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  1. #51

    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    Quote Originally Posted by lostGS View Post
    I know that the new SBB aluminum heads are going to optimized for the SP3 intake. But what about us poor slobs that want a engine with street manners. Are the new heads going to work with the Stage 1 intake. Or should I just do some work on the irons for street use with a stage 1.

    Will the new heads work with standard SBB headers? I would hate to have to get a new set.

    Tim
    Tim , I'm sure they will work fine for a street car. It's just like bolting on some great ported heads. It's all going to be the cam and rest of your combo that makes up whether or not you can use them . Headers should be direct bolt on since there wouldn't be anything custom for these

    Nice job Mike from TA
    Andy bridgeview,il
    65 special v6 daily driver-this needs to go faster possibly a 380 stroker.
    82 gn clone 455 12.50's on pump, soon trishield 464
    84 gn
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  2. #52
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    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    But what about us poor slobs that want a engine with street manners.
    You don't lose much for street manners until there's a fairly horrible mismatched combination of parts.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    I am of the opinion that the alum heads and stage 1 dual plane intake will be awesome for the street! Sure the TA stage 1 intake have very little gain on a stock engine but with good flowing alum heads the stage 1 intake will be great with a Q jet. An intake swap alone won't make a donkey run like a horse and an idle to 6000 rpm engine may not have any real street gains going to an SP3.

    I predict the stage 1 intake is a great match for people wanting the low rpm grunt and it won't give up too much high rpm power unless the conbo is wild.

    And yes the standard 350 headers will work perfectly, same with the roller rockers, this was important to them to make sure that we could easily swap our combos to the new heads.... Of course I am happy about this as I have a few turbo kits that will bolt up well.
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  4. #54
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    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    How many heads for first production run? And of that run how many are spoken for? What about valve size? Will stage 1 valves still be about as large as we can go due to bore size? Loving that these heads are closed chamber. Makes the extra effort of getting my motor to 0 deck worth it. SBC guys look out. A block with near ls strength (okay I may be exagerating a bit...) and now the parts to build some big power setups. As the community grows I'm sure our options for pistons, rods and stroker cranks will grow with it.

    Let's show TA that we aren't all talk and give them some support as they truly have come through in a big way for us.

    Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk
    Jacob
    72 Skylark with rebuilt Buick 355. 8.5:1 JE pistons. TA 1.60 roller rockers, roller cam and lifters.
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  5. #55
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    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    Quote Originally Posted by DauntlessSB92 View Post
    How many heads for first production run? And of that run how many are spoken for? What about valve size? Will stage 1 valves still be about as large as we can go due to bore size? Loving that these heads are closed chamber. Makes the extra effort of getting my motor to 0 deck worth it. SBC guys look out. A block with near ls strength (okay I may be exagerating a bit...) and now the parts to build some big power setups. As the community grows I'm sure our options for pistons, rods and stroker cranks will grow with it.

    Let's show TA that we aren't all talk and give them some support as they truly have come through in a big way for us.

    Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk
    Well said, and I agree 110%

  6. #56
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    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    I am pretty sure that the valve sizes will be close to what we are currently using for oversized valves since they kept the buick roller rocker spacing, but I am sure they will let us know soon about those details.

    Not sure how many people have deposits down on the heads, I may buy a second set as you never know how many will be made and it would suck to have to wait for another run later on.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________
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  7. #57
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    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    Edelbrock actually did make a set of Buick 350 heads back about 8 years ago. Edelbrock reps flew to New york to witness dyno testing of the 1021 HP Buick 350 with just 355 cubes, ported iron heads, ported iron intake, and supercharger. Scott ******** built the engine. Edelbrock reps were impressed and made a set of prototype heads and shipped them to scott, Scott and his team looked at them and suggested some changes based on the flow testing and other testing they completed with the prototypes they provided. After the suggested changes were conveyed back to Edelbrock they decided not to bother doing the heads and that project ended.

    TA has always been and always will be a family run company, they even had Mike Jr go off on his own to build his career and that shows they wanted the best for him. I am sure later on Jr will join the company again but the skills and experience he gains around the country will help.

