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  1. #101
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Mart,Texas
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    186

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    Glen & others, at present these pieces are for show and discussion of a bit of Buick back-room history, BUT there may be the possibility of the package becoming available sometime in the future. I was hoping someone out there may have some information concerning the number of X-heads cast. Rumor has it at ~6 pair. Anyone know? Again, thanks for the interest in these pieces of nostalgia!
    Jay Vanous
    With every lesson comes the cost of tuition.

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    NJ for now
    Posts
    386

    Default

    Great pics, this is what I was looking to see.
    Keep them coming.
    Regards Dennis
    1971 Buick GS Stage 1 warmed thru N-25's https://vimeo.com/183517579?utm_sour...campaign=28749
    2011 Buick Regal Turbo T
    2004 Buick Regal GS SC
    1998 GMC CrewCab 4X4 Longbed (Buick don't make Trucks)
    Former Buicks
    1961 Buick Electra 2DR (Hurricane Irene Flood victim)
    1965 Skylark Gran Sport (first car)
    1965 Riviera 401
    1968 GS400, TH400
    1986 T-Type Regal Bill Blass edition
    1972 Buick Sportwagon

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Helena, MT
    Posts
    208

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    Hi Jay--

    I just picked up my set of Kustom headers today, and boy am I excited! They will be a great fit with the Stage 2 iron heads I just bought. Thanks for the info about the number cast to make sure they are Kustoms. I feel real fortunate in that the headers have never been welded on, although they do have a few minor dents.

    I have a letter from Dennis Manor, and in it he says Buick made just about as many vertical boss heads as they did the regular stage 2 iron heads (75 sets vs 100 set of the regular ones). However, the earlier heads were distributed thru the back room, and I suspect fewer sets survived.

    This thread is great. I still believe some sort of registry should be put together for this stuff, but if we just keep this thread alive, maybe it will be the registry.

    I've talked via email with you before Jay about your Stage 2 stuff. If you decide to sell it, would you put me in line as being interested?

    Thanks,

    Dan

    ps: I'm not in Helena right now so I can't refer directly to Dennis Manor's letter, but I believe in it he says that most racers made their own headers when using the vertical boss heads. I'll check when I get back home next week.
    Last edited by wagonboss; 08-22-2006 at 08:29 AM. Reason: add information
    3.8 L per Flush

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Helena, MT
    Posts
    208

    Default

    A question for Guy Parquette and Jay (or anybody else that might know, like Gary Paine)--

    I notice that the close-up picture of Jay's Kustom header flange shows that it is sawed thru next to the 2399 number. I have pictures of another set that shows the same thing. On my set (passenger side), the flange is sawed about half way top to bottom in the same location as Jay's (next to the 2399 number), but the cut was never completed so the flange is still continuous. There is a similar partial cut on the firewall side of the center two tubes. If these two cuts were completed, the center two tubes would be installed as a unit, and the front and rear tube would be installed seperately. On the driver side, the partial cut is made ONLY on the firewall side of the center two tubes, like this side was meant to be installed in two pieces.

    Also, I wonder if the headers were originally sent with the flange seperate from the header tubes, to be assembled to the headers tubes on site. Mine have a single spot weld at each tube top to the flange.

    Guy, are the flanges on your two sets like Jay's, or like mine?

    Dan
    Last edited by wagonboss; 08-22-2006 at 09:10 AM. Reason: typo
    3.8 L per Flush

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Helena, MT
    Posts
    208

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    An open question:

    The TA cast iron set that has never been machined (after which all their aluminum Stage 2 heads are based) has an "a" after the casting number, as I recall. My set does not have the "a" following the casting number, but rather has an "f" cast just below the casting number. Did Buick go thru "a" thru "f" casting iterations when then tried casting these heads on a production basis? For others who own these heads, what letter is cast into your heads after or below the common casting number?

    Thanks,

    Dan
    Last edited by wagonboss; 08-22-2006 at 09:13 AM. Reason: typo
    3.8 L per Flush

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Mosinee Wi.
    Posts
    2,617

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    I'll have to check my heads on the letter deal...I do know both sets that I had, (one set is sold, gone) had the same #'s and letters. Also both sets, And I would have to beleave all the sets made started with that letter "X".

