those valve covers on. That is your problem. It doesn't matter if you had straight 50 oil in there it should still be circulating. The 20W-50 might be hard on the distributer gear on cold startup but it should still be coming out of those pushrod tips.

    Also forget roller rockers. Don't waste time unless you actually have all defective stock rockers. For the most part rollers are noisier than the stockers otherwise GM would be using them for quieter engines. It still comes down to no oil up there.

    We just ran into a problem with my buddies 455 which we put a used cam in with unknown lifters that were matched to the cam. He bought it used and it looked very good as far as the lobes go. It started fine but didn't really deliver much oil to the rockers, barely a few drops and no squirting. Plenty of oil pressure. Needless to say the cam didn't last very long. So we installed a new cam with a set of Crower Cam Saver lifters and there is oil all over the place now. It is the strangest thing I ever saw in a 455 where the lifters just wouldn't get oil up through the pushrod. I took one apart and it seemed fine?????? I wish I knew what brand they were and yet they worked fine in the engine that they came out of. Strange.

    Just for fun while the intake was off after the new cam was in but before the pushrods were installed we primed the oil pump with a drill and oil came out all over the Crower lifters and one old lifter I slid in a hole just for fun barely had any coming out. The amount cut down once the pushrods were installed and barely any came out of the pushrods when primed but once started the oil came to the rockers within seconds(all good lifters of course.). I believe it takes movement of the lifter through its cycle to allow a decent flow of oil up to the rockers. Priming a static engine just won't do it. I'd pop the intake and do the primer trick to see what you are dealing with. If you don't have oil coming out the tops of the lifters you've got problems.

    One thing to check when the intake is off is to make sure there is no cam damage by observing that all the lifters are rising about the same amount as the engine is cranked. The differences between some of the lobes on my buddies cam was easy to see when cranked.

    One other thought. Is there a chance you have a set of the '69 and earlier lifters that don't oil through the pushrods? Anyway you do it get the intake off and prime it up with a drill and see what happens.
    Mike Pesarchick
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    Default Re: Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    Quote Originally Posted by Torsdalen View Post
    Thanks Rob. I have barely used the car. Just a few miles. Thanks for advice, i will drive the car for a while before i considder lifting the intake off. What engine oil do you use Rob ? I switched from 15w40 to 20w50
    Break in was with a break in oil from miller 5w30 and i added a zddp additive. Now i use 5w30 with ZDDP,because the mainsbearing clearance is only 0.025".
    What clearance have you on the mains? Your oil pressure should be 50 PSI and hot 30 PSI at 700 RPM.

    Check your rocker arm place holders, i mean the with plastic things, i saw one cracked and the rockarm was able to slide and stuck in the direction of the shaft. This action can produce worse sound.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Noise from lifters after rebuild buick 455

    I have two engines with that cam and both have a bit of a sewing machine sound. They were built by two different people, so I think you are hearing what is normal for that cam.

    As for potential oiling issues, that's a whole other matter.
    Ken Lisk
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