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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Pine City, MN
    Posts
    9,608

    Default VINTAGE and CLASSIC CAR Rating Guide

    Guys,

    Often times folks call me up at the shop here, and inquire as to a value on such and such a car they are looking to buy, and I typically ask what condition it is in, to help me determine what I may feel it is worth. Most often, the person on the other end of the phone is not familiar with the rating scales that are generally accepted, which complicates my ability to give them good information.

    The question came up in conversation today with my guys in the shop here, as we sat in my office having lunch, and I located this on the internet. It lists the definitions of a condition 1-6 vehicle, and I thought that it would be worth posting as a sticky, as it may help those of you who are buying and selling your cars, to properly identify the vehicle in question.

    VINTAGE and CLASSIC CAR
    CONDITION RATING GUIDE

    RATING................. DESCRIPTION


    1 EXCELLENT/SHOW CAR A masterpiece, this perfect original car is in the same condition it was in when delivered new or better; or a professionally-restored car that has been restored to new or better than new condition. This car is not driven, and is transported to shows in an enclosed trailer. Normally stored in a secured, temperature and humidity controlled environment when not being shown, this car would be expected to come within a point or two of a perfect score when judged by professionals using current criteria.


    2 FINE An original car with very low miles that has been meticulously maintained since new; or an older professional restoration that has seen very limited use since restoration. Very close inspection by an expert may detect almost insignificant flaws or wear, but to most enthusiasts the car would look perfect. This car would come within several points of a perfect score when judged, and would receive the top award at a show unless a true Number 1 car were also being judged.


    3 VERY GOOD A well-maintained original car that has been driven limited miles over the years; is completely operable with all equipment working as designed, and at first glance may look perfect; or an older restoration that has been driven limited miles since the restoration was completed, and is showing minor wear and tear from being on display at car shows. Closer inspection may reveal minor wear on parts susceptible to showing wear, such as brake and gas pedals, and some thinning of paint and chrome finishes may also be noticed.


    4 GOOD Major components function properly, and the vehicle is completely safe to drive but may need minor repairs to mechanical systems. No parts are missing, but this car has been driven on a regular basis and may need a paint job and a few trim pieces rechromed or replaced. Amateur restorations usually fall into this category, as do very old professional restorations that have deteriorated due to use and exposure to the elements.


    5 RESTORABLE May or may not be running; everything on the car needs to be restored; may be missing minor parts, but the major components are there. Any body damage due to collision or rust should be minor; some surface rust may appear, but no holes should be present. The car is structurally sound, but needs cosmetic updating to paint, upholstery and top material, as well as repairs to various mechanical components.


    6 PARTS CAR Probably not running well, if at all; missing some major as well as minor parts; may have serious body damage due to wreck or rust through. Soft trim and rubber parts are most likely completely ruined from weathering and exposure. This vehicle needs many parts and has deteriorated to the point of not being a good candidate for restoration.
    Owner/operator

    Tri-Shield Performance
    Jim Weise
    Founder/Owner
    V-8 Buick.com
    320-629-8999

    Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
    Abraham Lincoln
    16th president of US (1809 - 1865)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Taunton, MA
    Posts
    3,427

    Default

    JW,

    Thanks for the guide!

    I think my car is a 5 and 1/2
    Brett Slater

    "Wouldn't you really rather drive a Buick?"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Englewood, Ohio
    Posts
    1,248

    Default

    JW,
    Thanks for posting the guide.
    Such guidelines, when describing "restored" cars (especially # 2 cars) the quality of the parts used is not mentioned. ".......an expert may detect almost insignificant flaws or wear, but to most enthusiasts the car would look perfect."
    Is there any conflict between the use of NOS or pristene original parts vs aftermarket repros that "look" correct when classifying a #1 or #2 car?
    Thanks
    Mark

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Pawleys Island, SC
    Posts
    2,781

    Default

    Just so people know, there's a similar document in the back of the Year One catalog.

    Scratch that.... that was a 5 year old catalog.
    Andy, 1970 Skylark Custom

    Support your country
    Support your neighbors
    Support yourself
    Buy American

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    3,548

    Default

    My car almost is maybe a 5 or a very close 6, w/ the exception that it is mechanically sound and runs great.(or at least will once I get my 350 in!)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Lawrenceburg TN
    Posts
    1,239

    Default

    This is also available in the front of the antique car price guide available on most good magazine stands at bookstores. Most cars seen at local shows fall into the #3 category.
    Eddie Culp
    70 GSX 455 Stg. 1 4sp. (clone)
    71 GSX 350 auto (clone)
    66 skylark 340 4bbl. (sold )
    72 skylark (in cloning process)
    67 Evinrude Sportsman 225 odd-fire v6
    95 Riviera SC
    GSCA #1729

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Milwaukee WI
    Posts
    4,591

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Slater
    JW,

    Thanks for the guide!

