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  1. #1
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    Sep 2013
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    Pittsburgh
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    Default HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    Hi all, I have a 61 LeSabre with a Rochester two barrel. The previous owner put an electronic choke on. Cheap POS and wired it to the coil. Not sure what he was thinking???? Anyway, I want to put is back to stock. For the life of me I cannot figure out where the heat tube connects to the manifold or exhaust manifold????

    Any help would be much appreciated.

    I also need the stock choke parts and heat tube, any good supplier suggestions?

    thanks,
    Kensey
    Pittsburgh

  2. #2
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    Jun 2010
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    Birmingham Alabama
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    Default Re: HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    on the manifold, there is a small nipple that the heat tube attaches to.

    or you can buy a choke stove that attaches on a convenient place on the manifold. (it's what I did...)
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "Bulldog" James A. Miller

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
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    Pittsburgh
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    50

    Default Re: HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    I don't think my manifold has the nipple. So some have it, some don't? Is that right, seems weird.
    I'll check again tonight, but I swear it's not there.

    What would have been the stock set up on a car with no nipple?

    thanks,
    Kensey

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Mid-south central Indiana
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    Default Re: HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    From the service manual, under the section pertaining to the 2-barrel Rochester carb:

    g. Operation of Choice System
    The choke system is composed of a thermostatic coil, vacuum choke piston, offset chokevalve, fast idle cam and choke linkage. Itsoperation is controlled by a combination ofintake manifold vacuum, the offset choke valve,atmospheric temperature and exhaust manifoldheat. See Figure 3-22.
    The choke thermostatic coil is calibrated to hold the choke valve closed when the engine is cold. When the engine is started, air velocity against the offset choke valve causes the valve to open slightly against the torque of the thermostatic coil. In addition, intake manifold vacuum applied to the choke piston through the vacuum passage tends to open the choke valve.Vacuum pull on the choke piston is offset by the tension of the thermostatic coil. As the engine warms up, heated air is drawn into the choke housing through the choke heat tube through a passage in the choke housing. As the engine temperature increases, it causes the thermostatic coil to relax its tension, which together with vacuum pull on the choke piston and air flow against the offset choke valve causes the choke valve to open gradually until the engine is thoroughly warmed up, at which point the choke valve is fully opened.
    A mechanical choke unloader is incorporated to open the choke valve slightly when the engine is cold. The choke unloader provides a means for opening the choke valve to correct any loading condition encountered during cold starting.
    To prevent stalling during the warm-up period, it is necessary to run the engine at a slightly higher idle speed than for a warm engine.This is accomplished by steps on the fast idle cam. The fast idle cam is in turn linked to the choke valve shaft by the choke rod, choke trip lever and choke lever and collar assembly.This holds the throttle valves open sufficiently during the warm-up period to give increased idle RPM until the choke valve moves to the fully open position and the engine is thoroughly warmed up.

    When I get out to the garage today I will snap a few pictures of mine. Even though it is a Stromberg, the nipple on the exhaust manifold should be the same I would think.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Just a message from Doug...

    1961 LeSabre 4 dr. sedan (4469)

    Past Buicks I have owned

    1963 LeSabre
    1965 Electra 225
    1966 Special
    1967 Electra 225
    1968 Riviera
    1973 Electra 225
    1975 Century

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Mid-south central Indiana
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    464

    Default Re: HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    Okay, here are 3 pictures of the tube and a close up of the nipple area. I've moved my tube out of the way so you can see the actual nipple. You can see where it is in relationship to the oil dipstick. That should give you a good place to look.

    By the way, I need a new tube for mine or at least a better way for it to connect at the manifold. It has rusted off over the years and now I just kind of stick it in there.

    HTH
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Just a message from Doug...