    My header flanges are also cut apart, sloppy job at best. And also a sloppy job at one of the slip joints.
    Last edited by Guy Parquette; 08-22-2006 at 04:58 PM.
    70 GSX clone race car 10.58@126
    70 stage 2 (real) KenneBell test car that Pop raced.
    70 Skylark 12,400 miles rust free
    70 stage 1 will be restored

  7. #107
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    chardon,ohio
    Posts
    5,468

    Default stage2

    My Stage2's have an X before the # and a F at the bottom.
    Also,the Kustom headers on Scat had the flanges already cut and the tubes welded when I got them many years ago.the slip fit tubes are a little sloppy but functional,after all, these were made for race cars.
    gary
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by greatscat; 08-23-2006 at 07:05 AM.
    gary
    Iron Stage 2
    GSCA #51
    BPG #1135
    To grow old is mandatory,
    To grow up is optional.
    "CARPE DIEM"

    69 GS400 4 speed documented Stage2,original owner,18k miles
    68 GS400 Stage2 race car "Great Scat" 9.94
    69 GS400 4 speed convertible
    70 Q-Q GSX ( actually Sandy's) pure stock trim,12.78 best et
    70 Race car, "Thumper"resurrected. 9.80
    71 GS 455 10 second street car, triple black
    71 GS 455 11 second grocery getter

  8. #108
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Mart,Texas
    Posts
    186

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    I am curious, were all the prototype heads cast as right hand heads with a provision for the alterator bracket only? The ones I have are this way with the heads modified (nickel welded, drilled and tapped) after they were cast for the power steering bracket (see previously posted picture). How are everyone else's cast? Are the production castings interchangeable right to left? Also, wouldn't casting dates create a timeline of changes/improvements during development? Any thoughts? I need to go back and really examine these things more closely.
    Jay Vanous
    With every lesson comes the cost of tuition.

  9. #109
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    Nov 2003
    Location
    Mart,Texas
    Posts
    186

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    Gary, looking at the pic of your head, it appears to have the provision for 400-430 rocker shaft pressure oiling?
    Jay Vanous
    With every lesson comes the cost of tuition.

  10. #110
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Mosinee Wi.
    Posts
    2,617

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Martian
    Gary, looking at the pic of your head, it appears to have the provision for 400-430 rocker shaft pressure oiling?
    Yes, all the production stg2 heads had the rocker shaft oiling.

    As far as the alt bracket, my four heads were made like the normal 455 heads.

    Great info Jay!
    70 GSX clone race car 10.58@126
    70 stage 2 (real) KenneBell test car that Pop raced.
    70 Skylark 12,400 miles rust free
    70 stage 1 will be restored

  11. #111
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Mosinee Wi.
    Posts
    2,617

    Default More Info

    Just received some copies of inter departmental letters from "the day", from Dennis Manner about stg2 parts, testing, actual part numbers, how to set up a car for drag racing, letter of intent or proposal for a factory production stg II option, what the car would consist of, ect...and the letter that shot it down .
    Also an inter dept letter about car number 4085 and what to do with it.

    And also a letter from Jim Bell to Dennis stating how happy he was with the "new heads" and that the Reynolds KB car just turned a 10.89 @126.85 MPH...this was back in 1970!

    And some other great info.
    Like the shipping of stgII parts and compensations for racing and testing to Reynolds Buick for the stgII car...ect

    Oh, And it did say in the specs about the stgII head that it was designed with the "through the head oiling so the cutomer could use it with the earlier 400", 430" engines, or early rockers.

    I have to openly thank Dennis for all of this great info!!
    Guy
    Last edited by Guy Parquette; 08-24-2006 at 09:34 AM.
    70 GSX clone race car 10.58@126
    70 stage 2 (real) KenneBell test car that Pop raced.
    70 Skylark 12,400 miles rust free
    70 stage 1 will be restored

  12. #112
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    near Waco Texas
    Posts
    475

    Default

    Wow!!! Great information guys! I'll put this to the top to keep the great info. coming.
    David Baker



    1970 GS Stage1 4-speed
    One of only 664

  13. #113
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Helena, MT
    Posts
    208

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Martian
    I am curious, were all the prototype heads cast as right hand heads with a provision for the alterator bracket only? The ones I have are this way with the heads modified (nickel welded, drilled and tapped) after they were cast for the power steering bracket (see previously posted picture). How are everyone else's cast? Are the production castings interchangeable right to left? Also, wouldn't casting dates create a timeline of changes/improvements during development? Any thoughts? I need to go back and really examine these things more closely.