    I think my car is a 5 and 1/2
    Brett, I hear ya on the 5.5
    1970 Skylark Custom convertible
    Megasqurt EFI
    My Build in the Garage
    2004 Chevrolet Malibu Maxx
    Looking for cheap and long '77 Ford F150 bed

    Nate

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Thousand Oaks, CA.
    Posts
    328

    Unhappy 1 + 1 = 1 ???

    My "parts" car is a 5, and the car I hope to restore is a 7.
    Dave
    1965 Skylark - Bought new and driven by my great-grandfather in 1965. Put back on the road by me and my boys in 2015. After 50 years and through 5 generations, you'd think we'd have solved that rust problem by now.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Pine City, MN
    Posts
    9,608

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by custom
    JW,
    Thanks for posting the guide.
    Such guidelines, when describing "restored" cars (especially # 2 cars) the quality of the parts used is not mentioned. ".......an expert may detect almost insignificant flaws or wear, but to most enthusiasts the car would look perfect."
    Is there any conflict between the use of NOS or pristene original parts vs aftermarket repros that "look" correct when classifying a #1 or #2 car?
    Thanks
    While I can only offer my opinon on this;

    I would venture to say that if the reproduction part is an exact duplicate to the orginal, missing only say date codes, then I would say this would not be a reason to not classify it at the top of the scale, depending on the rest of the vehicle of course.

    Duane would be a better guy to pose that question to, as he writes most of the rules for the judging for current clubs, based on the BCA stuff I beleive. While there has been some disscussion concerning a upper echelon classification for the judging at Buick events, that would incorportate date code checks, I am not sure that this classification ever went beyond the discussion state.

    n JW
    Owner/operator

    Tri-Shield Performance
    Jim Weise
    Founder/Owner
    V-8 Buick.com
    320-629-8999

    Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
    Abraham Lincoln
    16th president of US (1809 - 1865)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    The ATX
    Posts
    6,087

    Default

    I guess mine would be a 4. Well, if my front wheels were as shiny as my back wheels it would.

    Thanks Jim

    Frank


    Frank Brooks, Austin, TX USA

    Empty garage again...
    WOT Charter Member
    2016 GMC HD2500 Denali 4WD CC Duramax/Allison 1000(DD)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Sacramento CA area
    Posts
    3,656

    Default

    I've had some brand new GM cars that were probably a "4" or "5."
    BadBrad
    '70 GS455 - Power Brute Super T10 4spd
    ex. '70 GSX
    New Project: 2000 Mercury Grand Marquis - for the kids to drive.
    New Muscle: 2013 Ford Taurus SHO - Twin Turbo Terror

    Spare 455 on the stand, just in case!


    Slideshow of BadBrad's Car: http://s517.photobucket.com/albums/u...view=slideshow

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    Posts
    1,223

    Default

    Wow... this is a pretty harsh guide. My car's a complete 6... but I see worse cars being restored on here everyday. Hmm...

    ~Mike
    '66 Skylark 340-4

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    4,184

    Default

    OK, lets do this. Looking at my site and the pictures of my 72 ragtop, how would you rate it Jim?? Go ahead, be nasty!!

    later
    Tim
    BPG Member #1023 <<--guess this is done with??
    71 GS Stage 1 hardtop
    72 GS 350 ragtop
    http://www.fixjet.ca

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Ottawa-Stittsville, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    4,383

    Default Classic / Vintage Rating

    This rating scheme is similar to one used by former director Ray Knott for some of the early ROA meets. It is also very similar to the guide published in Standard Catalogue of Buick. Gives everyone a good idea how to evaluate the condition of their car, or a potential car - also provides a great way to stick a pin in someones balloon when the asking price of a car is over inflated.
    Thanks for sharing Jim, excellent reference material !
    Randy Hunter / ROA Charter Member #155 - '68 Buick Riviera GS (clone) '"The JEWAL"
    ...previous Buicks: '68 LeSabre 400 2dr hdtp,'68 Wildcat 2dr hdtps (2), '68 Riviera (2 parts cars),'80 LeSabre V6 4 dr (...long gone slug)
    Check out the ROA here: www.rivowners.org ,and my '68 Riviera here: http://www.v8buick.com/garage_vehicl...w_vehicle&id=1

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    4,184

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivman
    also provides a great way to stick a pin in someones balloon when the asking price of a car is over inflated.
    The problem always has been, and still is, everyone sees things though different eyes. One mans showcar is another mans driver. One mans #1 is another mans #3. That is the problem, and you can't neccesarily judge it by factory paint, etc. One guy who likes original would hate modified cars even though they may be improved and updated and are worth more to some. to him its worthless.