    We need to support TA because they are the only ones supporting us. I thought for years that TA was never going to help us 350 guys but they came through and now I have to eat a bit of humble pie and say sorry..... I complained about the lack of parts TA was producing now that they are doing the intake and heads for us this is really going to come together!

    Now I will buy any parts I can from TA and help fund the promotion of the Buick Torque domination. Be it high compression 455 or boosted 350s lets keep our Buicks all Buick and our LS engines in the daily drivers LOL!
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________
    My book called Small Block Buick Performance covering the V6, 215, 300, 340, and Buick 350 engines will be released soon.

    http://www.v8buick.com/forumdisplay....rformance-Book
    __________________________________________________ ____________________________
    1970 Buick Skylark Turbo 350 street/strip

  8. #58
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    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    Just now waking up to buy parts from TA? I spent 5 grand there 20 years ago and have been spending with them ever since. If these people here would have been buying parts from TA instead of hem hawing about building a 350 engine the heads would have been done a long time ago.

    I know, lets support the TA intake instead of telling people to use the stock intake. just think how many people would have bought the TA intake if everyone here had not said the stock one made a whopping 5 more horse. Putting on the TA intake will at least let you put ANY carb you want to use on it... That 50 lbs off the front end is bigger than you think.

    BTW TA can make a custom cam too.
    Bu Hogs Rock by Guy

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  9. #59
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    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    In defense of the TA dual plane intake, you have to flow more air for it to be of any real benefit, which is one of the main reasons the stock one did so well when compared to it.

    With these heads, I'm pretty confident that TA's dual plane will outshine what a stock intake on stock heads can do, saying nothing about what the single plane on a set of these heads will be capable of.

    ...not to mention all the weight savings. Aluminum intake AND heads will make it lighter than the Buick v6!

    Stock blueprint and history preservation is cool and all, but the idea of an intake, heads, headers, and roller cam are so tempting as to lure even the most staunch die-hards away from their 455s (and whatever else), many of whom only went to the big brothers because of aftermarket support.

    The heads were always the 'weak link' on these engines in terms of air flow potential.

    No more stock cams or low lift profiles with these. It's time for some serious air movement.

    Some of the more extreme effort builders (bless them all), have shown us what this engine is capable of with more air, so it's no mystery as to what lies on the horizon.


    Gary

  10. #60
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    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    Who has stolen "two barrel Gary" and what have you done with him?

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  11. #61
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    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    Ha! Very funny.

    "Two barrel Gary" is interested in seeing what is able to be done with whatever works, nevermind if it's iron, aluminum, or how many holes are in the intake.

    Making people think is the name of the game. Who knows who will be inspired, and hey if I can give a laugh or two at my own expense, so be it.

    Keeps things interesting or at least entertaining.

  12. #62

    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Weise View Post
    Who has stolen "two barrel Gary" and what have you done with him?

    Gary ,your famous .
    Andy bridgeview,il
    65 special v6 daily driver-this needs to go faster possibly a 380 stroker.
    82 gn clone 455 12.50's on pump, soon trishield 464
    84 gn
    72 skylark convert#2 ,N-25

  13. #63
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    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    Well a big 2 barrel does in fact do very well with stock heads and below 5,000 RPM. Just think of it as half a dominator. Cut the fuel/air requirement in half and work with that. Its centralized placement on the intake helps too.

    Makes people think anyway (or think I'm crazy, but I'm cool with that too). Maybe some of those old 2 barrel intakes will see some action. lol

    The low peak lift flow on the iron heads, the high swirl design and tall narrow runners make for a perfect environment for a huge set of centralized throttle blades.

    You should see the power curves when used with the Crower level 3 cam!

    Almost like primitive fuel injection. TBI systems would work similarly, and those are good for low-mid range combinations.

    Everything has its place!

    Having said that, I'm looking forward to these heads...


    Gary

  14. #64
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    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    2 barrels are great when you have 3 of them on 1 intake!
    Steve Caruso
    Maker of reproduction N-25 exhaust hangers, chrome rally wheels, 68-72 Firewall grommet, MBM brake parts dealer.

