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  1. #1
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    Default Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    I'm curious and intrigued by Pochargers.
    I have next to no knowledge of prochargers but building a street able 10 sec motor that I can drive on pump gas is amazing and
    I understand money and a lot off it is a requirement, that aside what does one have to do?
    Block Filled 1/2?
    Girdle?
    Special crank needed?
    Compression 8-9-1?
    What rods are recommended?
    I work on glacial time scale. I would take me a few years to scrape the cash together, but hey what the hell.
    I read all threads with the "procharger" and found this one: : Can a BBB survive a procharger? What will it take? http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...ght=procharger
    Dave Reber
    Wadsworth Ohio

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    First off, a solid NA setup can go 10's and be street driven daily if one wishes. But for the wow factor and ease of making power Procharger is a good way to go. Here is my take on what you need to get it done and or the way I would go about it.

    1.72-76 block with Halo girdle and the new Molnar rods.
    2. Wiesco,Diamond,JE piston IE a good piston
    2a. Stock crank
    3.Compression 9.5 to 10.1 for 650/700hp you could even set it lower if you like 8.8 to 1 maybe
    4.Heads, do what budget will allow I would definitely do aluminum even if they are box stock
    5.cam either custom ground or something with a 112-115lsa and a decent amount of duration.
    6.Carb if you choose to use one have it prepped or buy straight from Horsepower innovations, CSU or C&S
    7.Carb Hat Extreme Velocity, Procharger Pro or CSU
    8.Fuel pump A1000 and 13202 reg with -10 feed and -8 or even -10 return
    9.Intercooler or Meth injection would be good insurance if on 93 pump gas, I would do an AIS or Razor meth setup myself. As it's easier, cleaner looking and obviously won't block airflow to the radiator
    10. Ignition just needs to be some sort of hot box with a locked distributor at around 28 or a boost sensing box is good too.
    11.BOV Jodar,Tial or Turbosmart is fine no need for the $450 Big red unless you just want it.
    12.the kit from "the supercharger store" or have Rob at Precision Billet make you a bracket and you source the head unit and pulleys.
    13. For the headunit and your goals ID go with a D1 they are easy to find used or even reman-ed.
    14. Good converter I went with UCC on my build
    15. All the obvious stuff fuel lines,gauges, headers etc et

    Make sure the fuel system is up to the challenge. A 425hp base engine will be needed to run 10's with a low boost level which makes life easier, one could get a pretty much stock engine in the 10's but would need a good bit of boost.
    70 stage 1 Back under construction
    540 Tomahawk, F1c-94 Procharger
    Holley HP EFI, Stage 2 TE's
    Shooting for 1khp at the tire and 5.50s

    .

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    My head is spinning!!!!!
    You can PM me the answer but assuming looking at your list you have 1-5 or 6 (I have a quick fuel carb.) what is the cost? I assumed $8,000.
    Dave Reber
    Wadsworth Ohio

  4. #4
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    Louisville,Kentucky 40229
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    Default Re: Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    The first thing to answer is how much boost are you wanting to run ?

    Expect to spend at least $6000.00 on it to get it up and running. More getting it fine tuned.

    Stock head gaskets go with no more than 8.8 to one compression and 5 PSI boost

    If going over 8.8 to one then use Comedic gaskets.

    Street driven car ? 1/2 fill is not recommended, but if you do that an oil cooler and an oil temperature gauge will be needed.

    If going over 7 PSI and/or 6000 RPMs then mods will need to be done to the block for it to live.

    Let me know if you need help with it. I don't have any parts on hand anymore as I gave everything to Bobb when I sold him the car.
    Michael Evans

    "Universal means the part universally does not fit anything until you make it"


    Next Buick project...........1987 T-Type

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    I'm going to start to look for parts at a snails pace. Things like rods and pistons. But some day get more serious.
    Dave Reber
    Wadsworth Ohio

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    Quote Originally Posted by dr View Post
    I'm going to start to look for parts at a snails pace. Things like rods and pistons. But some day get more serious.
    Pistons are last!
    The cylinder head chamber volume differs depending on which head is chosen for the project and that volume needs to be known in order to figure out how much volume is needed in the piston dish to get the correct compression ratio.

    Purchasing the rods now is OK

    The first thing is to find a block since they are getting harder to find as time goes on.
    If you happen to come across a 430 block for around $100, grab it.
    The 430 block can be bored to 4.250" and still have thicker cylinder walls that the 455 block providing the is very little core shift.

    Here are the links to the Vortec Supercharger BBB Jim Weise put together.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...percharged-BBB
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...d-motor-update
    Last edited by pmuller9; 12-17-2016 at 09:03 PM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    Quote Originally Posted by pmuller9 View Post
    Pistons are last!
    The cylinder head chamber volume differs depending on which head is chosen for the project and that volume needs to be known in order to figure out how much volume is needed in the piston dish to get the correct compression ratio.

