Welcome to V8Buick.com.
Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 131
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    SW Ohio
    Posts
    400

    Default 9 3/8" rear differences

    I've been tracing some differences worth mentioning between various 9 3/8" rears. First, a recently discussed issue concerns the 67-70 big rear asking if a 3.07 posi carrier can be used with a 3.42 gear. The answer is NO, at least not without a ring gear spacer. My 67 Riv has a 3.07 gear. I spotted a 70 Riv with a posi this week at a local yard. I removed the posi, and grabbed the gears also since they were 3.42. I was planning to install this posi with my 3.07 gears, not really wanting a 3.42 for the highway. Good thing I grabbed the gears, because the carriers are DIFFERENT. This actually makes good sense because with the 71-75 big rear, the 2.73-3.23 carrier is different from the 3.42 carrier.
    See in the picture, the gear mounting flange is a different height. These are both 67-70 carriers, the posi was used with a 3.42, and the open carrier was used with a 3.07. They are different. I will go ahead and use the 3.42 gears so that I can make use of the posi, and run some really tall tires to tame it.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    David Powell
    76 LeSabre 2dr 455 12.54@107
    76 LeSabre 4dr ht 455 14.50@93
    73 Riviera 455
    83 Regal 455 11.70@116

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    SW Ohio
    Posts
    400

    Default

    Here is a close up of the difference in flange height. It' approximately .175". Both carriers are sitting on their ends on a level surface, not resting in any way on the bearing.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    David Powell
    76 LeSabre 2dr 455 12.54@107
    76 LeSabre 4dr ht 455 14.50@93
    73 Riviera 455
    83 Regal 455 11.70@116

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    SW Ohio
    Posts
    400

    Default

    Next, I am comparing the 67-70 design with the 71-75 design. There have been questions as to whether the carriers interchange. Again, the answer is NO. 67-70 rears are 30 spline, 71-75 are 31 spline. My 67 axle falls right through a 71-75 side gear. In addition, the left bearing on a 67-70 carrier is much bigger than the right one. Both sides are the smaller bearing for 71-75. Is it just the bearings? Again NO. The neck diameter is the same, so you could technically run two small bearings on a 67-70 carrier, but the length of the neck is longer on the left side for the bigger bearing. A spacer would be needed.
    Also, the ring gear flange height changed again. In the picture is a 2.73-3.23 71-75 carrier sitting next to the 67-70 3.42 posi. The flange height oddly enough is nearly the same, when it should be approximately .175" lower. Even getting beyond all of this, you would still need to deal with the difference in spline count by playing with side gears. But I don't think you would get very far with this because the 67-70 posi is clearly an Eaton design, while the 71-75 posi is clearly not an Eaton design, so the side gears, clutches, etc are totally different.
    Bottom line is that just about every question having to do with the big rear can be answered with a NO, including parts availability. Much scavenging is required to support these rears. I have been lucky enough to find a 3.42 posi and a 2.93 posi for my 76 LeSabres, and now a 3.42 posi for the 67 Riv. But it has taken some searching. At least the bearings and seals seem to be available. I have even bought rear cover gaskets through NAPA for both types. A good way out on the 71-76 cars is to find an 8.5" bolt in axle version, for those have good parts availability. I have not been forced to go this route yet. But up to 70, there really is no alternative to scrounging.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    David Powell
    76 LeSabre 2dr 455 12.54@107
    76 LeSabre 4dr ht 455 14.50@93
    73 Riviera 455
    83 Regal 455 11.70@116

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Buffalo Gap, TX
    Posts
    3,492

    Default

    Wow. Thanks for doing the legwork on this!!!

    This needs to be a Sticky!

    Now to save this thread to hard drive...
    James BPG #1604
    Still own my first car: '71 LeSabre - the 2NABOT (formerly the World's 2nd Fastest 350-powered Big Buick) Now 455-powered.
    '62 Ranchero w/ '68 200 Six and Column-shift 3-speed. Cruuuuuise-mobile.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Buffalo Gap, TX
    Posts
    3,492

    Default 9 3/8 rear housing differences

    To add info about the big rear housings, summarized from the 2 or 3 other discussions:

    It looks like there were 5 versions of 9 3/8 rearends, in 3 "generations", and nothing from one generation will interchange with another generation:

    '66 Riv: One UCA and a panhard rod, L & R carrier brngs same
    '66 E/L/W: 2 UCA and no panhard rod, L & R carrier brngs same

    '67 to '70 Riv: One UCA and a panhard rod, L & R carrier brngs different
    '67 to '70 E/L/W: 2 UCA and no panhard rod, L & R carrier brngs different

    '71 to '73 ALL: 2 UCAs and no panhard rod, L & R carrier brngs different

    The '70 rear end housing won't go into a '71 car, because the mounting ears for the control arms are in different places.


