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  1. #1
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    Default Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    Can you run a mech.fuel pump on a tomahawk block?
    George



    "If ur going to beat a Hemi you better have a Buick"

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    Quote Originally Posted by staged67gspwr View Post
    Can you run a mech.fuel pump on a tomahawk block?
    George, the fuel pump bolts to the timing chain cover, so it really has nothing to do with the block. As long as the cam has a fuel pump eccentric, you can run a mechanical pump. I'm very happy with the CV pump I got from Jim Weise.
    Larry
    1998 "Fully Optioned" SC3800 Riviera
    70 GS 455 Stage1, TSP 470, 602 HP@ 5900, 589 TQ @ 4900
    TA Hyd Roller Cam, 230*/238*, 112, .544"/.577" lift, 4-7 swap
    MSD Digital 6+, Ignitionman Distributor w/MSD trigger
    THM400 with Ultimate 258mm converter, Gear Vendors OD
    AED 1000 HO Carb, 800 CFM 7042240 Quadrajet
    8.5 10 bolt, 3.73's Race weight 4025lbs.
    Best E.T. 11.54 Best MPH, 116.06
    Larrymta@verizon.net, GSCA #291
    BPG # 1063
    N.E. GS/GN Club Assistant Director

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    Larry i heard thru some people that a mech pump wont fit or doesnt clear the cam because the block is very thick i just wanna verify this,i use same CV from weise
    George



    "If ur going to beat a Hemi you better have a Buick"

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    Quote Originally Posted by staged67gspwr View Post
    Larry i heard thru some people that a mech pump wont fit or doesnt clear the cam because the block is very thick i just wanna verify this,i use same CV from weise
    George, the fuel pump bolts to the timing chain cover (which fits the tomahawk block) The only thing I could see affecting the fuel pump would be a cam with bigger journals, but even then, the eccentric size is the determining factor on how the pump works. I know my roller cam has a bigger eccentric, but in my case, it worked great with the CV pump, Jim said it stroked the pump 100%. So again, the timing chain cover bolts to the block, the fuel pump is external to the block.
    Larry
    1998 "Fully Optioned" SC3800 Riviera
    70 GS 455 Stage1, TSP 470, 602 HP@ 5900, 589 TQ @ 4900
    TA Hyd Roller Cam, 230*/238*, 112, .544"/.577" lift, 4-7 swap
    MSD Digital 6+, Ignitionman Distributor w/MSD trigger
    THM400 with Ultimate 258mm converter, Gear Vendors OD
    AED 1000 HO Carb, 800 CFM 7042240 Quadrajet
    8.5 10 bolt, 3.73's Race weight 4025lbs.
    Best E.T. 11.54 Best MPH, 116.06
    Larrymta@verizon.net, GSCA #291
    BPG # 1063
    N.E. GS/GN Club Assistant Director

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    Quote Originally Posted by LARRY70GS View Post
    George, the fuel pump bolts to the timing chain cover (which fits the tomahawk block) The only thing I could see affecting the fuel pump would be a cam with bigger journals, but even then, the eccentric size is the determining factor on how the pump works. I know my roller cam has a bigger eccentric, but in my case, it worked great with the CV pump, Jim said it stroked the pump 100%. So again, the timing chain cover bolts to the block, the fuel pump is external to the block.
    Larry im just going by what i heard i dont know thats why im asking,i was under the same assumption as you
    George



    "If ur going to beat a Hemi you better have a Buick"