    Purchasing the rods now is OK

    The first thing is to find a block since they are getting harder to find as time goes on.
    If you happen to come across a 430 block for around $100, grab it.
    The 430 block can be bored to 4.250" and still have thicker cylinder walls that the 455 block providing the is very little core shift.
    Paul!! Its good to see you back posting again, I was getting worried that something happened to you and I was thinking of sending you a PM to make sure you're OK. Welcome back!








    Derek
    64 Skylark,401 Nailhead,ST400,3.23:1Posi
    64 Skylark,305Vortec sbc,700R4,12blt Posi 3.73,low 14s. A sbb 300 stroker planned for it.
    72 Skylark Convert. in progress, Not yet assembled 455 .020 over,70 heads with stage1 valves,gasket matched and bowl blended,transmission to be determined.
    65 Chevy Impala,4,400lbs,383sbc,700R4,3.07posi,1.80 60' foot time low 13s @101mph,15mpg city,24mpg highway

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    Quote Originally Posted by 300sbb_overkill View Post
    Paul!! Its good to see you back posting again, I was getting worried that something happened to you and I was thinking of sending you a PM to make sure you're OK. Welcome back!

    Derek
    Thanks Derek
    I've just been watching and didn't have anything that I wanted to add.
    Paul

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    I saw on another related thread someone posted the 430 option (may have been you) Good idea. Agree pistons last.
    Dave Reber
    Wadsworth Ohio

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    I also like the 430 block idea and use a fill girdle you will need it.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________
    My book called Small Block Buick Performance covering the V6, 215, 300, 340, and Buick 350 engines will be released soon.

    http://www.v8buick.com/forumdisplay....rformance-Book
    __________________________________________________ ____________________________
    1970 Buick Skylark Turbo 350 street/strip

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    Sean do you mean partial fill the block plus a girdle?
    Dave Reber
    Wadsworth Ohio

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    Quote Originally Posted by dr View Post
    Sean do you mean partial fill the block plus a girdle?
    Looks like he hit the "I" instead of the "U", I believe he meant to write "full" girdle, which would be a good idea to use for a boosted app.





    Derek
    64 Skylark,401 Nailhead,ST400,3.23:1Posi
    64 Skylark,305Vortec sbc,700R4,12blt Posi 3.73,low 14s. A sbb 300 stroker planned for it.
    72 Skylark Convert. in progress, Not yet assembled 455 .020 over,70 heads with stage1 valves,gasket matched and bowl blended,transmission to be determined.
    65 Chevy Impala,4,400lbs,383sbc,700R4,3.07posi,1.80 60' foot time low 13s @101mph,15mpg city,24mpg highway

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    Girdle not needed for anything under 700hp and 6500rpm, especially with boost it loads the block much different.

    A halo is easy enough to do and certainly would be great insurance as would main studs and a half fill. Coupled with nice rods and I wouldn't loose a moment's sleep with 700hp
    70 stage 1 Back under construction
    540 Tomahawk, F1c-94 Procharger
    Holley HP EFI, Stage 2 TE's
    Shooting for 1khp at the tire and 5.50s

    .

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    I do not know what a halo is.
    My understanding is 1/2 filled is fine on street when coupled with Aluminum heads.
    Dave Reber
    Wadsworth Ohio

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    Halo goes on top of the main caps only it ties all of them together, whereas a full girdle does that and the panrails , but requires cutting a good bit of the caps away
    70 stage 1 Back under construction
    540 Tomahawk, F1c-94 Procharger
    Holley HP EFI, Stage 2 TE's
    Shooting for 1khp at the tire and 5.50s

    .

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    Thinking about this procharger stuff again: How much boost do you run before things get weird? Assume sub 700HP and RPM's around 6,000.
    Dave Reber
    Wadsworth Ohio

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    The boost # isn't what gets you it's the HP and rpm, what are the engine particulars now ? Or is there an engine in the equation yet?
    70 stage 1 Back under construction
    540 Tomahawk, F1c-94 Procharger
    Holley HP EFI, Stage 2 TE's
    Shooting for 1khp at the tire and 5.50s

    .

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    No engine yet or sort of kind of.
    I plan to run my current combo this summer. Street/Stripe car should be in the 11's. The local track (30 miles one way) is opening again after being down for years. I plan to over the winter 2017-18 to get a procharger and use my existing block. Provided I make enough money on side jobs. (welding)
    I get these crazy thoughts, I'm a restless soul.
    Dave Reber
    Wadsworth Ohio

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    Nothing wrong with that that's what keeps our hobby alive, if you build off the engine that will be in service, just make sure you know the true compression so you can know where your at whe n the blower finds its way on there, that will dictate alot of parameters
    70 stage 1 Back under construction
    540 Tomahawk, F1c-94 Procharger
    Holley HP EFI, Stage 2 TE's
    Shooting for 1khp at the tire and 5.50s

    .

