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  1. #1
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    Default 350 Buick heads flow some air

    Just thought I would post some numbers on another set of 350 Buick heads after porting.
    Theses heads flow 274 cfm on the intake at .500 lift and 197 on the exhaust at .500 lift, at .550 on the exhaust, they flow 203 cfm.
    Jim Burek P.A.E. ENTERPRISES.

  2. #2
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    Default

    Good info Jim, keep up the good 350 work!
    Phil Green
    72 GS350 449hp 447tq , 390 gears, and 200 4r
    1981 RX7 with 5.3L LS (Project)

  3. #3
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    Default

    How well did the 350 heads pick up with a well worked bowl, good valve job and just cleaned up port? Did you you have to do much to port itself to get those #'s? Those are some good #'s. It would be good to see more 350 SB guys join the speed game. I think with good flowing cylinder heads they should be able to post some good #'s. I'm ready to see some 9 and 10 sec 350 Regals and GS's. With a power adder and a good combination, its not far off. The question is, Who's Going To Step Up To The Plate?
    Nitrous is just a "poor-man's blower" on a payment plan.
    Rick Crawford
    72 GS w/Nitrous'd 466
    8.96 @133
    5.50 @129.5 1/8mi, 1.36 60ft
    2009 Pontiac G8 GT 10.87 @127 full street trim, 285/40-18 drag radials

  4. #4
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    Default

    Buicks4Speed said:How well did the 350 heads pick up with a well worked bowl, good valve job and just cleaned up port? Did you you have to do much to port itself to get those #'s? Those are some good #'s. It would be good to see more 350 SB guys join the speed game. I think with good flowing cylinder heads they should be able to post some good #'s. I'm ready to see some 9 and 10 sec 350 Regals and GS's. With a power adder and a good combination, its not far off. The question is, Who's Going To Step Up To The Plate?



    Rick, these heads take quite a bit of work to get this much air flow out of them. Let's just say it takes lots of bowl work. The ports are not opened up much, gasket matching and some work around the head bolt boss. Jim Burek

  5. #5
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    Default

    I had my stock 350 heads have a pocket port job, with a competition valve job and backcut valves, I picked up a 13% increase in air flow over stock.
    These are the numbers at .500 lift Intake before 188, after 206
    exhaust before 137, after 152.
    I didn't do any port matching, I have not put the engine together yetso would it be worth it to port match my exhaust?
    Tim
    Tim
    72 GS455 4 speed 1 of 84
    TSP built 455. .030 over forged pistons, 9.3-1 cr, TA113 cam, ported 430 heads, TA headers, Performer intake, MSD digital 6 ign. 3.42 gears
    Dyno'd at 455hp, 518lbs torque
    13.01 at 108mph with a 2.28 60'

    Former cars:
    65 Lark with 430-4, TH400 13.85/101mph
    70 GS455 12.50/113.50mph
    68 Riviera
    72 Stage 1-4 speed Sloan Documented

  6. #6
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    Default

    Very nice Jim.
    We've been working on a few sets here and were able to get 292/214 @ .500. But this was with pretty extensive port work.
    On a Superflowmaster at 28".
    I would really really like to see a 300 but I think we might pop a few holes trying to get there.

    PS. Our little procharger projects both tore themselves apart.
    But on a good note, we did see mid 7's hp at 15 lbs. with the sbb before it went over the crank and rods at 6800 rpm.
    If at first you don't succeed.............
    Bill

  7. #7
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    ellington, ct
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    Default

    jim,
    are they coming to me gift wrapped?
    cant wait to get the motor together and warm up the driveway..lol
    john

  8. #8
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    Default

    gsjohnny said:jim,
    are they coming to me gift wrapped?
    cant wait to get the motor together and warm up the driveway..lol
    john



    Welll, wrapped anyway. They should make that littel 350 come to life. Jim

  9. #9
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    Default

    BillMah52 said:Very nice Jim.
    We've been working on a few sets here and were able to get 292/214 @ .500. But this was with pretty extensive port work.
    On a Superflowmaster at 28".
    I would really really like to see a 300 but I think we might pop a few holes trying to get there.

    PS. Our little procharger projects both tore themselves apart.
    But on a good note, we did see mid 7's hp at 15 lbs. with the sbb before it went over the crank and rods at 6800 rpm.
    If at first you don't succeed.............


