GM is in trouble

[pglade]

Actually, from what I have read, their pension plan is in pretty good shape...right now it is fully funded. The "killer" right now is their healthcare costs---this is going to change, Ch 11 or not. It sounds kind of bad, but time helps them on the pension side as after 2009 or 2010 the number of pensioners starts to shrink.

[limemist]

Originally Posted by pglade

How can you be suprised??? I doubt it is cyclical and the perfect evidence is the fact that they have been losing market share for years---that is not cyclical

Wrong. GM had gained a lot market share up to almost 30% a few years ago and Ford was floundering at the time. The big three have been trading market share 'ups and downs' for years. The General will be back in a big way before you know it. The last thing GM needs to do is emulate a Nissan product.

[BlueSky]

Another little known piece of GM news is the sale of their locomotive division, EMD a few months ago. At one time this would have been unimaginable. EMD dominated the locomotive market in North America from the 40's until the early 80's when GE surpassed them in sales (and the two exchanged places in quality as well) EMD locomotives built during the decade of the '70s are considered some of the best ever-- reliable, low maintanence, loved by crews. Most are still in service. Then they decided to mess with success and make wholesale changes in the '80's and reliability sufferred. The major carriers turned to GE and some haven't looked back.
It is historically accepted that EMD killed the steam engine with their fine products and was one of the 'behind the scenes' bellweather GM divisions. Not anymore.

As far as cars and trucks are concerned, many here are correct, I believe it starts with design and marketing. Many companies put out the occasional lemon (monday or friday cars, according to my Father and his ex- problem child '98 Blazer) Its the big picture that sells cars-- Look at the GTO--- done on the cheap with an existing platform from another continent, slap on a legendary emblem and expect it to sell like hotcakes even though it looks like a ricer??? Bad idea, seems kinda desperate.

[pglade]

Originally Posted by limemist

Wrong. GM had gained a lot market share up to almost 30% a few years ago and Ford was floundering at the time. The big three have been trading market share 'ups and downs' for years

"Had" is the operative word----they are losing market share plain and simple....let's see...Toyota continues to gain DOMESTIC market share---whose hide do you think that is coming out of(all of the big 3's) GM's domestic market share has been shrinking NOT GROWING for years. Facts is facts. Sure, they can trade licks with Ford and Chrysler from year-to-year and quarter-to-quarter but the fact is their share of the total US car sales is SHRINKING.

GM once had 50% of the domestic market (30 years ago or so) they now have about half that......30 years is not "cyclical"...Toyo, etc aren't going away...the only thing going away is GM's share.

[beatlebuick]

How many people earning under $15.00 an hour can afford a vehicle being made by people earning over $27.00 an hour ? And what about GM paying one , yes I said ONE, CEO $19,000,000.00 in 2003 and $17,000,000.00 in 2002 ? Why are they loosing money? Beats me.

[pglade]

Originally Posted by beatlebuick

How many people earning under $15.00 an hour can afford a vehicle being made by people earning over $27.00 an hour ?

Easy---ever heard of GMAC?

Also---they still aren't losing money (yet)---they just cut their estimates but they are still in the black.

and.....just to add fuel to the fire...apparently there is now a massive glut of UNSOLD new cars in China with prices being CUT 27%!!!!----wait til those guys start loading this cheap crap onto the boats and selling it here. All the talk you hear of China growing----well,yes but 50 cents/hour doesn't make for a whole lot of new car buyers.

[buickman70]

My last 2 GMs have not been great not even very good. Maybe I'm the only one with bad GM luck but I doubt it.
'99 Silverado Z-71, bad 4wd switch, 2 bad driveshaft yokes (2nd was "new upgraded version", sticking throttle body, 3rd door won't latch under 10 degrees, leaking front pinion seal, broken exhaust manifold bolts, bad seat slides (ever try to drive with the seat sliding back and forth with every stop or go), half the radio illumination dead, bad ABS motor. All this on a $31000 truck within 95000 miles, that has never been offroad or abused.

'98 Pontiac Transport Montana, 83000 miles, leaking intake gasket (dealer wanted $900 to repair), CV boots shot both sides, 1 headlight lens fell off the other had 1/2" water in it, howling l/s front wheel bearing, bad rear air shocks, headliner starting to sag, However I do love the mpg it gets.