    Jay and Gary and Guy---

    Jay, the other set of prototypes I am familiar with are just like yours. I do have pictures at home. Gary, my Stage 2 heads are just like yours. Guy, I'd love to read the info you have sometime. Any chance?

    Further info----

    I just reviewed my letter from Dennis M., and it does not say 75 sets like I thought I remembered. It does say the vertical boss was used to relieve gas from the casting process. The letter does say 100 sets for the "production" stage 2 heads.

    I've attached a few pictures of my Kustom headers without the flange cut showing the number and slip joints that haven't been welded. The rust is just surface rust.

    Dan

    Dan
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by wagonboss; 09-01-2006 at 09:39 PM.
    3.8 L per Flush

  14. #114
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Mosinee Wi.
    Posts
    2,617

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wagonboss
    Jay and Gary and Guy---

    Jay, the other set of prototypes I am familiar with are just like yours. I do have pictures at home. Gary, my Stage 2 heads are just like yours. Guy, I'd love to read the info you have sometime. Any chance?

    Further info----

    I just reviewed my letter from Dennis M., and it does not say 75 sets like I thought I remembered. It does say the vertical boss was used to relieve gas from the casting process. The letter does say 100 sets for the "production" stage 2 heads.

    I've attached a few pictures of my Kustom headers without the flange cut showing the number and slip joints that haven't been welded. The rust is just surface rust.

    Dan

    Dan
    Dan-
    On that first pic of the Kustom header, on the far back lower slip joint it looks like the outer slip tube was added or welded?
    Mine is made that way on just the one and thought it was just a repair.
    Am I seeing that on yours also?
    Thanks,
    Guy
    70 GSX clone race car 10.58@126
    70 stage 2 (real) KenneBell test car that Pop raced.
    70 Skylark 12,400 miles rust free
    70 stage 1 will be restored

  15. #115
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Edinboro, Pa
    Posts
    1,258

    Default

    I am putting the iron Stage 2 engine back in my red car in the next few weeks and I am curious as to how the 69 rocker shafts were oiled. It seems to me that the 455 head gasket had the hole blocked from the block that sends the oil up to the rocker shaft. I ordered 5/16 adj pushrods ( hollow, of course ) to oil the engine up through the pushrods to the 69 rockers from 455 lifters. I have done this for years and it appears that they get enough oil this way. Are any of you oiling them the old fashioned way?

  16. #116
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Helena, MT
    Posts
    208

    Default

    Guy--

    Are you talking about the outboard slip joint, or the inboard one? From the look of these headers, they look all factory with no welds, replacement slip joints or added slip joints.

    Dan
    3.8 L per Flush

  17. #117
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    long island n.y.
    Posts
    579

    Default stage 2 cam

    does anybody have the complete cam specs on that stage 2 cam?also what were those pistons rated at?11 to 1?

  18. #118
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    chardon,ohio
    Posts
    5,468

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by collector
    I am putting the iron Stage 2 engine back in my red car in the next few weeks and I am curious as to how the 69 rocker shafts were oiled. It seems to me that the 455 head gasket had the hole blocked from the block that sends the oil up to the rocker shaft. I ordered 5/16 adj pushrods ( hollow, of course ) to oil the engine up through the pushrods to the 69 rockers from 455 lifters. I have done this for years and it appears that they get enough oil this way. Are any of you oiling them the old fashioned way?
    John
    Thats the best way to oil the 69 rockers ,you'll get too much oil to the top if you go the old way.
    gary
    gary
    Iron Stage 2
    GSCA #51
    BPG #1135
    To grow old is mandatory,
    To grow up is optional.
    "CARPE DIEM"

    69 GS400 4 speed documented Stage2,original owner,18k miles
    68 GS400 Stage2 race car "Great Scat" 9.94
    69 GS400 4 speed convertible
    70 Q-Q GSX ( actually Sandy's) pure stock trim,12.78 best et
    70 Race car, "Thumper"resurrected. 9.80
    71 GS 455 10 second street car, triple black
    71 GS 455 11 second grocery getter