    Now that's some pretty impressive power from a motor that aint supposed to run. Amazing what a littel boost can do eh?
    Let's see, 15 pounds of boost, that would be like a 700 inch motor wrapped in a 350 inch package. Jim Burek

  10. #10
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    ellington, ct
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    jim,
    it will be certainly interesting to watch my son's face when he drives it.

    bill,
    tell me more about those chargers.........
    we are only a few hours away.
    john

  11. #11
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    Default

    Hey Bill, If you don't mind me asking what was the specs on your 350 build up? Did you just hurt the rods and that messed up the crank? Was it a oil problem/ spun bearing that ate it? Crank break? Do you think you could adjust the combination to get it to live at mid 7 #'s?
    Nitrous is just a "poor-man's blower" on a payment plan.
    Rick Crawford
    72 GS w/Nitrous'd 466
    8.96 @133
    5.50 @129.5 1/8mi, 1.36 60ft
    2009 Pontiac G8 GT 10.87 @127 full street trim, 285/40-18 drag radials

  12. #12
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    Rick,
    The build was close to a copy of the one J.B. did for Rob (TuBBed).
    We did find a set of TRW forged pistons (inverted dome) that put it at 8.5:1. They were Pontiac pistons so I believe there were adjustments necessary ( pins & crank).
    We had stock '70 rods so that may have been part of the problem.
    Solid cam 245/253 @ .050
    Intake was a stg. 1 with the divider cut 3/4".
    Now the wild stuff: We fabbed a 5" spacer between the carb and manifold. (750 Holley) All the duct from the D1 procharger to the carb hat used long radius 90* elbows rather than short radius to help reduce turbulence.
    Oil was not the problem as the bearings were fine.
    We bent 4 rods, broke 2 others, and bent the crank.
    We are thinking it was the cam. Will know more after some more examining.
    With the numbers that J.B. made with a n/a engine I really believe these little engines could put their bowtie cousins to shame. With the right parts and setup, a boosted 350 should be able to push 750 - 800 hp and remain healthy.
    We'll see!

    What do you think? Any thoughts?
    Bill

  13. #13
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    Default

    BillMah52 said:Rick,
    The build was close to a copy of the one J.B. did for Rob (TuBBed).
    We did find a set of TRW forged pistons (inverted dome) that put it at 8.5:1. They were Pontiac pistons so I believe there were adjustments necessary ( pins & crank).
    We had stock '70 rods so that may have been part of the problem.
    Solid cam 245/253 @ .050
    Intake was a stg. 1 with the divider cut 3/4".
    Now the wild stuff: We fabbed a 5" spacer between the carb and manifold. (750 Holley) All the duct from the D1 procharger to the carb hat used long radius 90* elbows rather than short radius to help reduce turbulence.
    Oil was not the problem as the bearings were fine.
    We bent 4 rods, broke 2 others, and bent the crank.
    We are thinking it was the cam. Will know more after some more examining.
    With the numbers that J.B. made with a n/a engine I really believe these little engines could put their bowtie cousins to shame. With the right parts and setup, a boosted 350 should be able to push 750 - 800 hp and remain healthy.
    We'll see!

    What do you think? Any thoughts?


    Bill, I suspect the rods could not take it. The earlier rods definately are not as good as the later ones and of course we used really light pistons, which helps. But your set-up sounds very interesting there. Just need some stronger internal components in that thing. Jim Burek

  14. #14
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    Default

    Well, I got some thoughts...... Those TRW's are usually pretty heavy pistons that are alot more stress to a stock rod at rpm. If you stick with a stock rod and want to make power, definitely spend the money on a decent piston.
    I know your cam is wrong for more than 6-7 lbs of boost. You could have had problems just because you had the wrong cam. With nitrous motors, if you push more nitrous than the cam and airflow requirements allow, they will come apart. You could be wasting ALOT of Hp by not having enough exhaust duration/added flow. You can get away with the wrong lobe centers but not with duration and/or flow. Your motor could have been working at an 800+ Hp pase but only putting out 750. The load is there the #'s aren't. Since you have to get another cam, try about 7 more degrees on the exhaust and keep the LC about 114. If the LC makes it too lazy than drop the intake duration to 238-235. You can get away with more compression if the cams big enough. What LC's were you running on your cam. WHat centerline did you install the cam at.
    Nitrous is just a "poor-man's blower" on a payment plan.
    Rick Crawford
    72 GS w/Nitrous'd 466
    8.96 @133
    5.50 @129.5 1/8mi, 1.36 60ft
    2009 Pontiac G8 GT 10.87 @127 full street trim, 285/40-18 drag radials

  15. #15
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    Rick,
    We kinda knew this engine would self destruct. First time on the dyno it lifted the heads at about 6300 rpm. Didn't even damage the gaskets! Boost was almost 16#. We had a feeling the cam was short on the exhaust. LC was 109*, set 2* advanced.
    There is a long story regarding this whole scenario.
    A few months ago when Jim posted the dyno results for Rob's build I took the numbers to a friend of 35 years who is a very successful builder and racer of Chevy engines. He was pretty impressed with the numbers produced from what he called a "low mod" n/a setup.
    I asked why he never gave the Buick engines a second look and he said because the bbb had too many weak spots and just never gave the small block a second thought.
    After a little prodding and a good amount of grovelling he agreed to check one out to see what kind of potential it had.
    I rounded up whatever "go fast" parts I could find quickly so we could do this little experiment.
    Originally, we only planned on maybe 8-10 lbs. boost max but we didn't want to wait for the pulleys from ATI and went with what he had - hence the 16 lbs.
    Now the really great part about this is it only cost me a grand total of $470.
    And the even better part is that it peaked his interest. He already has another crank, a set of capscrew rods, and is talking of having pistons made.
    And yes, I'm sure he'll put the right cam for the setup in it this time.
    More to come.............
    Bill

  16. #16
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    Dublin Ga.
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    Default

    Hey Jim,

    Are the flow number that you have gotten with these heads, and also the heads one the engine you built for Rob, normal. Or are they more of the exceptions rather than the means. Just wondering what are the chances of getting repeated results like these from my heads.
    Thomas Kelly:

    69 Skylark 350*


    Big Car - Little Town

  17. #17
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    Kazama said:Hey Jim,

    Are the flow number that you have gotten with these heads, and also the heads one the engine you built for Rob, normal. Or are they more of the exceptions rather than the means. Just wondering what are the chances of getting repeated results like these from my heads.


