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1970 GSX Saturn Yello

Discussion in 'Color is everything!' started by freakzilla, Oct 30, 2024.

  1. freakzilla

    freakzilla Well-Known Member

    Anyone have the correct difference between Saturn Yellow and Sunflower yellow? My paint guy think it's basically the same. Trying to get the correct mix. I sprayed the Sunflower but then was told it's incorrect. Help a brother out here...
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Ryans-GSX

    Ryans-GSX Have fun, life is short.

    ohhhhhhhhh my friend let me just tell you a story about trying to get the right yellow for a GSX hahaha you can read the thread on my signature if you like but the short answer is :

    Contact Dave Tumas (Daves69) he has the formula and we worked on it for over a year to get my car the correct color
     
    BYoung, tdacton, pbr400 and 3 others like this.
  3. ROCK N ROLL GSX

    ROCK N ROLL GSX Well-Known Member

    There are actually TWO different shades of Saturn Yellow that came from the factory. One is the Ditzler PPG mix and the other is the Dupont mix. Both were used in production. They do look slightly different. I recall noticing the differences in the two seeing the original paint GSX'S that were in Bowling Green. Back in the early 80'S. It might have been the second GS Nationals. When the car show was held at the Green Wood shopping center and not at the track. I still recall vividly an elderly gentleman in his early 80'S driving out of the show with a perfect 70 GSX four speed with the Dupont color on it. Watching and looking at the car leaving for as far as the eye can see. Wondering where that car is today !!! We do have a number of gallons of
    "both original mixes" acquired decades ago. And even have gallons of original Saturn Yellow lacquer. In sealed air tight containers. Kept climate controlled. I guess we be splitting hairs on the Dupont and PPG mix ? Because everyone uses the PPG mix. Dupont mix is non existent now. We save all these paint mixes and types for concours restos. The ultimate GSX Concours resto would for sure be with the lacquer. Brother Duane's stock appearing GSX is done in lacquer. Mixed with the original PPG codes.
    The color is spot on !!!
     
    docgsx likes this.
  4. StratoBlue72

    StratoBlue72 Well-Known Member

    Personally I'd go with R-M or Glasurit, both products of BASF. R-M made the best laquer in the day, not sure if anybody around that has the toners to mix it any longer. But R-M Diamont b/c is definitley available as well as Glasurit 55 Line, and has formulas for all the old colors. We had a body shop for lots of years. Used DuPont, PPG, R-M, and stuck with R-M for over 30 years. Their b/c is far superior to DuPont / Axalta and PPG.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2024
    Brian Albrecht likes this.
  5. Ryans-GSX

    Ryans-GSX Have fun, life is short.

    That is the big problem we ran into is that finding the toners is extremely difficult.


    WOW !!! I sure wish I had known you had some original Saturn Yellow Lacquer. Would have made my restoration a lot easier lol. That said I went with Base/Clear yellow so I could touch it up as I am sure I will get a few marks on it as time goes by because I plan to drive the car not just let it sit in a garage.


    I didnt know that but it makes sense now as I have seen a few GSX's that only slightly varried in original paint. I pushed the difference off as something to do with maybe one being in the sun longer or maybe some kind of polish was used differently.
     
  6. austxsteve

    austxsteve Well-Known Member

    For me, when I started working on my clone... I picked up a can of the Sunflower. We painted the firewall. Sat like that for months. Then the Kissimmee Mecum came to town, and I found a real GSX and took a bunch of photos. When I returned home and compared, I was so embarrassed. My paint was vastly different. Called up my local PPG dealer and picked up a can of Saturn Yellow and repainted. Sunflower was a faint, or soft yellow. The Saturn is to me, closer to a Caterpillar Bulldozer color, much deeper yellow.
     
    Brian Albrecht likes this.
  7. ROCK N ROLL GSX

    ROCK N ROLL GSX Well-Known Member

    Original mix Lacquer will give the most accurate color of a Saturn Yellow. And is the easiest to blend and touch up. But it is not as durable. Here is a picture of an original 71 Stage 1 in Cortez Gold Lacquer that we restored and painted in 1989.
    Lacquer if cared for and not left exposed to the elements will hold up. But not nearly as well as modern paint. At the time this was painted in 1989 ALL the paint companies still mixed lacquer. We got a few mixes from different companies, until we got a perfect match, and they were slightly different from each other . This is a recent picture of the car and represents what it looks like today. Hard to comprehend that it has been 35 years since we restored this GS.