    1961 LeSabre 4 dr. sedan (4469)

    Past Buicks I have owned

    1963 LeSabre
    1965 Electra 225
    1966 Special
    1967 Electra 225
    1968 Riviera
    1973 Electra 225
    1975 Century

  6. #6
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    Sep 2013
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    Pittsburgh
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    Default Re: HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    Mosslack,

    Thanks a lot!!!!! This really helps. I'll look when I get home, but I swear i'm nipple-less. Ha!

    thanks,
    Kensey

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Macungie, PA
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    1,513

    Default Re: HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    I have 2 of the tubes, NOS. They were sold without the insulation. Would sell for $42 each, shipped to US48 address.
    John

  8. #8
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    Sep 2013
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    Pittsburgh
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    Default Re: HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    Also considering just going with a manual choke. Not stock, but will work.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Mid-south central Indiana
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    Default Re: HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    Quote Originally Posted by Nailhead View Post
    I have 2 of the tubes, NOS. They were sold without the insulation. Would sell for $42 each, shipped to US48 address.
    John
    Hey John, how is the connection made at the nipple? Does the tube just stick into the nipple or is there more to it? I'm thinking mine may be broken off inside the nipple itself so that would need to be fixed first.
    Just a message from Doug...

    1961 LeSabre 4 dr. sedan (4469)

    Past Buicks I have owned

    1963 LeSabre
    1965 Electra 225
    1966 Special
    1967 Electra 225
    1968 Riviera
    1973 Electra 225
    1975 Century

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Macungie, PA
    Posts
    1,513

    Default Re: HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    The tube is just an interference fit to the nipple. It's 1/4" OD. The end of the old tube is probably rusted off in nipple as you suspect. I've used copper tubing as a replacement when originality didn't matter.
    John

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Mid-south central Indiana
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    464

    Default Re: HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    Quote Originally Posted by Nailhead View Post
    The tube is just an interference fit to the nipple. It's 1/4" OD. The end of the old tube is probably rusted off in nipple as you suspect. I've used copper tubing as a replacement when originality didn't matter.
    John
    That is what I thought. I can probably use a drill bit to clean it out. I was planning to see if I could find a steel tube that diameter and use my tube bender to shape it. I believe it's just a flared fitting on the end which connects to the carb. Thanks!
    Just a message from Doug...

    1961 LeSabre 4 dr. sedan (4469)

    Past Buicks I have owned

    1963 LeSabre
    1965 Electra 225
    1966 Special
    1967 Electra 225
    1968 Riviera
    1973 Electra 225
    1975 Century

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Bucks County, Pa
    Posts
    5,780

    Default Re: HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    Quote Originally Posted by mosslack View Post
    That is what I thought. I can probably use a drill bit to clean it out. I was planning to see if I could find a steel tube that diameter and use my tube bender to shape it. I believe it's just a flared fitting on the end which connects to the carb. Thanks!
    Yes, even steel brake line will work and is easy to bend. The fitting at the carb is a ferrule/nut combo that can be purchased from a hardware store.... look in the plumbing section.
    Walt K
    (1)'66 GS Astro Blue, 13.41 et (2)'66 GS Saddle Mist, L76 Q-jet option, 1 of 132 (3)'66 GS Flame Red, Calif car (4)'66 GS Silver Mist, 4 speed (5)'66 Special, Flame Red, 300 (6)'79 Turbo Regal, 14.1 et (7)'65 GS 4 speed 'vert

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Mid-south central Indiana
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    Default Re: HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    Quote Originally Posted by wkillgs View Post
    Yes, even steel brake line will work and is easy to bend. The fitting at the carb is a ferrule/nut combo that can be purchased from a hardware store.... look in the plumbing section.
    The Rochesters may use a ferrule/nut compression type fitting, but the one of my Stromberg is flared as you can see in the picture below.

    Next question, how far does the tube slid into the nipple? I want to make sure I get all of the old tube out.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Just a message from Doug...

    1961 LeSabre 4 dr. sedan (4469)

    Past Buicks I have owned

    1963 LeSabre
    1965 Electra 225
    1966 Special
    1967 Electra 225
    1968 Riviera
    1973 Electra 225
    1975 Century

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Mid-south central Indiana
    Posts
    464

    Default Re: HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    This looks to be a good solution.

    http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...%29+-+domestic

    I think a couple of feet would do it, but at only 89 cents a foot might as well get a extra foot. Flare the carb end and slide my insulation over it and presto, new choke tube!
    Just a message from Doug...

