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  1. #26
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    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    Quote Originally Posted by Smartin View Post
    Heavily ported 70 Stage1 iron heads
    Edelbrock Performer intake, gasket matched
    John Osborne prepped Qjet
    Roller rockers
    TA 288-98H cam
    .030 overbore
    Forged pistons with smaller dish (actual static compression was around 9.5-1)
    Rotating assembly was balanced
    Rods polished
    2800 stall convertor
    TH400 with Trans-go shift kit
    3.23 posi rear
    Crane XR-i ignition with John Osborne curved distributor

    did it have a smooth idle? and what MPG did you get on the highway?
    1971 LeSabre Custom 4 door hardtop
    1973 LeSabre Custom 2 door hardtop

    My Free RPM-Speed-Gear Ratio Calculation Tool

  2. #27
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    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    Quote Originally Posted by garybuick View Post
    what I lose of shifting speed i gain in less hp lost to the auto. Plus the fun factor. But could a 350 do it and have a nice smooth idle?

    No. If you had the ported 350 aluminum heads with a nice cam, then I would say yes. It would not have a smooth idle. A smaller engine needs more cam. More cam means lopey idle.

    Have you ever made a pass at the track? Most times, things do not go as planned and Murphy's Law applies. The track will reveal all the weak links in your combination. It takes persistence and tuning to get where you want to be. When it comes to E.T., the 60' time is very important. The efficiency of a manual transmission will not make up for traction problems and shifting difficulties. Like Sean said, forced induction or a 455 will get you to your goal easiest.
    Larry
    1998 "Fully Optioned" SC3800 Riviera
    70 GS 455 Stage1, TSP 470, 602 HP@ 5900, 589 TQ @ 4900
    TA Hyd Roller Cam, 230*/238*, 112, .544"/.577" lift, 4-7 swap
    MSD Digital 6+, Ignitionman Distributor w/MSD trigger
    THM400 with Ultimate 258mm converter, Gear Vendors OD
    AED 1000 HO Carb, 800 CFM 7042240 Quadrajet
    8.5 10 bolt, 3.73's Race weight 4025lbs.
    Best E.T. 11.54 Best MPH, 116.06
    Larrymta@verizon.net, GSCA #291
    BPG # 1063
    N.E. GS/GN Club Assistant Director

  3. #28
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    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    Quote Originally Posted by LARRY70GS View Post
    No. If you had the ported 350 aluminum heads with a nice cam, then I would say yes. It would not have a smooth idle. A smaller engine needs more cam. More cam means lopey idle.

    Have you ever made a pass at the track? Most times, things do not go as planned and Murphy's Law applies. The track will reveal all the weak links in your combination. It takes persistence and tuning to get where you want to be. When it comes to E.T., the 60' time is very important. The efficiency of a manual transmission will not make up for traction problems and shifting difficulties. Like Sean said, forced induction or a 455 will get you to your goal easiest.
    I feel I need to be 13s to be respectable. If manual transmission is so bad then why did the factory muscle cars come with 4 speeds instead of auto on the column? The only other alternative is the 200r4 right? I know you have the turbo with GV but thats expensive. A 3 speed setup would be much cheaper and the cool factor would make my low level undesirable car more valuable. THe WTF factor. But if a 350 has to be lopey to do it then forget it. I have to go 455 all in.
    1971 LeSabre Custom 4 door hardtop
    1973 LeSabre Custom 2 door hardtop

    My Free RPM-Speed-Gear Ratio Calculation Tool

  4. #29
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    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    Quote Originally Posted by LARRY70GS View Post
    No. If you had the ported 350 aluminum heads with a nice cam, then I would say yes. It would not have a smooth idle. A smaller engine needs more cam. More cam means lopey idle.

    Have you ever made a pass at the track? Most times, things do not go as planned and Murphy's Law applies. The track will reveal all the weak links in your combination. It takes persistence and tuning to get where you want to be. When it comes to E.T., the 60' time is very important. The efficiency of a manual transmission will not make up for traction problems and shifting difficulties. Like Sean said, forced induction or a 455 will get you to your goal easiest.
    Sean always likes to exclude adding cubes to a sbb for some reason, which would be yet another way to calm down the idle while being able to obtain his goals.