  19. #119
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    chardon,ohio
    Posts
    5,468

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Parquette
    Dan-
    On that first pic of the Kustom header, on the far back lower slip joint it looks like the outer slip tube was added or welded?
    Mine is made that way on just the one and thought it was just a repair.
    Am I seeing that on yours also?
    Thanks,
    Guy
    Guy
    My original Customs that are on Scat are the same way.
    gary
    gary
    Iron Stage 2
    GSCA #51
    BPG #1135
    To grow old is mandatory,
    To grow up is optional.
    "CARPE DIEM"

    69 GS400 4 speed documented Stage2,original owner,18k miles
    68 GS400 Stage2 race car "Great Scat" 9.94
    69 GS400 4 speed convertible
    70 Q-Q GSX ( actually Sandy's) pure stock trim,12.78 best et
    70 Race car, "Thumper"resurrected. 9.80
    71 GS 455 10 second street car, triple black
    71 GS 455 11 second grocery getter

  20. #120
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    15,266

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by collector
    I am putting the iron Stage 2 engine back in my red car in the next few weeks and I am curious as to how the 69 rocker shafts were oiled. It seems to me that the 455 head gasket had the hole blocked from the block that sends the oil up to the rocker shaft. I ordered 5/16 adj pushrods ( hollow, of course ) to oil the engine up through the pushrods to the 69 rockers from 455 lifters. I have done this for years and it appears that they get enough oil this way. Are any of you oiling them the old fashioned way?
    I oil my 462 with the old method (for now) with a small mod to the right side shaft since the block's not drilled:



    When I can it's coming apart for roller rockers & hollow pushrods.

    Devon
    Fuel & Brake Systems Engineer
    "I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong." - Feynman
    "Good data is precious. The problem I have is when some damned fool fails to use it properly." - Slingerland

  21. #121
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Edinboro, Pa
    Posts
    1,258

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by greatscat
    John
    Thats the best way to oil the 69 rockers ,you'll get too much oil to the top if you go the old way.
    gary
    Thanks, Gary. I figured as much but when you haven't done this for a while you tend to forget........it's gonna be fun putting that engine in the ole original red car that I've had for 26 years now! Lugging the car to my old shop in Pa next week.....

  22. #122
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    chardon,ohio
    Posts
    5,468

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by collector
    Thanks, Gary. I figured as much but when you haven't done this for a while you tend to forget........it's gonna be fun putting that engine in the ole original red car that I've had for 26 years now! Lugging the car to my old shop in Pa next week.....
    John,since the heads are off don't forget to plug the oiling hole in the block,sometimes oil will seep past the gasket.
    gary
    gary
    Iron Stage 2
    GSCA #51
    BPG #1135
    To grow old is mandatory,
    To grow up is optional.
    "CARPE DIEM"

    69 GS400 4 speed documented Stage2,original owner,18k miles
    68 GS400 Stage2 race car "Great Scat" 9.94
    69 GS400 4 speed convertible
    70 Q-Q GSX ( actually Sandy's) pure stock trim,12.78 best et
    70 Race car, "Thumper"resurrected. 9.80
    71 GS 455 10 second street car, triple black
    71 GS 455 11 second grocery getter

  23. #123
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Edinboro, Pa
    Posts
    1,258

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by greatscat
    John,since the heads are off don't forget to plug the oiling hole in the block,sometimes oil will seep past the gasket.
    gary
    OK, will do. Can't remember if that oil hole is on both sides. I know it is on the left side front for sure....

  24. #124
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Mosinee Wi.
    Posts
    2,617

    Default

    Yep, just on the left front side
    70 GSX clone race car 10.58@126
    70 stage 2 (real) KenneBell test car that Pop raced.
    70 Skylark 12,400 miles rust free
    70 stage 1 will be restored

  25. #125
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Haines City,FL
    Posts
    120

    Default

    John-I can't wait to see the old red car running with my old heads. Have a safe trip.I ran the 69 rocker arms on them years ago,but they went on another engine years ago. They should be fine.Let us know how well it runs. Mike Nussell

 

 
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