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  1. #1
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    Default Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    .. bought my wife a 2012 Golf TDi with Tech Package (.. basically fully loaded) in late 2013 with 8k on the Odo. About to turn 60k (extended warranty runs out) .. She still LOVES the car but besides the whole TDi scandal its got the MKVI motor with the crummy Delphi HPFP that grenades taking out the whole fuel system from tank to injectors ($8K repair cost BUT VW finally acknowledged the problem and say they will cover 10yrs/120K).

    .. and who-knows what their "fix" is going to be for the whole emissions scandal - it will certainly either reduce power or fuel economy .. or both. Resale value is in the toilet .. she drives for a living (visiting nurse driving to 8-12 homes per day) so having a car that has a warranty is important.

    To date, the Golf has been nothing but a pleasure to own and drive. The idea was to upgrade this year to the slightly larger Golf SportWagon TDi but now they're holding sales on all their diesels.

    .. just wondering if anyone else is in this boiling kettle and what your plans are for the future
    Alan W

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    Quote Originally Posted by 442w30 View Post
    ... They have awkward proportions from certain angles, and they look dumpy compared to their GM brethren
    ....'68 SportWagon400 "Sportn'Wood"..............'69 GS400 Convert "BigRed"..........

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    We have two VW's but neither one is a TDI. If I had one there is no way I would take it in for the "fix". Who wants less power and worse fuel mileage? Not me...
    Mike B.
    1968 GS400
    2004 Pontiac GTO (Sold!)
    GSCA #1004
    BPG #1264

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    in all likelyhood, EPA will tie this into State DMV and unless recall is performed, no registration renewal will be allowed.
    Alan W

    BPG # 1048 - Charter Member
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    What is a Buick StepChild ?
    Quote Originally Posted by 442w30 View Post
    ... They have awkward proportions from certain angles, and they look dumpy compared to their GM brethren
    ....'68 SportWagon400 "Sportn'Wood"..............'69 GS400 Convert "BigRed"..........

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    Alan,
    I bought a used 2009 TDI Jetta a couple years back for a job that had me commuting 550 miles a week. I love the car, for a vehicle that gets me 44+ MPG on the highway it has a semblance of power and has been a reliable car. I've left that job now and would consider selling the car but like you I'm waiting for the other foot to fall. I keep hearing about the possibility of a buy back but that would be probably too good to be true.
    Last edited by htrdbuick; 03-08-2016 at 09:29 PM.
    Tom Lynch
    66 Wildcat GS
    71 GS Convertible

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    Alan, you should be getting a lot closer to resolution later this month. A Federal Judge where the case was original filed against VW out in Northern California issued an order a little more than a week ago requiring VW to disclose its plan to repair the affected engines or admit it can't within 30 days. VW has released planned fixes for several diesel engines in Audis and some larger diesels in VWs, but curiously for the last four months has not released any proposed fixes, etc. Note that it also has come out that many of VW's competitor's power train engineers have provided European and US Regulators with test results and other engineering and testing data showing that these other manufacturers individually had all tried to emulate VW's claimed 'Clean Diesel' system - from intake to exhaust tip and everything in between including the ECU - and were never able to figure out for years how VW was magically able to get it to work. My point being this is going to be an EPIC penalty of Biblical proportions for VW.

    The US DOT earlier this year changed some regulations regarding eligible manufacturer penalties in terms of available remedies (type) and scope (amount) of damages. I have read from multiple legal authorities that this is widely seen as a 'clearing the path' for a 'fitting penalty'. What does this mean, the penalty will be HUGE and punitive. One of the changed penalty regulations was to allow the US DOT to be able to require a violator to have to build out actual infrastructure in the US. There is speculation that the US DOT and US DOJ are considering requiring VW to actually pay for the build-out of electrical recharge stations and/or alternative fuel stations to some degree .... and not a handful either.

    You are spot on about the enforcement end game with states eventually refusing to renew registrations on the affected non-conforming VW diesels. That is how the US DOT and US EPA will finish this off eventually and put pressure on resolution ... they won't take the property away, they will just make it worthless as a functional transportation device on public roads.