    Derek
    64 Skylark,401 Nailhead,ST400,3.23:1Posi
    64 Skylark,305Vortec sbc,700R4,12blt Posi 3.73,low 14s. A sbb 300 stroker planned for it.
    72 Skylark Convert. in progress, Not yet assembled 455 .020 over,70 heads with stage1 valves,gasket matched and bowl blended,transmission to be determined.
    65 Chevy Impala,4,400lbs,383sbc,700R4,3.07posi,1.80 60' foot time low 13s @101mph,15mpg city,24mpg highway

  5. #30
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    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    Quote Originally Posted by garybuick View Post
    I feel I need to be 13s to be respectable. If manual transmission is so bad then why did the factory muscle cars come with 4 speeds instead of auto on the column? The only other alternative is the 200r4 right? I know you have the turbo with GV but thats expensive. A 3 speed setup would be much cheaper and the cool factor would make my low level undesirable car more valuable. THe WTF factor. But if a 350 has to be lopey to do it then forget it. I have to go 455 all in.
    Gary, they aren't so bad, and they are cool. They are much harder to make a pass with. They also break more parts. Talk to anyone who races a manual transmission at the track and they will tell you. Much easier to launch an automatic. Very difficult to outshift an automatic as well, but some guys are really good at it. If you are not, you will lose LOTS of E.T.

    I would make a pass with your car just the way it is and see how you do. That will give you an idea about what you are endeavoring to do.

    Yes, the idle will have to be lopey unless your heads flow great. That can happen with the aluminum heads I think, but not with stock unported heads.
    Larry
    1998 "Fully Optioned" SC3800 Riviera
    70 GS 455 Stage1, TSP 470, 602 HP@ 5900, 589 TQ @ 4900
    TA Hyd Roller Cam, 230*/238*, 112, .544"/.577" lift, 4-7 swap
    MSD Digital 6+, Ignitionman Distributor w/MSD trigger
    THM400 with Ultimate 258mm converter, Gear Vendors OD
    AED 1000 HO Carb, 800 CFM 7042240 Quadrajet
    8.5 10 bolt, 3.73's Race weight 4025lbs.
    Best E.T. 11.54 Best MPH, 116.06
    Larrymta@verizon.net, GSCA #291
    BPG # 1063
    N.E. GS/GN Club Assistant Director

  6. #31
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    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    Gary, read the first page of this thread about a sbb 370 stroker;

    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...highlight=1021

    If the engine was setup with a bit more compression to run N/A instead of being setup for boost the dyno numbers they got would of been even higher!








    Derek
    64 Skylark,401 Nailhead,ST400,3.23:1Posi
    64 Skylark,305Vortec sbc,700R4,12blt Posi 3.73,low 14s. A sbb 300 stroker planned for it.
    72 Skylark Convert. in progress, Not yet assembled 455 .020 over,70 heads with stage1 valves,gasket matched and bowl blended,transmission to be determined.
    65 Chevy Impala,4,400lbs,383sbc,700R4,3.07posi,1.80 60' foot time low 13s @101mph,15mpg city,24mpg highway

  7. #32
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    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    Quote Originally Posted by LARRY70GS View Post
    Gary, they aren't so bad, and they are cool. They are much harder to make a pass with. They also break more parts. Talk to anyone who races a manual transmission at the track and they will tell you. Much easier to launch an automatic. Very difficult to outshift an automatic as well, but some guys are really good at it. If you are not, you will lose LOTS of E.T.

    I would make a pass with your car just the way it is and see how you do. That will give you an idea about what you are endeavoring to do.
    Ill see where they have those tracks around here. I know there is one not too far from me where the fellas go to race each other. It is inconceivable to me to be able to take apart an automatic transmission and put it back together. I barely undrestand how the thing works. A manual on the otherhand is doable to me. Its gears and nuts and bolts and clips. I feel like I could work with it if there are problems. I can learn to shift. Just a skill that can be learned. I have been driving stick my whole life so I dont see why I couldnt learn to shift skillfully for 1/8 or 1/4 mile. Id rather do 1/8 anyway where I would only need one shift.
    1971 LeSabre Custom 4 door hardtop
    1973 LeSabre Custom 2 door hardtop