    Only one question left: Will the '66 housings go into a '67-'70 or '71-'73 car, or are their mounting points different?
    James BPG #1604
    Still own my first car: '71 LeSabre - the 2NABOT (formerly the World's 2nd Fastest 350-powered Big Buick) Now 455-powered.
    '62 Ranchero w/ '68 200 Six and Column-shift 3-speed. Cruuuuuise-mobile.

  6. #6

    Default

    Thread is stuck!!!
    Adam Martin
    BPG# 1358
    BCA# 39765
    1970 Buick Skylark Custom 455 Coupe
    www.antiqueautomotiveservice.com

    http://www.antiqueautomotiveservice.com/images/logo_top.gif

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Twin Cities, MN
    Posts
    6,384

    Exclamation Awesome!

    Thanks David,
    Theres nothing like comparison photos to help make sense of things!
    Dale

    Current Buicks...None. :-(
    Past Buicks. '66 Riv / '70 Rivs (2) / '90 Riv / '72 Skylark / '72 LeSabre / '72 Electra / '96 LeSabre / '92 Park Ave. / '96 Riviera.

    "The guy who invented the first wheel was an idiot. The guy who invented the other three, he was a genius.". – Sid Caesar

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    15,245

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by quicksabre
    I will go ahead and use the 3.42 gears so that I can make use of the posi, and run some really tall tires to tame it.
    Thank you VERY much for posting this info...you may well have saved me from more than one headache.

    By the way, if you ever get tired of the 3.42:1/posi I'd be more than glad to purchase the parts! It's precisely what I'm after for my '67 Wildcat.

    Thanks again,

    Devon

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    ct.
    Posts
    3,618

    Default

    The best question that hasn't been asked, will the ring gears fit the other type carriers??? Yes, they are all 9 3/8ths. Will older gears fit (up to '70) on '71-'75 carriers??? Yes, again, they are 9 3/8ths also. Can older gears be installed in newer ('71-'75) carriers??? Yes, with some minor modifications & using an older pinion seal. Some of the differences are ring gear bolts. Older are right hand threads, newer are left hand threads. Try swapping around gears only & not full carriers & more can & will be learned. 3.23 & down uses one carrier & 3.42 & up use another. The 3.23 carrier can be used with 3.42 gears with an approx. 1/4" spacer & longer ring gear bolts. Ed & I did this 3 years ago & proved to our satifaction it can be done. I believe he has finally done this on his '73??? Riv. GS by installing older 3.90's in his rear housing.
    Tom Telesco
    Classic and Muscle Automotive
    12 Cook St.
    Norwalk, CT 06853-1601
    Day Phone 203-324-6045 ET
    NailHead Mini-Starters '53-'66
    Adjustable Roller Tip Rocker Arms - All NailHeads
    Custom Forged Pistons
    Many parts to numerous to list
    "If I can't get it, you don't need it!"

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Bush Country
    Posts
    713

    Default

    Good info!!!

    The burning question, & one that wil require disassembling a couple posi carriers...
    Can 30 spline posi side gears & spiders be swapped from a high ratio '67-70 9 3/8 posi carrier into '71+ low ratio 9 3/8 posi carrier, so later carrier can be used in earlier rear???

    Just wondering, as for last decade have been able to build my own low & mid ratio posi P series 8 7/8 carriers out of later MP series carriers, doing similiar deal.


    Roger

  11. Default

    Tom, would the ring and pinion from a '65 3.23:1 work on a '65 3.08:1 posi carrier? I'm going to try it for my Riv. Thanks for the great information guys.
    Deceptively Proficient.

    Ted Nagel
    64 LeSabre Wagon
    65 Wildcat 4-speed
    65 Gran Sport 4-speed
    67 Wildcat
    68 GS 400
    69 GS Stage 1 4-speed
    70 GS Stage 1 4-speed

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    ct.
    Posts
    3,618

    Default

    Yes
    Tom Telesco
    Classic and Muscle Automotive
    12 Cook St.
    Norwalk, CT 06853-1601
    Day Phone 203-324-6045 ET
    NailHead Mini-Starters '53-'66
    Adjustable Roller Tip Rocker Arms - All NailHeads
    Custom Forged Pistons
    Many parts to numerous to list
    "If I can't get it, you don't need it!"