    The good news, as I see it, is that this issue is sooooo big (so many US Consumers), that the US DOJ can't push the Consumers affected (Owner's) downstream very far regarding compensation for them and penalties imposed by gov't, i.e., Consumers are going to have to be accounted for early on with an approved compensation plan (assuming a fix is not forthcoming for the majority of US VW 2.0 TDIs) pretty quickly and possibly before the US DOT or US DOJ announce the Federal penalty. This is a HUGE deal because the litigation and damage claims will go on for years from other entities .... States, Dealers, Distributors, Consumers who "opt out" of the class settlement whatever that is. European Countries and public and private entities there ..... other Countries and entities on other continents .... Brazil, Argentina .... Hay-Suess Christo!!!??? Where does it end? VW (Corporate) has been busy spinning off some of its other companies like the heavy truck division because when this exposure and the seemingly endless nature of it is fully known, these other sub-companies won't be able even get lines of credit unless the exposure and link to VW is severed.

    When you consider all the exposures involved, it frankly would probably be cheaper for VW to literally give a new car to Consumers assuming VW can extinguish all liabilities to the Consumer in one transaction. A partial credit doesn't cut it here. The carrot (incentive) has to be convincing, errrr, enticing.
    Ken
    --------------------------------------------------
    "Life's tough......It's even tougher if you're stupid."
    -John Wayne

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    Ken is spot on. Hold tight for now.
    Jim Lore
    BPG 1037
    "If you cannot clear up the confusion at least make the confusion clear."

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    Alan--- for an interesting update on the VW issue see page B1 of today's Wall Street Journal.
    Jim Lore
    BPG 1037
    "If you cannot clear up the confusion at least make the confusion clear."

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    I own a 2012 Touareg TDI Lux with 67,000 miles. To be honest I haven't lost a minute of sleep over the whole situation. I recently received VW's "goodwill" package of $500 service card and $500 debit card. The $500 debit card will be used to pay for an American Autowire wiring harness for my '64 Skylark. I love the Touareg and it's near 30 mpg highway mileage, not to mention the 420 lb/ft of torque the 3.0 liter V6 delivers.
    64 Skylark Convertible
    462 w/ Stage 2 heads, TA 212 cam, B4B intake
    TKO600
    3.73 12 Bolt w/ TruTrac and Moser axles

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    Thanks for the replies .. especially Ken - very informative.

    Im not in any rush and we figured we'd ride it out until VW officially posts what their intentions are.

    .. With a possible EPA fine north of $37,000 PER VEHICLE and the Golf/Beetle's original MSRP quite a bit lower than that, you'd think from a loyalty standpoint it would be a no-brainer for them to just to buy back / swap out for a new car. Problem is - it can't be a new TDi because they haven't "fixed" those yet. From what I've read there are literally thousands and thousands of them being held in port here for the ones that shipped.
    Alan W

    BPG # 1048 - Charter Member
    NE GS/GN Club - 17 Year Member
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    What is a Buick StepChild ?
    Quote Originally Posted by 442w30 View Post
    ... They have awkward proportions from certain angles, and they look dumpy compared to their GM brethren
    ....'68 SportWagon400 "Sportn'Wood"..............'69 GS400 Convert "BigRed"..........

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    Per this mornings Wall Street Journal the federal court judge assigned to the multi state litigation ordered VW to declare it's fix by no later than March 24, 2016.
    Jim Lore
    BPG 1037
    "If you cannot clear up the confusion at least make the confusion clear."

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynbuick View Post
    Alan--- for an interesting update on the VW issue see page B1 of today's Wall Street Journal.
    Here is an online unlocked article: http://www.autonews.com/article/2016...emplate=mobile
    Ken
    --------------------------------------------------
    "Life's tough......It's even tougher if you're stupid."
    -John Wayne

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    I have 2003 VW Tdi. Has many performance mods and goes like mad with low end torque like a Buick. Well before there were issues. The car has very few emission controls. It still gets 50 mpg and blows big billowing clouds of black smoke. Love every minute of it. Find an old one if you can.
    Dave, Seeing Yellow
    71 GS Stage-1 Now Sold.