    My Free RPM-Speed-Gear Ratio Calculation Tool

  8. #33
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    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    Quote Originally Posted by garybuick View Post
    Ill see where they have those tracks around here. I know there is one not too far from me where the fellas go to race each other. It is inconceivable to me to be able to take apart an automatic transmission and put it back together. I barely undrestand how the thing works. A manual on the otherhand is doable to me. Its gears and nuts and bolts and clips. I feel like I could work with it if there are problems. I can learn to shift. Just a skill that can be learned. I have been driving stick my whole life so I dont see why I couldnt learn to shift skillfully for 1/8 or 1/4 mile. Id rather do 1/8 anyway where I would only need one shift.
    I'm sure you could. Remember I told you the 1st 60' is very important to E.T.? With a stick, you have to get the RPM exactly right with sticky tires. Too high and you spin, too low, and you bog. Either way, there goes your E.T.
    Larry
    1998 "Fully Optioned" SC3800 Riviera
    70 GS 455 Stage1, TSP 470, 602 HP@ 5900, 589 TQ @ 4900
    TA Hyd Roller Cam, 230*/238*, 112, .544"/.577" lift, 4-7 swap
    MSD Digital 6+, Ignitionman Distributor w/MSD trigger
    THM400 with Ultimate 258mm converter, Gear Vendors OD
    AED 1000 HO Carb, 800 CFM 7042240 Quadrajet
    8.5 10 bolt, 3.73's Race weight 4025lbs.
    Best E.T. 11.54 Best MPH, 116.06
    Larrymta@verizon.net, GSCA #291
    BPG # 1063
    N.E. GS/GN Club Assistant Director

  9. #34

    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    Quote Originally Posted by garybuick View Post
    did it have a smooth idle? and what MPG did you get on the highway?
    Depends on what you call smooth

    I got about 14 mpg on the highway. Here are a couple YouTube videos of my car idling. One at 750, and one at 650 RPM.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E92UNVpCM-o

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZTQ8U-DA_M
    Adam Martin
    BPG# 1358
    BCA# 39765
    1970 Buick Skylark Custom 455 Coupe
    www.antiqueautomotiveservice.com

    http://www.antiqueautomotiveservice.com/images/logo_top.gif

  10. #35
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    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    Quote Originally Posted by LARRY70GS View Post
    I'm sure you could. Remember I told you the 1st 60' is very important to E.T.? With a stick, you have to get the RPM exactly right with sticky tires. Too high and you spin, too low, and you bog. Either way, there goes your E.T.
    Yes I remember. Thats the funnest part of the race. The launch! So its just a matter of feathering it and knowing the rpm to use right? Couldnt manual be an advantage though because you have adjustable launch rpm depending on track and weather conditions, tires etc. ?
    1971 LeSabre Custom 4 door hardtop
    1973 LeSabre Custom 2 door hardtop

    My Free RPM-Speed-Gear Ratio Calculation Tool

  11. #36
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    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    Quote Originally Posted by Smartin View Post
    Depends on what you call smooth

    I got about 14 mpg on the highway. Here are a couple YouTube videos of my car idling. One at 750, and one at 650 RPM.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E92UNVpCM-o

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZTQ8U-DA_M
    I like this one the best
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SV1b4ccif4
    1971 LeSabre Custom 4 door hardtop
    1973 LeSabre Custom 2 door hardtop

    My Free RPM-Speed-Gear Ratio Calculation Tool

  12. #37
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    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    Quote Originally Posted by garybuick View Post
    Yes I remember. Thats the funnest part of the race. The launch! So its just a matter of feathering it and knowing the rpm to use right? Couldnt manual be an advantage though because you have adjustable launch rpm depending on track and weather conditions, tires etc. ?
    Its a disadvantage. Automatics don't miss shifts.
    Jason Cook
    BPG #1675
    "Expert in obsolete technology"

    1968 Riviera GS- some assembly required
    1969 Riviera GS- my first car
    1969 GS-350
    1970 Stage 1 4 speed Aquamist
    1970 GS-455 Bamboo Cream beater
    1971 GS 455 11.93@113.36
    1972 GS-350
    1970 Stellar Industries vintage go kart

    Deo duce, ferro comitante

  13. #38
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    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    Quote Originally Posted by garybuick View Post
    Yes I remember. Thats the funnest part of the race. The launch! So its just a matter of feathering it and knowing the rpm to use right? Couldnt manual be an advantage though because you have adjustable launch rpm depending on track and weather conditions, tires etc. ?