    Don't stick pins, people can ask whatever they want for whatever they are selling. If you aren't happy with the price, then don't buy it. IMHO of course.

    Later
    Tim
    BPG Member #1023 <<--guess this is done with??
    71 GS Stage 1 hardtop
    72 GS 350 ragtop
    http://www.fixjet.ca

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    994

    Exclamation yep

    I would say why the heck would I want a # 1 or #2? If I'd be so scared to drive it? I would only want one so I could sell it and get 3 cars I could drive, plus gas money to boot! But to each his own.
    -Jason
    __________________________
    She ain't heavy, she's my Buick.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Newberry, Fl
    Posts
    10

    Default Rating cars with upgrade

    So, if one were to change the brakes from front drum to front disc without hindering the overall look of the car the rating of the car could be no higher than a 3 no matter the quality of the rest of the car? Am I understanding the this rating correctly?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Windsor Ontario
    Posts
    8,400

    Default

    i have been told that in some major shows, there is no point deduction for upgrading the brakes as this has become a safety matter.
    Gerry
    1972 GS 350 ht #s
    2015 Chev Colorado Z71
    2015 Chevy Cruze

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Windsor Ontario
    Posts
    8,400

    Default

    i would say that as long as the carb and the intake have the correct part#s for the model year, u should be okay.
    Gerry
    1972 GS 350 ht #s
    2015 Chev Colorado Z71
    2015 Chevy Cruze

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Bethesda, MD
    Posts
    141

    Default Re: VINTAGE and CLASSIC CAR Rating Guide

    Hi Mark,

    I'd just like to say that the car pictured in your avatar looks beautiful. I love the color combination. What year is it? I'm not expert enough to tell. Thanks.

    Brian

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    PGH,PA, USA
    Posts
    4,931

    Default Re: VINTAGE and CLASSIC CAR Rating Guide

    I purchased a book that lists every car from the 40s to the mid 70s that decodes the vins, lists cars orginal price, shipping weights and other info...and it also has a price/rating guide like above butoffcource with a prices..

    Title of the book
    Standard Catalog Of American cars 1946-1975 4th edition
    by John Gunnell
    Mike aka BiZnO
    72 twinturbo Skylark

    Buick 350 Inspirational members to me..
    TuBBeD for his 551+ N/A build
    BillMah52 First to take a 350 where no man has gone before
    Justa350 First to hang a pair of turbos and cause Kaos
    GSJohnny First to max out the bore at .090 and his .075 and have engines that actually breath well N/A!
    Bobb Makley First well known to Stroke a 350
    Ken Betts, Hopefully the guy to pull-off 350 AL heads :-D

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Wayzata, MN
    Posts
    50

    Default Re: VINTAGE and CLASSIC CAR Rating Guide

    Jim- long time no see.Are you rebuilding my original motor yet?? Give me a call or email me. Got to get things moving,hey its been what? 4 years??
    Car running strong.

    GB

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Gillespie, IL
    Posts
    518

    Default Re: VINTAGE and CLASSIC CAR Rating Guide

    I think mine is a fair #3. Almost a 15 year old restoration, and just showing the normal wear. But there are somethings on the car that are still original like the interior. Haven't touched it, although it is showing some wear now. But everything looks correct on the car now, except the radiator hose, and am preparing to change it soon. I agree, the majority of the cars you see at your local shows are mostly #3's, and depending on the show maybe some #2's and rarely a #1. But then also, like what was said in another thread on this post, everyone sees thing differently, like around here most of the local clubs just go by what they know, or like and those win, luckily I have done rather well(knock on wood), but to go to good shows you have to drive a distance.
    Jerry Reid
    Gillespie, IL
    1968 Skylark Custom convertible
    jj_reid5@live.com

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    1,786

    Default Re: VINTAGE and CLASSIC CAR Rating Guide

    Thanks for the guide, i rate my brothers car (the wildcat) a solid 3, should be between if not completely a 2 by finish (do they ever really finish? )


    Quote Originally Posted by Boscoe View Post
    Hi Mark,

    I'd just like to say that the car pictured in your avatar looks beautiful. I love the color combination. What year is it? I'm not expert enough to tell. Thanks.

    Brian
    Im no expert either, but im going to go on a whim here, i think its a 72 GS350, numbers matching of course

    Sorry, couldnt help it.

    Its in his signature
    Steven

    1969 Buick Wildcat Custom 430-4

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: VINTAGE and CLASSIC CAR Rating Guide

    my 77 2dr skylark, 403 olds is a 4, my parts car(76 nova 4 dr) is a 3. Sad is'nt it?

 

 
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