    Now have real 70 GSX 4 Speed QQ

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    Quote Originally Posted by copperheadgs1 View Post
    .. Find an old one if you can.
    Nooo .. this isn't a toy for this Buick Boy

    It is daily transportation that CAN NOT FAIL at 5am when my wife starts her nursing rounds on the road. She puts between 20-25K miles a year on her cars. Its got to have a warranty and its got to be deadly reliable ..

    .. I learned my lesson with her last car (2005 Saab 9-2x Aero M5 .. basically a Subaru WRX) letting it go too long because she "Loved" it. At 125K it started opening my wallet pretty regularly and at 175K I cried "UNCLE". Still hard to believe she was banging gears with that stick for so many miles. Gotta love a woman who not only can drive - but chooses to drive a 3 pedal car.
    Alan W

    BPG # 1048 - Charter Member
    NE GS/GN Club - 17 Year Member
    68/69 Buick StepChild Nation - 29 Year Member

    What is a Buick StepChild ?
    Quote Originally Posted by 442w30 View Post
    ... They have awkward proportions from certain angles, and they look dumpy compared to their GM brethren
    ....'68 SportWagon400 "Sportn'Wood"..............'69 GS400 Convert "BigRed"..........

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    Our 99 Beetle is a TDI. I have the EGR removed..Gets 52-54 mpg all day..Wish my 99 2.0 was that good... Try and buy an Audi with a TDI..
    Pat Harmon
    1970 QQ GSX back half car
    1970 462 Skylark

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    Here's my take on it .Dont hold your breath waiting for VW to buy back or give you a new car for your used TDI . EPA DOT ect is not going to start ordering registration cancellations neither. I dont think they have ever done such a thing not with ford trucks that exploded on side impact or Audis that accelerate on there own.VW and Gov will come to some agreement making green thumbs happy and this will be done with. It will probably involve a huge power and mpg drop and make you forget about why you brought one in the first place.TDIs are still the best in there class and very reliable automobiles.Been driving Diesel VW since the 80's currently own 3 2009 Jetta TDi's.The drop in book value sucks but you know what that 2012 TDi upgrade is looking real cheap to me.

    1969 GS400 Convertible Auto STG1
    1969 GS400 Convertible 4spd My first car 1983
    1969 GS400 Convertible 4spd
    1970 GSX # 366 Auto STG 1
    1970 GSX # 308 Auto
    1970 GS 455 Convertible 4spd
    1970 GS 455 Convertible Auto
    1971 GS455 Convertible 4Spd
    1971 GS 455 Convertible 4spd STG1
    1971 GS 350 Convertible 4spd
    1972 GS 350 Convertible 4spd
    1972 GS 350 Convertible Auto
    1972 GS 455 Convertible Auto STG1

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    Due to I am working for Audi, here is my inside knowledge about the case over here.

    The fix will be a simple software update for the 2.0TDI, you will not feel any difference in performance or your fuel economy. Thatīs has already been tested and proven right. It has actually shown in some cases that fuel economy has improved. But of course they wont describe it as a positive side factor, because if somebody not should get that effect then they will be sued.

    Kind of funny a country as US would go in dept with emissions, I will advise they donīt test some of the US brands
    Jan

    1970 Buick GS Racecar "Bouncer" 1/8 6.32/110
    1970 Buick GS Street/Strip "The Stocker"

    GSCA#5013
    BPG#2222

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    Quote Originally Posted by BuickGSrules View Post
    Due to I am working for Audi, here is my inside knowledge about the case over here.

    The fix will be a simple software update for the 2.0TDI, you will not feel any difference in performance or your fuel economy. Thatīs has already been tested and proven right. It has actually shown in some cases that fuel economy has improved.
    Jan - I was hoping you'd chime in with some inside knowledge.

    .. but I find it hard to wrap my head around a software "Fix" that will keep current (as advertised ..) performance AND fuel economy AND still meet the EPA emissions requirements ? How is that possible if the "cheat" was designed because the system could not meet emissions in the first place ?

    I seriously hope you are correct. Any info on what is planned for the 2016 MKVII system ?