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  15. #65
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    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    [QUOTE=sean Buick 76;2569947]Edelbrock actually did make a set of Buick 350 heads back about 8 years ago. Edelbrock reps flew to New york to witness dyno testing of the 1021 HP Buick 350 with just 355 cubes, ported iron heads, ported iron intake, and supercharger. Scott ******** built the engine. Edelbrock reps were impressed and made a set of prototype heads and shipped them to scott, Scott and his team looked at them and suggested some changes based on the flow testing and other testing they completed with the prototypes they provided. After the suggested changes were conveyed back to Edelbrock they decided not to bother doing the heads and that project ended.


    you need to complete the story if all is true.
    1. bill mah has the motor. we all know that
    2. who is scott********? never heard of him. the engine ran good so why wouldn't scott******** not want his named associated with it?????
    3. edlebrock was interested in doing heads, but they were for the nailhead. never heard of edelbrock doing 350 heads.
    4. you will find the east coast guys don't keep any secrets for buicks.
    5. you need to make the story truthfull or stop making stuff up

  16. #66
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    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    [QUOTE=gsjohnny1;2570307]
    Quote Originally Posted by sean Buick 76 View Post
    Edelbrock actually did make a set of Buick 350 heads back about 8 years ago. Edelbrock reps flew to New york to witness dyno testing of the 1021 HP Buick 350 with just 355 cubes, ported iron heads, ported iron intake, and supercharger. Scott ******** built the engine. Edelbrock reps were impressed and made a set of prototype heads and shipped them to scott, Scott and his team looked at them and suggested some changes based on the flow testing and other testing they completed with the prototypes they provided. After the suggested changes were conveyed back to Edelbrock they decided not to bother doing the heads and that project ended.


    you need to complete the story if all is true.
    1. bill mah has the motor. we all know that.
    2. who is scott********? never heard of him. the engine ran good so why wouldn't scott******** not want his named associated with it?????
    3. edlebrock was interested in doing heads, but they were for the nailhead. never heard of edelbrock doing 350 heads.
    4. you will find the east coast guys don't keep any secrets for buicks.
    5. you need to make the story truthfull or stop making stuff up
    1. Yes Bill has the engine now with cracked block.
    2. Scott Shafiroff never heard of his racing engines?
    3. Because when the big debacle came out about the custom eagle Buick 350 crank that was made Dcott and Eagle had a falling out leading to the time when all the threads were deleted about the bill mah engine. Scott and eagle later made good and I was able to get permission from bill to re post the thread as I had saved it before it was deleted.
    4. I am from the west coast and I'm 100% honest

    5. I am not making anything up, bill mah and Scott verify this information. The worst part is that the reason that Eagle and Scott got into it is because one of the eagle guys did a custom crank an exact copy of the stock 350 crank but it never was officially designed and logged in the system. The under the table custom crank is the issue. Them when I find out that Eagle made a crankshaft for a 350 I called them and tried to order it. They told me that no Buick 350 crank has ever been made by eagle so I left them my number and told them to call me back. They called back and said that there was no records at all of this crank being made...

    Here is where the issue came up:

    I posted on this forum about how this all happened and then a few weeks later a Buick 350 fanatic called Eagle and really tore into them with telling them a bunch of trash and yelling at the reps on the phone.

    Soon Scott and Eagle were in a bad standing... The fact that eagle was a huge supplier to him effected his business until they mended the relationship. This is why Scott does not want anything to do with the Buick.

    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...highlight=1021
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________
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    __________________________________________________ ____________________________
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  17. #67
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    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Farmer View Post
    Well a big 2 barrel does in fact do very well with stock heads and below 5,000 RPM. Just think of it as half a dominator. Cut the fuel/air requirement in half and work with that. Its centralized placement on the intake helps too.

    Makes people think anyway (or think I'm crazy, but I'm cool with that too). Maybe some of those old 2 barrel intakes will see some action. lol

    The low peak lift flow on the iron heads, the high swirl design and tall narrow runners make for a perfect environment for a huge set of centralized throttle blades.