    You need to rev it up and drop the clutch. Like I said, too high and you spin, too low and you bog. Either way, the 60' is bad, and there goes your E.T. Running 13's with a 350 is possible, but it is not easy. To run 13's, you'll need a trap speed in the higher 90's. That's why I think you should get the car down the track now to see where you are now and how far you need to go.
    Larry
    1998 "Fully Optioned" SC3800 Riviera
    70 GS 455 Stage1, TSP 470, 602 HP@ 5900, 589 TQ @ 4900
    TA Hyd Roller Cam, 230*/238*, 112, .544"/.577" lift, 4-7 swap
    MSD Digital 6+, Ignitionman Distributor w/MSD trigger
    THM400 with Ultimate 258mm converter, Gear Vendors OD
    AED 1000 HO Carb, 800 CFM 7042240 Quadrajet
    8.5 10 bolt, 3.73's Race weight 4025lbs.
    Best E.T. 11.54 Best MPH, 116.06
    Larrymta@verizon.net, GSCA #291
    BPG # 1063
    N.E. GS/GN Club Assistant Director

  14. #39

    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    Quote Originally Posted by garybuick View Post
    I was having fuel delivery issues then, and didn't know it. I ended up using a Holley red electric pump near the tank to push fuel. The TA mechanical pump couldn't keep up with the demand.
    Adam Martin
    BPG# 1358
    BCA# 39765
    1970 Buick Skylark Custom 455 Coupe
    www.antiqueautomotiveservice.com

    http://www.antiqueautomotiveservice.com/images/logo_top.gif

  15. #40
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    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    Quote Originally Posted by buick64203 View Post
    Its a disadvantage. Automatics don't miss shifts.
    true but Larry said the the first 60 feet are the most important so I was thinking since you can launch at whatever rpm you want with a manual it may have an advantage in launch.
    1971 LeSabre Custom 4 door hardtop
    1973 LeSabre Custom 2 door hardtop

    My Free RPM-Speed-Gear Ratio Calculation Tool

  16. #41
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    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    Quote Originally Posted by Smartin View Post
    I was having fuel delivery issues then, and didn't know it. I ended up using a Holley red electric pump near the tank to push fuel. The TA mechanical pump couldn't keep up with the demand.
    wow. thristy engine!

    Did you ever time the 1/4 with the street tires on? I wonder how much difference there was.
    1971 LeSabre Custom 4 door hardtop
    1973 LeSabre Custom 2 door hardtop

    My Free RPM-Speed-Gear Ratio Calculation Tool

  17. #42

    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    Quote Originally Posted by garybuick View Post
    wow. thristy engine!

    Did you ever time the 1/4 with the street tires on? I wonder how much difference there was.
    I raced with the FAST guys once at Gateway with my regular white walls. It ran 14.20's. It was hot then, too.
    Adam Martin
    BPG# 1358
    BCA# 39765
    1970 Buick Skylark Custom 455 Coupe
    www.antiqueautomotiveservice.com

    http://www.antiqueautomotiveservice.com/images/logo_top.gif

  18. #43
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    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    Manual transmissions are no fun to rebuild , you need like 4 pair if hands at times seems like
    70 stage 1 Back under construction
    540 Tomahawk, F1c-94 Procharger
    Holley HP EFI, Stage 2 TE's
    Shooting for 1khp at the tire and 5.50s

    .

  19. #44
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    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    Quote Originally Posted by garybuick View Post
    true but Larry said the the first 60 feet are the most important so I was thinking since you can launch at whatever rpm you want with a manual it may have an advantage in launch.
    A proper high stall converter set up for your specific cam, gearing and vehicle weight will have an advantage over a manual through consistency; just mash the gas and it'll hit the same every time. If you need to adjust for track conditions, you can tune your traction through tire pressure.

    There's a lot more to drag racing than just adding more horsepower to go faster. It has to be looked at as a combination and if one thing is off it could hold your et back by a second or more.
    Keith.

    1970 Wildcat 2DR HT.

  20. #45
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    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    Quote Originally Posted by garybuick View Post
    true but Larry said the the first 60 feet are the most important so I was thinking since you can launch at whatever rpm you want with a manual it may have an advantage in launch.

    Gary, you really need to get your car down the track to get some perspective. It is not an advantage. Each tenth of a second in the 1st 60' = 2 tenths in total E.T. at the other end of the track. It is very difficult to get a manual transmission car to launch well, and consistently. You CANNOT launch at any RPM you want.