    Thanks my Wagon Brother
    Alan W

    BPG # 1048 - Charter Member
    NE GS/GN Club - 17 Year Member
    68/69 Buick StepChild Nation - 29 Year Member

    What is a Buick StepChild ?
    Quote Originally Posted by 442w30 View Post
    ... They have awkward proportions from certain angles, and they look dumpy compared to their GM brethren
    ....'68 SportWagon400 "Sportn'Wood"..............'69 GS400 Convert "BigRed"..........

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    Quote Originally Posted by 69GS400s View Post
    Jan - I was hoping you'd chime in with some inside knowledge.

    .. but I find it hard to wrap my head around a software "Fix" that will keep current (as advertised ..) performance AND fuel economy AND still meet the EPA emissions requirements ? How is that possible if the "cheat" was designed because the system could not meet emissions in the first place ?

    I seriously hope you are correct. Any info on what is planned for the 2016 MKVII system ?

    Thanks my Wagon Brother
    I think the cheat was only active during testing.
    Shawn

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    Quote Originally Posted by GNandGS View Post
    I think the cheat was only active during testing.
    Correct .. and it was put in place so the drivetrain system would meet or exceed emissions tests .. which when not in test modes, the EPA claims up to 40 TIMES worse NOx emissions. It would only be logical to assume that in this mode, Fuel mileage AND/OR power would be reduced.

    For there now to be a tune that keeps stock advertised mileage AND power specs and ALSO meet EPA testing seems dubious at the least

    .. but one can hope
    Alan W

    BPG # 1048 - Charter Member
    NE GS/GN Club - 17 Year Member
    68/69 Buick StepChild Nation - 29 Year Member

    What is a Buick StepChild ?
    Quote Originally Posted by 442w30 View Post
    ... They have awkward proportions from certain angles, and they look dumpy compared to their GM brethren
    ....'68 SportWagon400 "Sportn'Wood"..............'69 GS400 Convert "BigRed"..........

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    Quote Originally Posted by 69GS400s View Post
    Correct .. and it was put in place so the drivetrain system would meet or exceed emissions tests .. which when not in test modes, the EPA claims up to 40 TIMES worse NOx emissions. It would only be logical to assume that in this mode, Fuel mileage AND/OR power would be reduced.

    For there now to be a tune that keeps stock advertised mileage AND power specs and ALSO meet EPA testing seems dubious at the least

    .. but one can hope
    If the cheat was put in place to exceed emissions tests do we know for sure without the cheat the emissions are above allowable limits set by the EPA? If the exhaust is 50x cleaner than permissible during the test (when the cheat is active) than being 40x dirtier with the cheat disabled means the vehicle would still pass. I would bet money the exhaust coming out of my 2012 3.0 TDI is cleaner than the exhaust coming out of my wife's 2003 Civic (and much cleaner than what is being spewed out by the Skylark). VW cheated and should be punished but are the cars effected by this scandal really polluting that much?
    64 Skylark Convertible
    462 w/ Stage 2 heads, TA 212 cam, B4B intake
    TKO600
    3.73 12 Bolt w/ TruTrac and Moser axles

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawken View Post
    Here is an online unlocked article: http://www.autonews.com/article/2016...emplate=mobile
    Thanks for that.
    Generally, one has to be a subscriber to view on line WSJ.
    "Bulldog" James A. Miller

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    When all the poop quits flying , buy a Prius if you want fuel economy and reliability .I have been buying them for resale .They warranty the hybrid system for 100k . The falling gas prices have knocked the resale value way down . I think they are ugly but they have a great deal of room for four passengers a large trunk and when put in Pwr. Mode accelerate very well . I can buy a clean off lease 2012 model Prius 3 [w/Navi.] with under 30k miles for under $12k from Toyota Financial . Never thought I would put one in my driveway but my wife puts over 25k miles a year on a car . I just bought one for her . She will start driving it Monday . I am sure she will miss the Buick but the fuel savings will make up for it . Just my 2 cents .