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    Quote Originally Posted by staged67gspwr View Post
    Larry im just going by what i heard i dont know thats why im asking,i was under the same assumption as you
    George, I just looked at the TA catalog. There are 3 versions of the TA block, 2 of them have a raised cam position. I could see that affecting what you are asking. The standard stock cam position block should be fine, so it depends on what version of the block you plan on using.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Larry
    1998 "Fully Optioned" SC3800 Riviera
    70 GS 455 Stage1, TSP 470, 602 HP@ 5900, 589 TQ @ 4900
    TA Hyd Roller Cam, 230*/238*, 112, .544"/.577" lift, 4-7 swap
    MSD Digital 6+, Ignitionman Distributor w/MSD trigger
    THM400 with Ultimate 258mm converter, Gear Vendors OD
    AED 1000 HO Carb, 800 CFM 7042240 Quadrajet
    8.5 10 bolt, 3.73's Race weight 4025lbs.
    Best E.T. 11.54 Best MPH, 116.06
    Larrymta@verizon.net, GSCA #291
    BPG # 1063
    N.E. GS/GN Club Assistant Director

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    Quote Originally Posted by LARRY70GS View Post
    George, I just looked at the TA catalog. There are 3 versions of the TA block, 2 of them have a raised cam position. I could see that affecting what you are asking. The standard stock cam position block should be fine, so it depends on what version of the block you plan on using.
    yea maybe its for the 54mm cam tunnel you are right,im gonna ask TA to be sure thanks Larry!
    George



    "If ur going to beat a Hemi you better have a Buick"

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    The Ford size cam core from TA does not have a fuel pump eccentric, so you would have to have a Tomahawk block with the Buick cam size.

    He has made a few of these blocks, but I don't know how many.. Call TA and ask.

    JW
    Owner/operator

    Tri-Shield Performance
    Jim Weise
    Founder/Owner
    V-8 Buick.com
    320-629-8999

    Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
    Abraham Lincoln
    16th president of US (1809 - 1865)

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    Quote Originally Posted by staged67gspwr View Post
    yea maybe its for the 54mm cam tunnel you are right,im gonna ask TA to be sure thanks Larry!
    Good, post what you learn, I'm curious about that as well.
    Larry
    1998 "Fully Optioned" SC3800 Riviera
    70 GS 455 Stage1, TSP 470, 602 HP@ 5900, 589 TQ @ 4900
    TA Hyd Roller Cam, 230*/238*, 112, .544"/.577" lift, 4-7 swap
    MSD Digital 6+, Ignitionman Distributor w/MSD trigger
    THM400 with Ultimate 258mm converter, Gear Vendors OD
    AED 1000 HO Carb, 800 CFM 7042240 Quadrajet
    8.5 10 bolt, 3.73's Race weight 4025lbs.
    Best E.T. 11.54 Best MPH, 116.06
    Larrymta@verizon.net, GSCA #291
    BPG # 1063
    N.E. GS/GN Club Assistant Director

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Weise View Post
    The Ford size cam core from TA does not have a fuel pump eccentric, so you would have to have a Tomahawk block with the Buick cam size.

    He has made a few of these blocks, but I don't know how many.. Call TA and ask.

    JW
    Thanks Jim!
    George



    "If ur going to beat a Hemi you better have a Buick"

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    Quote Originally Posted by LARRY70GS View Post
    Good, post what you learn, I'm curious about that as well.

    Yup amen to that Larry
    George



    "If ur going to beat a Hemi you better have a Buick"

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    Owner/operator

    Tri-Shield Performance
    Jim Weise
    Founder/Owner
    V-8 Buick.com
    320-629-8999

    Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
    Abraham Lincoln
    16th president of US (1809 - 1865)

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Weise View Post
    Jim you have any cranks you'd consider selling for future projects that are on hold or anything like that?
    George



    "If ur going to beat a Hemi you better have a Buick"

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    Thanks Jim.

    Larry
    1998 "Fully Optioned" SC3800 Riviera
    70 GS 455 Stage1, TSP 470, 602 HP@ 5900, 589 TQ @ 4900
    TA Hyd Roller Cam, 230*/238*, 112, .544"/.577" lift, 4-7 swap
    MSD Digital 6+, Ignitionman Distributor w/MSD trigger
    THM400 with Ultimate 258mm converter, Gear Vendors OD
    AED 1000 HO Carb, 800 CFM 7042240 Quadrajet
    8.5 10 bolt, 3.73's Race weight 4025lbs.
    Best E.T. 11.54 Best MPH, 116.06
    Larrymta@verizon.net, GSCA #291
    BPG # 1063
    N.E. GS/GN Club Assistant Director

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    Quote Originally Posted by staged67gspwr View Post
    Jim you have any cranks you'd consider selling for future projects that are on hold or anything like that?
    Sorry George, just the opposite..

