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  1. #51
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    Aug 2004
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    Massachusetts
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    Ken, one of these days I will step up to the 21'st century and buy a digital camera so I can post some of these pics.
    Dave, Seeing Yellow
    71 GS Stage-1 Now Sold.

    Now have real 70 GSX 4 Speed QQ

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Troy MI
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    Default

    Good post...

    ...I don't want to rain on your parade but I would encourage you all to not get too wrapped up in this. Having worked in an assembly plant (...granted, it was the truck plant...) some of these things were not a controlled engineering release.

    The crayons, for example. I guarantee if the operator lost his, or was running out, he would grab one off the floor or off someone else's desk and use it for the rest of the day.

    Where I draw the line is the "silver vs black" bolt debate. I have been 'round and 'round with the Corvette guys on this one, without much success. My example here is that we had a bolt released (pt no 3846202 - pretty good, eh, after 20 years!) that was used pretty much on the whole front of the truck, for the fender nose and radiator support attachments. The problem was that bolts manufactured by "Lang" would cross thread regularly, which was a big repair. Bolts manufactured by "Ferndale" would not cross thread as easily, for whatever reason. One was silver; one was black. Guess which one we used? Naturally, we used the ones that didn't crossthread. When we ran out we would sneak over to the other assembly line, steal pretty much everything they had and run all night. Any that we had left over we would secure in our lockers for use the next night.

    Bottom line is that these vehicles were built by individuals, human beings with free thought, and they/we would do whatever it took to get cars and trucks off the end of the line. That's my $.04, for what it's worth.

    One other thought: something else to look out for is that in the event we had to rework a part, or repair it prior to its use, we would often mark that with a particular color paint dot. If you ever see some that can't be accounted for this might be the case...

    K
    2008 NMCA Original Parts Group "Nostalgia Muscle Car" #3
    2007 NSCA Rocket Fuels "American Muscle" World Champion Runner Up
    2006 NSCA Jeg's "American Muscle" #10
    2005 NSCA Jeg's "American Muscle" #6
    2004 NSCA Ramchargers "American Muscle" #4
    2003 NMCA BF Goodrich "American Muscle" World Champion Runner Up
    2002 NMCA/NSCA Mickey Thompson "Street Eliminator" #3
    2001 NMCA Mickey Thompson "Street Eliminator" #6
    JAMA Racing Ministries Chaplain to the NSCA

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Troy MI
    Posts
    1,605

    Default

    ...I'm such a "thread killer"...

    Sorry guys, carry on...
    2008 NMCA Original Parts Group "Nostalgia Muscle Car" #3
    2007 NSCA Rocket Fuels "American Muscle" World Champion Runner Up
    2006 NSCA Jeg's "American Muscle" #10
    2005 NSCA Jeg's "American Muscle" #6
    2004 NSCA Ramchargers "American Muscle" #4
    2003 NMCA BF Goodrich "American Muscle" World Champion Runner Up
    2002 NMCA/NSCA Mickey Thompson "Street Eliminator" #3
    2001 NMCA Mickey Thompson "Street Eliminator" #6
    JAMA Racing Ministries Chaplain to the NSCA

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    6,571

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    Keith,
    The title "thread killer" is usually reserved for me. Glad you accepted the new title/position.
    Duane
    Duane Heckman, Owner of Classic Car Interiors

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    6,571

    Default

    Ken,
    I was digging around and found this picture. It was taken from an early 70 Stage 1 4-speed car with the large aluminum front drums. You can see the Orange paint dab at the top outside (for HD spindles), and the yellow on the back for drum brakes. (The picture you posted, "green" would indicate disc brakes).

    You can also see the copper cotter pin and that the end of the upper ball joint bolt is painted skyblue.

    This same car had bright orange paint dabs on each tie rod adjuster sleeve to verify the parts were torqued. Enjoy.
    Duane

    PS. Depending on the year the body mounts themselves, between the body and the frame, at the fire wall locations could have been either orange or violet. Thought I would let you know.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Duane Heckman, Owner of Classic Car Interiors

  6. #56
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    1,566

    Default

    ttt

    1969 GS400 Convertible Auto STG1
    1969 GS400 Convertible 4spd My first car 1983
    1969 GS400 Convertible 4spd
    1970 GSX # 366 Auto STG 1
    1970 GSX # 308 Auto
    1970 GS 455 Convertible 4spd
    1970 GS 455 Convertible Auto
    1971 GS455 Convertible 4Spd
    1971 GS 455 Convertible 4spd STG1
    1971 GS 350 Convertible 4spd
    1972 GS 350 Convertible 4spd
    1972 GS 350 Convertible Auto
    1972 GS 455 Convertible Auto STG1

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Dearborn Mi
    Posts
    1,420

    Default Re: 70 stage 1

    ttt
    71 GS 350 Convertible 4 speed
    70 GS 455
    69 GS Stage 2 10.08@131
    68/69 Stepchild Nation

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Sacramento CA area
    Posts
    3,664

    Default Re: Firewall Forward Finishes and Markings- Part Deux

    My take is that chassis black has higher gloss to the point of being Semi-gloss, as compared to satin.