    You should see the power curves when used with the Crower level 3 cam!

    Almost like primitive fuel injection. TBI systems would work similarly, and those are good for low-mid range combinations.

    Everything has its place!

    Having said that, I'm looking forward to these heads...


    Gary
    I know that I have been quietly watching this thread, wondering if these aluminum heads would be good for my target build of low/midrange power for driving a heavy Jeep Wagoneer with maybe a trailer behind it. Sure, the reduced weight of aluminum heads and TA dual plane manifold is never a bad thing. But I'm excited to see how these heads flow and how much they would improve overall performance. And while my focus is on midrange power, there's nothing wrong with seeing the torque curve stay up well into higher RPMs. I may not use it all the time but I wouldn't be disappointed.
    Roy

    1969 Jeep Wagoneer: Buick 350/TH400/D20/D27/D44 for now.
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  18. #68
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    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    You won't be able to determine too much without knowing the MinCSA and some velocity #'s...or at least some dyno data with enough info to apply to your own project..
    Even then, a higher peak torque as a result of a CSA increase has little to do with being able to predict low speed performance, or part throttle performance.
    Going out on a limb here, I'm going to suggest that it should increase low speed response.
    CFM gains from mindful design or porting are mostly from velocity increases as result of evening out the dead areas and "fixing" the problem spots that cause trouble closer to the valve seat.
    It wakes them right up.

    The impressiveness of an LS engine has more to do with the much better starting point of the heads, along with good combustion chambers and long runners helping tune the low speed operation more so than computer controls.

    I would highly doubt the port dimensions would start out too huge to consider for mild build.
    It would be difficult to mess these up.

  19. #69
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    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Farmer View Post
    In defense of the TA dual plane intake, you have to flow more air for it to be of any real benefit, which is one of the main reasons the stock one did so well when compared to it.

    With these heads, I'm pretty confident that TA's dual plane will outshine what a stock intake on stock heads can do, saying nothing about what the single plane on a set of these heads will be capable of.

    ...not to mention all the weight savings. Aluminum intake AND heads will make it lighter than the Buick v6!

    Stock blueprint and history preservation is cool and all, but the idea of an intake, heads, headers, and roller cam are so tempting as to lure even the most staunch die-hards away from their 455s (and whatever else), many of whom only went to the big brothers because of aftermarket support.

    The heads were always the 'weak link' on these engines in terms of air flow potential.

    No more stock cams or low lift profiles with these. It's time for some serious air movement.

    Some of the more extreme effort builders (bless them all), have shown us what this engine is capable of with more air, so it's no mystery as to what lies on the horizon.


    Gary
    Folks,
    I have read about these test on and off for some time in regards to this TA 350 manifold vs stock test. This intake was tested to death when we first released it. When it was in design I went as far as have flow boxes made from the cores before the hard tooling was made. This was to compare results to which ever stock intake we had at the time. They were made out of plaster, still have them. Ed Mosler designed the intake in 1982-83, still have all the pencil drawings which are pretty cool. Jim Bell was on board to help with testing. On the wagon it was worth 3 tenths. Car went from 12.60's to 12.30's. From what I know today some of this could be from my driving habits back then. But I do not remember any results of no improvement like I've seen here in the past years. The 350 intake is sold to all level of builds and the feed back we receive has been positive. Every test, every engine will provide some different information.
    I do agree that if a intake can provide enough air to satisfy the engine a aftermarket intake may show no improvement. The other thing I remember is when Ed Mosler did his flow testing of the intake he said it picked up the air flow of the head. Which he indicated then that it was because of a problem with the head. At the time he also indicated that would be a plus, but not making it right. I cannot tell you which head it was tested on, what the valve job looked like and so on. Jim Bell also had positive results when tested on Forrest Thornburg's 350 Skyhawk. The intake was tested by GSCA members back then as well. I do not want to get into a debate over this, just wanted to share some history. If we didn't see positive results, and those of you who know me, you know I would have gone back and fixed it.