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    SW Ohio
    Posts
    400

    Default

    I'm glad to help with this as I can. Alot of good questions have been asked about this rear lately. It gave me an excuse to pull my 67 Riv out of the storage building where it has been for the last ten years to finally start working on it. oPh, I have looked into side gear exchanging between the 67-70 and 71-75 posis enough to see that you would have to change the spider gears also. The teeth look very different. What I don't know how to get around is that the posi clutch packs are totally different, including how they mesh with the backside of the side gears. The earlier one is Eaton with the four rounded tabs that rest in steel holders, while the later one uses the clutches with the two big square tabs that engage directly with the case.
    As for ring/pinion gears between the two eras, I still have never had an earlier and a later set pulled at the same time to sit side by side. I would think the ring gear bolt thread rotation could be gotten around, but I thought there was a question about the overall pinion shaft length.
    One additional thing that I just learned is that the 70 Riviera rearend has a different driveshaft flange than the 67. The 70 seems much more like the what the 71-75 uses. To my surprise, these are totally interchangeable. So I'm just using the 67 flange with the 3.42 gearset.
    I'm going to go ahead and see how I like how the car runs with 3.42 gears. If it does drive me crazy, I'll certainly try to sell it within the board here before resorting to anything like evilbay.
    It took me two days to pull all of this because the first day was spent getting the car into a position to work under it and get just the posi. Then I went back for the whole rearend the next day because the shock mounts are ripped off of mine and because the 3.42 gear/posi should fit perfectly back into the housing that they originally came in. But they have a few more Riv GS cars there, although they are all buried even worse than this one was.
    If they would just let me take the bobcat back there........ I could check all of these so much more quickly.
    David Powell
    76 LeSabre 2dr 455 12.54@107
    76 LeSabre 4dr ht 455 14.50@93
    73 Riviera 455
    83 Regal 455 11.70@116

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    ct.
    Posts
    3,618

    Default

    Ring & pinions cannot be changed amongst one another they are always a matched set.
    Older pinions are longer in length (up to '70) but can be used in '71-'75 (& '76??) housings. A small amount of machining is required along with an older pinion seal & an older driveshaft flange.
    Most all driveshaft flanges are interchangeable.
    Tom Telesco
    Classic and Muscle Automotive
    12 Cook St.
    Norwalk, CT 06853-1601
    Day Phone 203-324-6045 ET
    NailHead Mini-Starters '53-'66
    Adjustable Roller Tip Rocker Arms - All NailHeads
    Custom Forged Pistons
    Many parts to numerous to list
    "If I can't get it, you don't need it!"

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    SW Ohio
    Posts
    400

    Default

    Interesting, what must be machined?
    David Powell
    76 LeSabre 2dr 455 12.54@107
    76 LeSabre 4dr ht 455 14.50@93
    73 Riviera 455
    83 Regal 455 11.70@116

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    15,245

    Default 3.42's

    Quote Originally Posted by quicksabre
    I'm going to go ahead and see how I like how the car runs with 3.42 gears. If it does drive me crazy, I'll certainly try to sell it within the board here before resorting to anything like evilbay.
    Thanks for the info, David. If the 3.42 setup ends up being too steep for you, please keep me in mind.

    Devon

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Ladysmith, WI
    Posts
    255

    Default 72 Rear in 69 LeSabre?

    All right, let me get this straight. I test fit the complete rear end from a 72 Electra in the back of my 69 LeSabre, and it appeared to fit, although I didn't really complete the installation. Both cars had 2 upper and 2 lower control arms. So, if the 72 rear (which included a posi) would have fit in the 69 LeSabre, than I could have used a lower ratio gearset (up to 3.90:1?) from a late 60s 9-3/8" rear end? This very topic really bogged down my drag race LeSabre project which fizzled out several years ago now when the roof of my garage collapsed on the poor car due to snow load. Now the car is junked and the posi is gone (Zach's got it), but the question still keeps me up at night.
    BTail

    73 Riviera (current)
    69 LeSabre (some parts left)
    72 Electra (engine/trans left)

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Buffalo Gap, TX
    Posts
    3,492

    Default

    BTail,

    As I understand post #9 above, the R&P gears should swap, unless you run into a left- or right-hand thread issue.