    Is this a fair assessment?

    I'm right in the middle of a quickie underhood clean up before that big red thing goes back in the middle.
    BadBrad
    '70 GS455 - Power Brute Super T10 4spd
    ex. '70 GSX
    New Project: 2000 Mercury Grand Marquis - for the kids to drive.
    New Muscle: 2013 Ford Taurus SHO - Twin Turbo Terror

    Spare 455 on the stand, just in case!


    Slideshow of BadBrad's Car: http://s517.photobucket.com/albums/u...view=slideshow

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    872

    Default Re: Firewall Forward Finishes and Markings- Part Deux

    GENERAL MOTORS CORPORATE PERFORMANCE RACING DIVISON TEST DRIVER

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    13,142

    Default Re: Firewall Forward Finishes and Markings- Part Deux

    Anyones guess. These things varied from batch to batch. Parts came from different plants. Observations I have made on original cars showed the core support and inner wheel wells and brackets and pulleys may have been a bit more glossy than the say the firewall. I have seen some cars with a bit more gloss than expected on firewall also. The air cleaners were gloss black however.
    Dave, Seeing Yellow
    71 GS Stage-1 Now Sold.

    Now have real 70 GSX 4 Speed QQ

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    5,506

    Default Re: Firewall Forward Finishes and Markings- Part Deux

    Quote Originally Posted by copperheadgs1 View Post
    Anyones guess. These things varied from batch to batch. Parts came from different plants. Observations I have made on original cars showed the core support and inner wheel wells and brackets and pulleys may have been a bit more glossy than the say the firewall. I have seen some cars with a bit more gloss than expected on firewall also. The air cleaners were gloss black however.
    I think the quick follow-up would be to say if you painted everything the exact same sheen- would be wrong. There's some general guidelines, but Dave makes a good point. What came into the factory on a particular day probably varied quite a bit. These were asssembly line cars, not show pieces.
    Ken Lisk
    Happiness is a long smokey burnout.
    '71 Limemist GSX, Restored 2010 by Gran Sport Garage, aka Nick Serwo
    '72 Riviera, Crystal Blue
    '63 225 'Vert Bahama Blue
    BPG# 1409
    NE-GS/GN Member
    ROA Member# 12258
    GSCA Member# 1176
    AACA Member# 993257

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Sacramento CA area
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    Default Re: Firewall Forward Finishes and Markings- Part Deux

    Good input guys. Gonna go with semi-gloss on the frame; stick with satin for the core support, wheel houses, firewall.

    One interesting fact about my car - firewall was painted body color as it is a special paint order car. That paint was so oxidized though after so many hot years that I hit it with satin black just because it looks so much better.
    BadBrad
    '70 GS455 - Power Brute Super T10 4spd
    ex. '70 GSX
    New Project: 2000 Mercury Grand Marquis - for the kids to drive.
    New Muscle: 2013 Ford Taurus SHO - Twin Turbo Terror

    Spare 455 on the stand, just in case!


    Slideshow of BadBrad's Car: http://s517.photobucket.com/albums/u...view=slideshow

  13. #63
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    Aug 2004
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    Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Firewall Forward Finishes and Markings- Part Deux

    Strange brad, I have never heard of a car with body color firewall?
    Dave, Seeing Yellow
    71 GS Stage-1 Now Sold.

    Now have real 70 GSX 4 Speed QQ

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Sacramento CA area
    Posts
    3,664

    Default Re: Firewall Forward Finishes and Markings- Part Deux

    Yeah - pretty wild. Nor had I. And it is obviously original - grease pencil above the tunnel "spec."
    BadBrad
    '70 GS455 - Power Brute Super T10 4spd
    ex. '70 GSX
    New Project: 2000 Mercury Grand Marquis - for the kids to drive.
    New Muscle: 2013 Ford Taurus SHO - Twin Turbo Terror

    Spare 455 on the stand, just in case!