    On another note, I once talked with Jim Poston way back when about the S-Divider intake, about its lack of performance, which he acknowledged. In the end Jim said to me, "Why should I spend the money to fix it, when I will sell 100 intakes a year either way".

    Well, that's not me folks, I would have fixed it.

    One more thing. The 350 heads have been designed around 1.940" & 1.550" valves. If I remember correctly a 2.050" intake can be installed. We never tested with that size intake valve. We also increased the the spring installed height by using longer valves. The stock 350 is 5.0" long I believe. Were going to use 5.15" which is the length of the 455. So the 2.0" performance intake valves we stock can be used. The exhaust can go to 1.600" but at this time we feel it will not be necessary. I have a bunch of 1.625" 455 exhaust that I may have machined into 1.550" or 1.600". I'm excited to see what everyone will do with these heads over time.
    Last edited by TA Perf; 04-20-2016 at 06:46 PM.
    Mike Tomaszewski
    TA Performance Products Inc.
    www.taperformance.com
    480-922-6807

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    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    If they space the valves out a bit more so we can run the standard 2.02", and 1.60" valves with 11/32" stems, I think it would help a bit to increase the overall flow on both intake and exhaust on higher horsepower applications.
    I'm totally stoked to get these and run the higher ratio roller rockers on our engine build.

  21. #71
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    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    ^^ Oops, tiny bore engine, remember?
    You would have to massively relocate the valves and tilt the axes for that to reach it's true potential.
    The valve itself isn't the final restriction.
    It's the port's architecture and bent path on it's way to the valve, and what obstructions lie in wait after the valve.
    A 1.940 valve covering a 90% throat area below the valve seat with an 80% efficiency (141 cfm/in(2) or so used as the 100%...) has potential to 286 cfm.
    That's enough for over 600 hp.

    The larger valve helps power by allowing more 'curtain area' at low to mid lifts, meaning there's a larger area opening at any given point (until the valve is open far enough to exceed the curtain area).
    This contributes to a greater cylinder fill, much the same as a roller cam's faster profile, by increasing the port's average capacity plotted over the entire lift curve.

  22. #72
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    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    Quote Originally Posted by 8ad-f85 View Post
    ^^ Oops, tiny bore engine, remember?
    You would have to massively relocate the valves and tilt the axes for that to reach it's true potential.
    The valve itself isn't the final restriction.
    It's the port's architecture and bent path on it's way to the valve, and what obstructions lie in wait after the valve.
    A 1.940 valve covering a 90% throat area below the valve seat with an 80% efficiency (141 cfm/in(2) or so used as the 100%...) has potential to 286 cfm.
    That's enough for over 600 hp.

    The larger valve helps power by allowing more 'curtain area' at low to mid lifts, meaning there's a larger area opening at any given point (until the valve is open far enough to exceed the curtain area).
    This contributes to a greater cylinder fill, much the same as a roller cam's faster profile, by increasing the port's average capacity plotted over the entire lift curve.
    You reminded me.
    We changed the valve angle to 13' and moved the valves to the center line of the bore to allow the use of larger valves. We also re positioned them side to side to get them to fit the best.
    Mike Tomaszewski
    TA Performance Products Inc.
    www.taperformance.com
    480-922-6807

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    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    Awesome!

  24. #74
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    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    Thanks for the update Mike.
    My last post was supposed to be before yours....

    I can't wait to get these installed with a roller cam, rockers, etc.

  25. #75
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    Default Re: ***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Perf View Post
    You reminded me.
    We changed the valve angle to 13' and moved the valves to the center line of the bore to allow the use of larger valves. We also re positioned them side to side to get them to fit the best.
    Okay we can re work the valve reliefs as needed based on the changes, I am guessing that the Ta roller rockers won't fit due to the changes or will they? And provision for SBC rockers?
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________
    My book called Small Block Buick Performance covering the V6, 215, 300, 340, and Buick 350 engines will be released soon.

    http://www.v8buick.com/forumdisplay....rformance-Book
    __________________________________________________ ____________________________
    1970 Buick Skylark Turbo 350 street/strip

 

 
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