    Sitting here twiddling my thumbs on a couple builds, waiting for cranks..

    JW
    Owner/operator

    Tri-Shield Performance
    Jim Weise
    Founder/Owner
    V-8 Buick.com
    320-629-8999

    Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
    Abraham Lincoln
    16th president of US (1809 - 1865)

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Weise View Post
    Sorry George, just the opposite..

    Sitting here twiddling my thumbs on a couple builds, waiting for cranks..

    JW
    This whole crank waiting thing sucks man why cant they stock some stuff,thanks jim
    George



    "If ur going to beat a Hemi you better have a Buick"

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    Jim,your CV Mechanical pump good enough for a big cube 555 or 560 engine?
    George



    "If ur going to beat a Hemi you better have a Buick"

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    Quote Originally Posted by staged67gspwr View Post
    Jim,your CV Mechanical pump good enough for a big cube 555 or 560 engine?
    George, this is what Jim had to say about the CV pump,

    "The pump I use these days is made for a SBC, by CV products. These pumps use o-ring fittings, rather than pipe fittings, or inverted flare fittings, so volume is not compromised at the fitting, which is the typical bottleneck in mechanical pumps.

    I have had great success with this pump, in 600 HP street cars, with a -8 input line, feeding from a fuel cell, or modified (enlarged) pickup in a stock tank. A -6 ouput line to the carb is plenty big. I have 3800lbs cars in the mid 10's with this combo.

    I have also had sucess in 500 HP combos, with this pump, using the stock lines and pickup. I have run 4100lb cars in the 11's with this setup.

    ON the dyno, at 6300 rpm, at 600 HP no more than 1 psi loss from base pressure was observed on numerous occassions. Granted, I don't have 14 feet of bent up fuel line on the dyno, but the saftey margin is certainly there.

    On the roller cam motors, this pump fits perfectly, and strokes the pump nearly 100%, with just a change to the Buick arm. Stock flat tappet cams, with the smaller lobe, require a fair amount of porting to the housing, to allow adaquate pump stroke."

    According to the specs, it is good for 850 HP.

    https://www.karlperformance.com/p/SP...PH/173831/1009

    I think Jim might advise using -10AN from the tank to pump, and -8AN from pump to carburetor if you were up around 800 HP. I have -8AN and -6AN. I have never had the car lay down on me at the track. You probably have the same set up I do.
    Larry
    1998 "Fully Optioned" SC3800 Riviera
    70 GS 455 Stage1, TSP 470, 602 HP@ 5900, 589 TQ @ 4900
    TA Hyd Roller Cam, 230*/238*, 112, .544"/.577" lift, 4-7 swap
    MSD Digital 6+, Ignitionman Distributor w/MSD trigger
    THM400 with Ultimate 258mm converter, Gear Vendors OD
    AED 1000 HO Carb, 800 CFM 7042240 Quadrajet
    8.5 10 bolt, 3.73's Race weight 4025lbs.
    Best E.T. 11.54 Best MPH, 116.06
    Larrymta@verizon.net, GSCA #291
    BPG # 1063
    N.E. GS/GN Club Assistant Director

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    Awesome Larry thank you buddy!!
    George



    "If ur going to beat a Hemi you better have a Buick"

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    Ya, thanks Larry, I only really get to check the board once a day here.. I appreciate your stepping up and filling in the details.

    BTW.. the CV pump is good to 800 HP on methanol which is twice the volume of gasoline.. of course this is with big input and output lines.

    Larry's -8 feed and -6 carb line is good for well into the 800 HP range.. the line way outflows the needle and seat assemby (s).