    Quote Originally Posted by garybuick View Post
    wow. thirsty engine!

    Did you ever time the 1/4 with the street tires on? I wonder how much difference there was.
    There will be a huge difference in E.T. Trying to launch a healthy Buick with street radials is an exercise in FUTILITY. That is why I want you to go to the track in your car, just the way it is. Make a pass, it will open your eyes. Your 60' time with street radials will be well above 2 seconds. Probably 2.2 or 2.3 seconds or more. With Drag Radials, that may drop to 2.00 seconds if you are lucky. That's a difference of 6 tenths or more in E.T.
    Larry
    1998 "Fully Optioned" SC3800 Riviera
    70 GS 455 Stage1, TSP 470, 602 HP@ 5900, 589 TQ @ 4900
    TA Hyd Roller Cam, 230*/238*, 112, .544"/.577" lift, 4-7 swap
    MSD Digital 6+, Ignitionman Distributor w/MSD trigger
    THM400 with Ultimate 258mm converter, Gear Vendors OD
    AED 1000 HO Carb, 800 CFM 7042240 Quadrajet
    8.5 10 bolt, 3.73's Race weight 4025lbs.
    Best E.T. 11.54 Best MPH, 116.06
    Larrymta@verizon.net, GSCA #291
    BPG # 1063
    N.E. GS/GN Club Assistant Director

  21. #46
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    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    I will go there after the holidays and make a run. I wonder what they charge for that. Still Smarting did run low 14s with whitewalls probably 225s. 275s would make a difference no?
    1971 LeSabre Custom 4 door hardtop
    1973 LeSabre Custom 2 door hardtop

    My Free RPM-Speed-Gear Ratio Calculation Tool

  22. #47

    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    They were 225's but any highway radial will fry with any amount of power. You need drag radials to hook up.
    Adam Martin
    BPG# 1358
    BCA# 39765
    1970 Buick Skylark Custom 455 Coupe
    www.antiqueautomotiveservice.com

    http://www.antiqueautomotiveservice.com/images/logo_top.gif

  23. #48
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    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    Quote Originally Posted by garybuick View Post
    I will go there after the holidays and make a run. I wonder what they charge for that. Still Smarting did run low 14s with whitewalls probably 225s. 275s would make a difference no?
    Can your car turn the tires now on the street? If not, you will probably be able to hook at the track. You will get a timeslip, and then you will see what I am talking about. You'll need a sub 2 second 60' and a high 90's trap speed to run 13's. Don't think you will even be close, but it will give you great information on where you are, and you will have lots of fun.
    Larry
    1998 "Fully Optioned" SC3800 Riviera
    70 GS 455 Stage1, TSP 470, 602 HP@ 5900, 589 TQ @ 4900
    TA Hyd Roller Cam, 230*/238*, 112, .544"/.577" lift, 4-7 swap
    MSD Digital 6+, Ignitionman Distributor w/MSD trigger
    THM400 with Ultimate 258mm converter, Gear Vendors OD
    AED 1000 HO Carb, 800 CFM 7042240 Quadrajet
    8.5 10 bolt, 3.73's Race weight 4025lbs.
    Best E.T. 11.54 Best MPH, 116.06
    Larrymta@verizon.net, GSCA #291
    BPG # 1063
    N.E. GS/GN Club Assistant Director

  24. #49
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    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    Quote Originally Posted by LARRY70GS View Post
    Can your car turn the tires now on the street? If not, you will probably be able to hook at the track. You will get a timeslip, and then you will see what I am talking about. You'll need a sub 2 second 60' and a high 90's trap speed to run 13's. Don't think you will even be close, but it will give you great information on where you are, and you will have lots of fun.
    Cannot break them loose
    1971 LeSabre Custom 4 door hardtop
    1973 LeSabre Custom 2 door hardtop

    My Free RPM-Speed-Gear Ratio Calculation Tool

  25. #50
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    Default Re: I weighed my 73 LeSabre today and 300hp should be enough to get into the 13s

    If it can't break traction on the street you will probably be in 17's, IE a Long way to go, but like Larry said it wouldn't hurt to know
    70 stage 1 Back under construction
    540 Tomahawk, F1c-94 Procharger
    Holley HP EFI, Stage 2 TE's
    Shooting for 1khp at the tire and 5.50s

    .

 

 
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