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    What is your current combo?
    What would be your power goal with a procharger?

    Paul

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    Paul
    Current combo between 9.5 and 10:1 ratio
    Milled eddy aluminum heads
    290 cam
    Headers
    950 quick fuel carb.
    Dave small body HEI ignition

    12 bolt rear end 3:42 gears
    Trishield street strip converter
    I will obviously will get this all dialed in before I purchase Procharger.

    Goal 10.5 ET pump gas friendly Skylark. sub 700hp
    Dave Reber
    Wadsworth Ohio

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    Quote Originally Posted by dr View Post
    Paul
    Current combo between 9.5 and 10:1 ratio
    Milled eddy aluminum heads
    290 cam
    Headers
    950 quick fuel carb.
    Dave small body HEI ignition

    12 bolt rear end 3:42 gears
    Trishield street strip converter
    I will obviously will get this all dialed in before I purchase Procharger.

    Goal 10.5 ET pump gas friendly Skylark. sub 700hp
    The fact that the crankshaft on a supercharged engine has to handle the power it takes to drive the supercharger added to the power output at the flywheel is sometimes overlooked.
    So lets say the engine puts out 650 HP at 7 lbs of boost.
    The supercharger can be using upwards of 70 HP at that level to drive it so the crank sees about 720 hp.

    The block will need a full girdle to survive the actual HP and torque.
    The compression ratio should be less than 9:1 depending on actual boost requirements.

    You may have already viewed this thread but it will give you good info.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...d-motor-update

    Paul

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    I believe John JR has proven without a doubt that the full girdle is NOT a must for one to live, yes he runs aluminum rods and a simple Halo which is very effective and much easier to install, but he has put his car thru more punishment than most, and it has survived. My stock rod no girdle Shortblock was on 6lbs at 11.25 to 1 compression and didn't complain. Unless you are out there every week thrashing on it and spinning big rpm a girdle is just "extra" IMO anyway. I see no reason for less than 9.1 comp either. Maybe mine was a grenade pulled I was 3900lb 11.25 to 1 comp , 28 hot air setup on corn. I'm going to 93 pump this time around and will set compression around 9.75 which still leaves a large tuning window. If I was after some stupid number I would set it back on 11to1 or even more. But no need for that this time around.

    And I've heard all the arguments that the ones who don't run girdles are just lucky etc etc, but there so many fast BBB's out there that aren't girdled tho. How often are you going to load a 650+ hp 455 on the street for more than just a couple seconds? For no more time a true Street strip car sees under a hard load it's just not needed IMO . if we all succumbed to believing all the pitfalls of a BBB we probably wouldn't be able to crank it without it destroying itself every time. For a hard hitting hard launching bracket car that sees lots of exercise time yea those engines need reinforcing. Not looking for an argument BTW just pointing out another perspective.
    70 stage 1 Back under construction
    540 Tomahawk, F1c-94 Procharger
    Holley HP EFI, Stage 2 TE's
    Shooting for 1khp at the tire and 5.50s

    .

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    I appreciate another perspective.

    If the cam has an intake duration around 230* on a wide LSA for street/strip use with a supercharger then the compression is better at 9:1 or less with 91 octane pump gas.
    After all the base engine power doesn't have to be more than 500hp.
    I can understand a higher compression when using a long duration Bullet cam.

    I look at the girdle situation like this.
    A 650 HP engine may be OK at the beginning but dr may find that it is not enough to get the ET he wants at the track and may want to turn it up.
    It doesn't make sense not to spend the extra for a full girdle over the HALO and not have the extra margin of safety to protect the investment of the entire short block.
    The problem is finding a local shop that will do the girdle installation correctly.

    It is not necessarily just about a block cracking or not. It is also about engine longevity due to block stiffness.
    Add to the fact that all blocks are not equal.
    Just my opinion.

    Here's JW's opinion.
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...65#post2552265

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Block/Block Preparation for Procharger

    That's my biggest thing getting it installed correctly and the $ it takes to do so. I'm a big believer in Hard Blok, it's cheap, easily done and very effective. My block I ran was half fill, billet mains and studs. I wish I would have done a halo. It's no secret I like big cams and yes I did and will continue to run Bullet Cams, Richard and them guys do seem to go larger than most grinders. I certainly see where a mild cam will get you into cyl psi problems.
    I have no idea what HP I was at on mine it ran 10.80s at 120 NA and I just bolted the blower on so 900/950 maybe, I will say it was VIOLENT down low and pulled like crazy, it was a 259/267 615/615 on a 110lsa with a 4.10 gear.

    Dr are you opposed to running e85?
    70 stage 1 Back under construction
    540 Tomahawk, F1c-94 Procharger
    Holley HP EFI, Stage 2 TE's
    Shooting for 1khp at the tire and 5.50s

    .

 

 
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