    They are repeatable. Robs heads were the first we really di some serious porting on. I just finished another set that out did Robs on the exhaust side.
    There just have'nt been many people looking to really push the 350 Buick's. But there is some really good potential there.
    Jim Burek

  18. #18
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    I'll be waiting to see some good #'s.
    Nitrous is just a "poor-man's blower" on a payment plan.
    Rick Crawford
    72 GS w/Nitrous'd 466
    8.96 @133
    5.50 @129.5 1/8mi, 1.36 60ft
    2009 Pontiac G8 GT 10.87 @127 full street trim, 285/40-18 drag radials

  19. #19
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    Default

    we will find out when we get to salem........

    john

  20. #20
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    Default 350 heads

    buick535 said:They are repeatable. Robs heads were the first we really di some serious porting on. I just finished another set that out did Robs on the exhaust side.
    There just have'nt been many people looking to really push the 350 Buick's. But there is some really good potential there.
    Jim Burek
    Jim
    Don't know if you remember me ..but you did a set of 350 heads for me on 6/9/00...I still have the flow chart you sent with the heads ....intake was 246CFM at .500 lift and exhaust was 168CFM at .500 lift...on the bottom of the page you wrote" exhaust to intake ratio 68%...and 246 cfm is capable of making "467 Horsepower"...you also set me up with a Comp cam #270H.. and a set of adjustable push rods for my 70 GS 350...I never really did any serious racing with the car ( YET )...but it sure does run well ... Just thought people would like to know how far back that you did some serious head work on the LITTLE 350 Buick motor... .
    Bill
    BPG #1535

  21. #21
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    Default Re: 350 heads

    Torque said:Jim
    Don't know if you remember me ..but you did a set of 350 heads for me on 6/9/00...I still have the flow chart you sent with the heads ....intake was 246CFM at .500 lift and exhaust was 168CFM at .500 lift...on the bottom of the page you wrote" exhaust to intake ratio 68%...and 246 cfm is capable of making "467 Horsepower"...you also set me up with a Comp cam #270H.. and a set of adjustable push rods for my 70 GS 350...I never really did any serious racing with the car ( YET )...but it sure does run well ... Just thought people would like to know how far back that you did some serious head work on the LITTLE 350 Buick motor... .


    Thanks Bill. I have had very good results with 350 heads over the years. Have'nt done anywhere near as many as 455's. Even a 350 head in the 240 range is very good. The only down side to the 270 cfm stuff at this point is that the intake can't feed it, so alot of horsepower gets left on the table so to speak.
    Anyway, I do like the little 350's, I believe their day is yet to come. Jim Burek

  22. #22
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    Default

    Jim B.,
    Just an update on our heads. We tried to tweak a little more out of the port runners looking for that magic 300. Not good results, we lost on the intake and picked nothing up on exhaust. 270/213.
    Still impressive but I know there is more there.
    It all seems to be in the bowl.
    Now on to plan B. Where's my tub of epoxy!
    More to come...........
    Bill

  23. #23
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BillMah52
    Jim B.,
    Just an update on our heads. We tried to tweak a little more out of the port runners looking for that magic 300. Not good results, we lost on the intake and picked nothing up on exhaust. 270/213.
    Still impressive but I know there is more there.
    It all seems to be in the bowl.
    Now on to plan B. Where's my tub of epoxy!
    More to come...........

    Bill, very interesting. Yeah, those little 350 heads are pretty impressive. I almost think much over 270 on the intake side will get into water. You are right about the bowl though. Jim Burek

  24. #24
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BillMah52
    PS. Our little procharger projects both tore themselves apart.
    But on a good note, we did see mid 7's hp at 15 lbs. with the sbb before it went over the crank and rods at 6800 rpm.
    If at first you don't succeed.............
    I've been considering putting a blower on my 350 and I'd like to learn more about your project. What were the boost/HP/TQ numbers at 5500 RPM? I would never expect stock rods to live at 6800 RPM and if I can get the power I want at 5500, the engine will be that much cheaper to build. Have you done anymore work on this project?
    Andy, 1970 Skylark Custom

    Support your country
    Support your neighbors
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  25. #25
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    I have a set of 68's are they any better than say 70 on up ?
    chris katsuleas
    72 GS 350 numbers matching keeper
    ?
    02 sun fire se

 

 
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