There is so much competition out there for the few people that can afford new cars that you had better have fresh styling with either great perceved quality or a great warranty. I can relate to this since I after 11 years I am laid off from a Japanese transplant company and looking at a new career.

[MBTex]

You are not the only one my LAST GM was a total piece of junk. It will take alot to get me to buy another one again.

[67Wildcat2post]

I like the Impala, the Escalade, and the trucks. Everything else is just boring.

As far as Dodge, they tarnished the Charger name by making it a 4-door and making a V6 available.

[455regal]

In my opinion Gm hasen't built a good vehicle since 1987. They don't listen I want a full frame rear wheel drive car with a v-8 and steel bumpers. They build so much " planned maintance " into there cars and trucks ( all of the big 3 do) eg. no grease fittings on ball joints or how about expencive rear disc brakes on a pick-up truck?????( ok on a ferrrari but not a truck!!) or even my beloved 86 regal when I come to think of it, the rear backing plates are paper thin? Gm has become good at making cars no one can afford!!!!! Here in Canada $60,000 plus for a pick-up truck??? or Camaro's and Firebirds when they 1st came out were for the " youth market" and didn't cost an arm and a leg? at the end they were over $45,00 here???? Give me a break!!!! and they wonder why people didn't buy them? I love the look of the new SSR truck but I'm not Donald Trump!!!! They got greedy!!!! I mean a cadilac pick up truck????? And front wheel drive!! Thats another topic!! They get a little fender bender and they are a write off, have you ever wondered why our insurance rates are so much!!!! They light weight every thing in the name of fuel economy or safety?? and they fold up like paper!!! Total junk!!! Someone told me why don't you get rid of your 93 caprice its a gas hog. Well my butt and my family are worth whatever the arabs charge for gas!!!! not to mention that my family has a much better chance of surviving a wreck!!!! A guy at work was saying how safe his new PT Cruizer was I told him ok put your kids in the back seat of that and I'll run into the back of you with my gas hog!!! People just don't think!!!!! I work at a stock car track and I see every week how real cars fold up never mind the crap detroit is putting out!!
Make affordable cars ,make them cheap to fix ,and build them to last!!! or piss off and I'll build my own!!! I won't buy crap!!!!
Brad
( whew !! Now I feel better!!!!! If only " they " were listening!!!)
Brad

[Legendary]

I am not saying I know all that much about GM apart from what I can read.

I do know this, I am basically a simple person when it comes to buying cars. If the last brand X was good to me I will probably buy another.

In 1979 my Dad bought a New Ford truck and over the next 5 years my father, brother and I put 3 transmissions in it. We did it ourselves because we didn't have the $$ to pay to have it done.

I have never bought a Ford since, not because Ford hasn't made anything good, but because the memory of lying underneath that POS in the dead of winter freezing my "extremeties" off has never faded.

I bought 5 new Chrysler products in a row until a Stratus needed a new head gasket at 57K miles and the dealership told me I, "did well" making it that long.

BTW the same applies to good experiences. My dad also had 3 Buick Skylarks before I bought mine in 1981. 23 years later I got another.

[pooods]

In my earlier posts, I didn't mean all GM autos were horribly designed. They have some nice cars. I even think the GTO is a very nice car. But, they all seem average in appearance, and that is at best. This is the safe way to design cars and not go out on a limb. They even let me down with their late 90's change in pickup design. It didn't look much different than the 88 (although a better all around performer). The Aztec is proof of how ugly they can build. My whole life is average, so I want a car that sticks out of the crowd. GM does not offer that option for me.

[67Wildcat2post]

I've got my two (everything else in my sig belongs to the family), I'll buy one more, and I don't ever plan on buying a new car. Not from GM, anyway. The only reason I'm getting another one is because of gas prices. One of my friends asked why I drive my 81 when it uses so much gas? His truck (a Ford) sat out for a month and the transmission seized up. Mine sat for a year after I blew the motor, and the transmission shifted like the day it was new. Mine's an 81, his is a 99. Something wrong with that. Mine even got hit with a dump truck one time, I drove it home that night. 99.9% of all new cars are POSs. GM ain't made a decent truck since 87 (when I said I like the trucks earlier, I meant compared to everything else on the road). They haven't made a good small 4x4 SUV since the old Blazer. The best of their cars I've ever rode in was a 93. All car companies are going down the drain. Y'all just wait. I'm going to school to build cars when I get out of high school, and I'm gonna model all mine after the early 80s Chevys.