    How confident are you that the '72 rear end housing would go into your '69? The early-and-late generation axle housing swaps are one of the still unanswered questions on these. It'd be really nice to know that the '70 mounting points were the only odd ones, that'd open up the search for a lot of folks.
    James BPG #1604
    Still own my first car: '71 LeSabre - the 2NABOT (formerly the World's 2nd Fastest 350-powered Big Buick) Now 455-powered.
    '62 Ranchero w/ '68 200 Six and Column-shift 3-speed. Cruuuuuise-mobile.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Ladysmith, WI
    Posts
    255

    Default

    Man, that was a while ago, and I didn't document what I did in any way. I believe I had the rear end attached to the frame via the four links, but I don't recall how the springs or shocks would have worked out. I'm not really sure how well the upper control arms attached to the axle, but I believe I had it all bolted up. I also don't recall which control arms I was using for this trial fit, those from the 72 Electra or those from the 69 LeSabre. I wasn't really considering using the Electra rear end due to lack of available low ratio gears, but threw it in there just for grins. It also had a flanged driveshaft connection versus the original LeSabre 10 bolt's standard u-joint connection, but I was planning on running the Electra driveshaft, trans, and engine anyway. Hopefully, somebody else reading this can positively confirm or deny how the 71 and up 9-3/8" rear end would fit in a late 60's non-Riv full size Buick (69 LeSabre in my case), because I can't really state positively how well it would work. Sorry. Is it getting smoky in here, or is it just me?

    Nick
    BTail

    73 Riviera (current)
    69 LeSabre (some parts left)
    72 Electra (engine/trans left)

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    North Norway/Cranfills Gap TX
    Posts
    448

    Thumbs up

    Hi
    My 76 Buick Electra is my first Buick ever, but for sure not the last one. I really love this car and I am really looking forward to get it back home to Norway.

    But over here I really could need a posi rear end.
    In this tread you are talking about “up to 70” and “71 to 75”.

    What happens in 76 was there a new rear end, totally different from other years?

    Per Arne
    Per Arne Sund, North Norway and Cranfills Gap Tx

  21. #21
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    I-95, Old exit #69 ;]
    Posts
    5,309

    Default

    that's a typo and should read '71-76'. check the other sticky rear end info thread for interchange information with the 8 1/2" ring gear pumpkin.

    you probably need to verify your rear end size as well. my 76 electra has an 8 7/8" in it. you can't get aftermarket ring and pinion sets for either the 9 3/8s or 8 7/8s.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    North Norway/Cranfills Gap TX
    Posts
    448

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by bobkmando
    that's a typo and should read '71-76'. check the other sticky rear end info thread for interchange information with the 8 1/2" ring gear pumpkin.

    you probably need to verify your rear end size as well. my 76 electra has an 8 7/8" in it. you can't get aftermarket ring and pinion sets for either the 9 3/8s or 8 7/8s.
    Hi
    What’s the easiest way to identify either it’s the 9 3/8s or 8 7/8s.

    thanks
    Per Arne Sund, North Norway and Cranfills Gap Tx

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Erie
    Posts
    265

    Default

    what can I do for my 70 wildcat? How do I get a posi and 3:42 gears?
    [SIGPIC]
    1970 Stage 1 silver with black top
    1970 GS455 Pure Stock Harvest Gold
    Best 60' 1.87 on Polyglass
    Best ET 12.29 on Polyglass
    Best MPH 113.86 on Polyglass[/FONT]Still more power to go....[SIGPIC][/FONT]

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    ct.
    Posts
    3,618

    Default

    Learn how identify one & then scour the yards or pay through the nose from e-bay.

    Tom T.
    Tom Telesco
    Classic and Muscle Automotive
    12 Cook St.
    Norwalk, CT 06853-1601
    Day Phone 203-324-6045 ET
    NailHead Mini-Starters '53-'66
    Adjustable Roller Tip Rocker Arms - All NailHeads
    Custom Forged Pistons
    Many parts to numerous to list
    "If I can't get it, you don't need it!"

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Northern NY (Thousand Islands Region)
    Posts
    811

    Default

    Chris:

    I agree with Tom T. I found mine in a yard and it took a LONG time. Finding parts for these cars is not as easy as finding parts for a Lark or GS. You just have to keep looking.

    Paul
    /
    1970 LeSabre 455 Sport Coupe
    Sloan Documented

    The Basics: 455 with John Osborne Q-Jet and Distributor, Stage-1 Cam, Crane XR-i Electonic Ignition, TH400 and a 12-Bolt Posi

    ****Non-A/C car, no power windows, locks or seats. Only options are power steering, power brakes and a map light. Truly, a special order car!****


    Since March of 1982, "Don't laugh - you might be surprised!"

    1970 Estate Wagon (Future Project)
    1999 Regal LS (Daily Driver)

    Paul
    BCA Member

 

 
Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Back to top