    Slideshow of BadBrad's Car: http://s517.photobucket.com/albums/u...view=slideshow

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Brownstown, MI
    Posts
    1,420

    Default Re: Firewall Forward Finishes and Markings- Part Deux

    I was reading about the "as cast" parts like tie rods spindles etc and was wondering about some of the frame off restos that we have seen lately.
    I picked up a can of the Duplicolor DE-1651 Cast Coat Iron and the color seems to resemble a "as cast" dark grey color but some of the frame offs that I've been seeing the steering parts look almost silver.
    69 GS400 convertible 4-speed
    69 GS STG 2 10.04@130
    68/69 STEPCHILD NATION
    [IMG][/IMG]

  16. #66
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    Jan 2003
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    5,506

    Default Re: Firewall Forward Finishes and Markings- Part Deux

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd69GS View Post
    I was reading about the "as cast" parts like tie rods spindles etc and was wondering about some of the frame off restos that we have seen lately.
    I picked up a can of the Duplicolor DE-1651 Cast Coat Iron and the color seems to resemble a "as cast" dark grey color but some of the frame offs that I've been seeing the steering parts look almost silver.
    There was a recent article in one of the rags about SlipPlate that's a graphite based products that made exhaust manifolds (after bead blast) look just like cast iron and supposedly had good durability.. I imagine it would work on other-as cast parts as well.
    Ken Lisk
    Happiness is a long smokey burnout.
    '71 Limemist GSX, Restored 2010 by Gran Sport Garage, aka Nick Serwo
    '72 Riviera, Crystal Blue
    '63 225 'Vert Bahama Blue
    BPG# 1409
    NE-GS/GN Member
    ROA Member# 12258
    GSCA Member# 1176
    AACA Member# 993257

  17. #67
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    Aug 2004
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    Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Firewall Forward Finishes and Markings- Part Deux

    Steering parts should not be too silver. I was going to use the Slip plate stuff Ken mentioned as well. It would be great for master cylinder and steering box where brake fluid or grease ruins any paint quick. I used some primer on my master cylinder and residual brake fluid ruined it already.
    Dave, Seeing Yellow
    71 GS Stage-1 Now Sold.

    Now have real 70 GSX 4 Speed QQ

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    NE of Nashville,TN
    Posts
    1,031

    Default Re: Firewall Forward Finishes and Markings- Part Deux

    This should be a sticky.
    Last edited by jimhirt; 04-09-2008 at 05:33 AM.
    The "Tennessee Buick Boys" are proud owners of:
    BPG 1995
    1970 GS Stage 1,19 A
    1970 GS 455 Convertible

  19. #69
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    Aug 2004
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    Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Firewall Forward Finishes and Markings- Part Deux

    Though I would drag this nice post back out of mothballs. Anyone knwo the correct color for the coild bracket 70-72? I have heard Zinc but I have a grease covered one that looks maybe liek silver cad? Anyone know for sure or have a good untouched one they could check?
    Dave, Seeing Yellow
    71 GS Stage-1 Now Sold.

    Now have real 70 GSX 4 Speed QQ

  20. #70
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    Feb 2002
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    North Carolina
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    Default Re: Firewall Forward Finishes and Markings- Part Deux

    As I recall it is the same mag phosphate, not zinc, coating as the hood hinges. I think JW has them done in the same batch.
    Jim Lore
    BPG 1037
    "If you cannot clear up the confusion at least make the confusion clear."

  21. #71
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    Aug 2004
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    Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Firewall Forward Finishes and Markings- Part Deux

    Jim, I think the hood hinges are officially Gray Phosphate And zinc is more like the shiney hardware store buckets. My old bracket is more shiney than the hinges.
    Dave, Seeing Yellow
    71 GS Stage-1 Now Sold.

    Now have real 70 GSX 4 Speed QQ

  22. #72
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    Feb 2002
    Location
    North Carolina
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    26,524

    Default Re: Firewall Forward Finishes and Markings- Part Deux

    Sorry it is mag phosphate as I edited above.
    Jim Lore
    BPG 1037
    "If you cannot clear up the confusion at least make the confusion clear."

  23. #73
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    26,524

    Default Re: Firewall Forward Finishes and Markings- Part Deux

    Jim Lore
    BPG 1037
    "If you cannot clear up the confusion at least make the confusion clear."

  24. #74
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    Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Firewall Forward Finishes and Markings- Part Deux

    Thanks Jim. The research never ends.
    Dave, Seeing Yellow
    71 GS Stage-1 Now Sold.

    Now have real 70 GSX 4 Speed QQ

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    2,155

    Exclamation Re: Firewall Forward Finishes and Markings- Part Deux

    Paint daubs and crayon marks were visual queues to show inspectors and line workers that certain operations and torque specs were done. The line moved at 65 cars per hour, so the process of visualization was used to save time and minimize rework.

    At the Framingham plant in the 1972 time frame, these marks were used, along with a "body traveler" sheet that was used by inspectors to approve specific operations. Each inspector had a punch that used a unique mark.

    Crayons were all colors: white, green, blue.

    As sar as the paint hues on chassis and suspension, they came in with the minimum of black on them. the chassis fasteners were black oxide with just enough oil to prevent rust until it left the plant.....

    The amount of TLC given to these cars was as low as possible...."Quantity, not quality" was the motto.

 

 
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