    1961 LeSabre 4 dr. sedan (4469)

    Past Buicks I have owned

    1963 LeSabre
    1965 Electra 225
    1966 Special
    1967 Electra 225
    1968 Riviera
    1973 Electra 225
    1975 Century

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Medway, MA
    Posts
    8,495

    Default Re: HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    Do bear in mind that there has to be an air intake for the exhaust manifold heat tube. Some of the older cars have a second tube that runs back to the air cleaner to provide filtered air to the choke. Some cars just have a tube pressed into the exhaust manifold with the bottom open. Be sure that when suction is applied to the choke tube opening in the exhaust manifold, that there is air flow. If not, the entire project will be a waste of time.
    John Codman
    Formerly owned Buicks:
    '33,'48, '51, '52, '54, '55 (3), '56, '60 LeSabre 3 sp stick.
    264 powered '53 Mercury
    322 then 264 powered 55 Ford
    264 powered '56 Chevy
    Presently - 431 nailhead powered '82 C-10

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Mid-south central Indiana
    Posts
    464

    Default Re: HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    Quote Originally Posted by John Codman View Post
    Do bear in mind that there has to be an air intake for the exhaust manifold heat tube. Some of the older cars have a second tube that runs back to the air cleaner to provide filtered air to the choke. Some cars just have a tube pressed into the exhaust manifold with the bottom open. Be sure that when suction is applied to the choke tube opening in the exhaust manifold, that there is air flow. If not, the entire project will be a waste of time.
    Okay, I just drilled mine out. Had to remove the generator and use an extension with the drill bit to get the right angle, but it is clear now the entire length of the nipple, about 5/8 of an inch or so. Where does the air come in from on this one? It only has the single tube running up to the Stromberg 2 barrel carb.

    FYI, I was able to use my original tube, just had to re-bend it a bit. I started the car and the choke seems to work right. Loads up a bit at cold start, but clears up as it should after running a few minutes.

    Now I need to drill out the threads on the generator adjustment hole as it stripped when I put it back onto it's mount. Always something!
    Just a message from Doug...

    1961 LeSabre 4 dr. sedan (4469)

    Past Buicks I have owned

    1963 LeSabre
    1965 Electra 225
    1966 Special
    1967 Electra 225
    1968 Riviera
    1973 Electra 225
    1975 Century

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Birmingham Alabama
    Posts
    9,673

    Default Re: HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    I got a choke stove kit from NAPA
    The stove strapped onto the manifold
    "Bulldog" James A. Miller

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    50

    Default Re: HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    So I decided to put a manual choke on the Rochester 2bbl on my 61 today. Got it hooked up and working good. Stock air cleaner won't fit. WTF...

    Crossroads: Switch back to the stock set up, which I don't have the stock chock spring and side cover. Had a ****ty electronic one on it. OR, switch to an aftermarket air cleaner. Don't they have better air flow anyways? (Good justification right????)

    What is a good way to close off the exhaust manifold nipple?

    Thoughts?

  19. #19
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    Birmingham Alabama
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    Default Re: HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    There's no need to close off the hole.
    The other side of the hole is open to the atmosphere.
    Exhaust does not flow through it.
    "Bulldog" James A. Miller

  20. #20
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    Sep 2013
    Location
    Pittsburgh
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    Default Re: HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    Really? Now I'm a bit confused. I thought the nipple went through to the inside if the exhaust manifold. So exhaust does not flow through the heat tube to the carb spring? Is it just heat then??

    Someone please explain this to me, totally confused...

    thanks

  21. #21
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    Jun 2010
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    Birmingham Alabama
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    Default Re: HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    Just heated air.
    No exhaust.
    No pressure.
    As the exhaust warms the manifold , the manifold warms the air in the tube.
    The warm air travels up to the thermostatic spring on the choke. As the thermostatic spring warms up, it twists the choke open.
    "Bulldog" James A. Miller

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
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    Default Re: HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    I came to my senses and changed direction. I am putting together the needed pieces to put it back to stock.