    71 STAGE 1.jpg
     
    rolliew and docgsx like this.
  8. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    Technically Saturn yellow and sunflower yellow share the same paint code in Ditzler. I ordered a spray can of Saturn yellow a couple years ago and it wasn't even close
     
    docgsx likes this.
  9. ROCK N ROLL GSX

    ROCK N ROLL GSX Well-Known Member

    There isn't a color chip on the paint sample page for Saturn Yellow from any of the manufacturers. But the number is listed on some of them. You need that number to get the correct color IF they can mix it.
     
  10. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    Ryan should sell Saturn yellow touch up paint.
     
    docgsx likes this.
  11. Ryans-GSX

    Ryans-GSX Have fun, life is short.

    Dave sells a spray out paint sample and code for cheap to help people and recoup a few bucks for his time and effort. I think he charges something like a whole $10 or $15. Not much but something. If its not worth that to save someone the headache I went through they are crazy.
     
  12. LSMS

    LSMS Lone Star Motorsports

    From paintref.com (linked below) there are two listings of paint mixes for Saturn Yellow. One listing is an exact match for Sunflower Yellow (PPG 2338 and Dupont 5283LH). However, the second listing is a slightly different mix and what I believe is a more accurate shade for Saturn Yellow (PPG 81838 and Dupont 5139). PPG 81838 is what I relied upon when it was available.

    https://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedisplay.cgi?ditzler=81838&rows=50
     
    docgsx likes this.
  13. LSMS

    LSMS Lone Star Motorsports

    With my last post in mind, would anyone happen to have an old "Ditzler Automotive Finishes Master Color Service" book from 1970?

    That book gives the actual paint formula for all Ditzler colors available at the time.

    I would like to see the original Saturn Yellow formula listed in that book.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2024 at 5:02 AM
  14. LSMS

    LSMS Lone Star Motorsports

    Sometime the original formula was typed on the backside of paint can labels.

    Would you be willing to peel a label off one of your cans of paint to see if the formula is there?
     
  15. ROCK N ROLL GSX

    ROCK N ROLL GSX Well-Known Member

    They are in sealed air lock containers. Will have to open and take a look.
     
    LSMS likes this.
  16. LSMS

    LSMS Lone Star Motorsports

    I do appreciate your willingness to help. Please only proceed if there is no risk of damage to your paint.
     
  17. StratoBlue72

    StratoBlue72 Well-Known Member

    A lot of times the " factory pack " paint that PPG, DuPont, and R-M make is a better match than mixed off a stir bank. But working all the years in my dad's shop, I turned into a self proclaimed color match pro as we had our own paint mixing set up. I did tons of tinting, and sometimes built my own formulas from scratch. So to me it's not a big deal to tweak and match most colors.
    Actually if I was doing a solid color, I'd do it with R-M Uno single stage urethane. The best single stage paint I've ever came across.
     
    Dano likes this.
  18. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    Exactly....never understood the issue with the saturn yellow...red shade green...redoxide...weak black and white and a couple others and 20min...I'll dead match a sample
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2024 at 7:20 AM
    BUQUICK likes this.
  19. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    Uno is good....and I AGREE 100%....ABSOLUTELY no sense in doing base clear on a solid color...none
     
  20. BUQUICK

    BUQUICK I'm your huckleberry.

    I thought you guys might find this interesting, it's the announcement from Ditzler in February 1970, about the new special exterior color, Saturn Yellow, for the 1970 Buick GSX. As ROCK N ROLL GSX mentioned, they didn't include a color chip nor the mixing formula.

    Ditzler Paint Bulletin 1970-2 Saturn Yellow GSX.jpg
    1970 Buick paint color chart 0 GSX 70.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2024 at 8:12 AM
    Dano and Ryans-GSX like this.

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