    JW
    Owner/operator

    Tri-Shield Performance
    Jim Weise
    Founder/Owner
    V-8 Buick.com
    320-629-8999

    Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
    Abraham Lincoln
    16th president of US (1809 - 1865)

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Weise View Post
    Ya, thanks Larry, I only really get to check the board once a day here.. I appreciate your stepping up and filling in the details.

    BTW.. the CV pump is good to 800 HP on methanol which is twice the volume of gasoline.. of course this is with big input and output lines.

    Larry's -8 feed and -6 carb line is good for well into the 800 HP range.. the line way outflows the needle and seat assemby (s).

    JW
    Cool thanks Jim im gonna call you to order one

    Thanks
    George



    "If ur going to beat a Hemi you better have a Buick"

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Weise View Post
    Ya, thanks Larry, I only really get to check the board once a day here.. I appreciate your stepping up and filling in the details.

    BTW.. the CV pump is good to 800 HP on methanol which is twice the volume of gasoline.. of course this is with big input and output lines.

    Larry's -8 feed and -6 carb line is good for well into the 800 HP range.. the line way outflows the needle and seat assemby (s).

    JW
    My pleasure Jim. I omitted one line where you said the pump was good for 90 gallons per minute, that's 5400 gallons per hour I know in the link I provided, it clearly says "Max GPM-90". Kind of hard to believe. I would think free flow with big lines but is that really accurate?

    https://www.karlperformance.com/p/SP...PH/173831/1009


    Quote Originally Posted by staged67gspwr View Post
    Cool thanks Jim im gonna call you to order one

    Thanks
    I thought you had one already George.
    Larry
    1998 "Fully Optioned" SC3800 Riviera
    70 GS 455 Stage1, TSP 470, 602 HP@ 5900, 589 TQ @ 4900
    TA Hyd Roller Cam, 230*/238*, 112, .544"/.577" lift, 4-7 swap
    MSD Digital 6+, Ignitionman Distributor w/MSD trigger
    THM400 with Ultimate 258mm converter, Gear Vendors OD
    AED 1000 HO Carb, 800 CFM 7042240 Quadrajet
    8.5 10 bolt, 3.73's Race weight 4025lbs.
    Best E.T. 11.54 Best MPH, 116.06
    Larrymta@verizon.net, GSCA #291
    BPG # 1063
    N.E. GS/GN Club Assistant Director

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    Quote Originally Posted by LARRY70GS View Post
    My pleasure Jim. I omitted one line where you said the pump was good for 90 gallons per minute, that's 5400 gallons per hour I know in the link I provided, it clearly says "Max GPM-90". Kind of hard to believe. I would think free flow with big lines but is that really accurate?

    https://www.karlperformance.com/p/SP...PH/173831/1009




    I thought you had one already George.

    for new engine
    George



    "If ur going to beat a Hemi you better have a Buick"

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    I don't think these Tomahawk blocks will except mechanical fuel pumps with out modifying the front face. I could be wrong but Dave Johnson (who I bought my block from) said he had to do some grinding to get it to fit.
    Jim has my block now at his shop...Maybe you could look at it and see what was done?

    I do know 100% there was grinding done to get exhaust manifolds to fit...
    70 GSX clone race car 10.58@126
    70 stage 2 (real) KenneBell test car that Pop raced.
    70 Skylark 12,400 miles rust free
    70 stage 1 will be restored

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Mechanical fuel pump on tomahawk block

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Parquette View Post
    I don't think these Tomahawk blocks will except mechanical fuel pumps with out modifying the front face. I could be wrong but Dave Johnson (who I bought my block from) said he had to do some grinding to get it to fit.
    Jim has my block now at his shop...Maybe you could look at it and see what was done?

    I do know 100% there was grinding done to get exhaust manifolds to fit...
    if you get the block with standard buick cam you can use the fuel pump i believe.
    George



    "If ur going to beat a Hemi you better have a Buick"

 

 
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