    QUESTIONS:
    -Is the insulated white wrap needed on the heat tube?
    -The nipple on the exhaust manifold just inserts into the heat tube correct? Any kind of clamp?
    -Can brake line be used to make the heat tube?

    thanks all!
    Kensey

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Medway, MA
    Posts
    8,495

    Default Re: HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    There is a hole drilled all the way through the exhaust manifold, then a steel tube is pressed into the hole that passes all the way through the manifold. In some cases the bottom of the tube is left open; in older cars there is usually a tube leading from the air filter to the bottom of the pressed in tube. If there is no filter, every few years you will have to take the choke apart and clean the crud out of it.
    John Codman
    Formerly owned Buicks:
    '33,'48, '51, '52, '54, '55 (3), '56, '60 LeSabre 3 sp stick.
    264 powered '53 Mercury
    322 then 264 powered 55 Ford
    264 powered '56 Chevy
    Presently - 431 nailhead powered '82 C-10

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Mid-south central Indiana
    Posts
    464

    Default Re: HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kensey View Post
    I came to my senses and changed direction. I am putting together the needed pieces to put it back to stock.

    QUESTIONS:
    -Is the insulated white wrap needed on the heat tube?
    -The nipple on the exhaust manifold just inserts into the heat tube correct? Any kind of clamp?
    -Can brake line be used to make the heat tube?

    thanks all!
    Kensey
    I think the insulation is there to keep you from getting burned, but I suppose it does keep the heat in the tube better than without it. Most of the vehicles I have had did not have insulation there, but those were all Chevys.

    Not sure about the nipple. I know when I drilled mine out, I just drilled until I saw shiny metal shavings come out. Figured all of the old tube was out at that point.

    Yes, brake line can be used. I plan to use about 3 feet of this:

    http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...%29+-+domestic

    The way it is now, it fits back into the freshly drilled nipple, but as mine had rusted off, the bend is very near the end and I prefer to have it come straight out of the nipple and then put a bend in it to go up towards the carb. May get to it today I hope.
    Just a message from Doug...

    1961 LeSabre 4 dr. sedan (4469)

    Past Buicks I have owned

    1963 LeSabre
    1965 Electra 225
    1966 Special
    1967 Electra 225
    1968 Riviera
    1973 Electra 225
    1975 Century

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Birmingham Alabama
    Posts
    9,673

    Default Re: HELP Heat Tube from Carb???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kensey View Post
    -Is the insulated white wrap needed on the heat tube?
    Yes. Else, the air in the tube will cool off and the choke won't open as soon as it should. The original was probably asbestos. I don't reckon you can get that anymore. Mine has a woven insulation on it. I'm not sure what the material is...
    Quote Originally Posted by Kensey View Post
    -The nipple on the exhaust manifold just inserts into the heat tube correct? Any kind of clamp?
    That's the way I remember mine being . Seems, I remember, it went all the way through the manifold and had a flare on the far side to keep it from being pulled back through. (much like a brake line flare). But, it rotted away and, (13 years ago) I went with an after market universal kit that has a stove that straps on the manifold at a convenient place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kensey View Post
    -Can brake line be used to make the heat tube?
    I don't see why that wouldn't work.

    ---------- Post added at 11:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:18 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by John Codman View Post
    There is a hole drilled all the way through the exhaust manifold, then a steel tube is pressed into the hole that passes all the way through the manifold. In some cases the bottom of the tube is left open; in older cars there is usually a tube leading from the air filter to the bottom of the pressed in tube. If there is no filter, every few years you will have to take the choke apart and clean the crud out of it.
    Seems, I remember Dad put a bit of steel wool inside the choke stove as a filter.....
    I'm beginning to recollect that that is why dad wanted go with an after market choke stove, so he could add a filter...
    "Bulldog" James A. Miller

 

 
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