    Chuck
    70 SportWagon , GS Trim 455/400
    66 Skylark Conv.300 2bbl , solid but sportin' patina
    02 Duramax Crew Cab 4x4 Rollback replacement .
    70 Monte Carlo SS 454 , LS5 , 400 Turbo , Loaded , 57k miles .
    07 International Rollback DT 466/ Allison, sold .
    09 Saab 97 Aero , 6.0 LS2 , AWD, {Trailblazer SS in Saab Trim} my new beater .
    07 Toyota FJ Cruiser
    09 LaCrosse , Wife's ride totaled .
    07 Lucerne V8 , Wife's car
    12 Prius Wife's work car 53MPG .
    and some corvettes .

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    Quote Originally Posted by BuickGSrules View Post
    Due to I am working for Audi, here is my inside knowledge about the case over here.

    The fix will be a simple software update for the 2.0TDI, you will not feel any difference in performance or your fuel economy. Thatīs has already been tested and proven right. It has actually shown in some cases that fuel economy has improved. But of course they wont describe it as a positive side factor, because if somebody not should get that effect then they will be sued.

    Kind of funny a country as US would go in dept with emissions, I will advise they donīt test some of the US brands
    Well, that might be the word from VW - that there is a software fix available. However, The EPA and CARB (Calif. Air Resources Board) have both come out publicly and rejected VW's proposed fix saying it didn't work - and that's after the claim to have tested the proposed fix. Your statement about a fix in place and the current news don't square .... unless you're referencing an additional/other proposed fix not tested by EPA or CARB. It will be moot soon because VW has until the end of March to get the fix done.

    As far as questioning the US for emission testing or selective testing, those days are over - believe me. Previously, you could term this testing and re-testing process as 'the honor system'. The EPA will be testing all kinds of vehicles now through out the emissions warranty period for all manufacturers. Previously, the main emphasis was on pre-production testing and manufacturers' certification to the EPA.

    The ghost of Ronald Reagan will be running the EPA .... trust, but verify.
    Last edited by Hawken; 03-12-2016 at 06:45 PM.
    Ken
    --------------------------------------------------
    "Life's tough......It's even tougher if you're stupid."
    -John Wayne

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    This story might not be directly related to Alan's initial post, but I found it interesting nevertheless. The link shows how 3 Canadian researchers designed a new style catalytic convertor which all but eliminates "cold start" emissions. I'm sure this could also be programmed to eliminate any cheating by manufacturers.

    Go to the 1:00 minutes mark if you wish to skip the intro.

    http://www.motoringtv.com/episodes/m...016-episode-4/
    Tom B
    05 Legend Lime Mustang GT convert.
    07 Lincoln Navigator

    No more Buicks....for the time being. Can I still play here?

    There's no such thing as a free lunch. Get used to it.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Anyone else stuck in the VW TDi Quagmire ?

    Quote Originally Posted by corvettzo View Post
    When all the poop quits flying , buy a Prius if you want fuel economy and reliability .I have been buying them for resale .They warranty the hybrid system for 100k . The falling gas prices have knocked the resale value way down . I think they are ugly but they have a great deal of room for four passengers a large trunk and when put in Pwr. Mode accelerate very well . I can buy a clean off lease 2012 model Prius 3 [w/Navi.] with under 30k miles for under $12k from Toyota Financial . Never thought I would put one in my driveway but my wife puts over 25k miles a year on a car . I just bought one for her . She will start driving it Monday . I am sure she will miss the Buick but the fuel savings will make up for it . Just my 2 cents .



    Chuck
    I'm curious about the Toyota hybrids.
    I've a few questions, if you don't mind,

    Are there more than on battery on a Prius? (starting battery for the engine? And running battery for the motor?)

    How long does the motor battery last in a Prius?

    What's the cost of replacing the motor battery?

    What about disposal of the motor battery, is there a disposal fee?

    I've never owned a Toyota.
    Never had a hybrid.
    I had an Isuzu Trooper turbo Diesel. It gat fantastic mileage. Power sucked.
    I had a 2000 Nissan Frontier (gasoline)Power and mileage sucked.
    My '90 F250 7.3L Diesel gets better mileage than my Nissan did.
    "Bulldog" James A. Miller

 

 
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