2004r broke

Discussion in 'The "Juice Box"' started by duke350, Dec 2, 2020.

  1. duke350

    duke350 Well-Known Member

    I bought a stage 1 built 2004r and put it behind the 350 in my ‘72 GS about six years ago. When I swapped to a 455, I overtorqued the transmission and broke it. So I sent it back to Extreme Automatics and had it built to stage 2 specs so it could live behind the new motor(464ci BBB, 500hp/550tq).

    The problem is the new stage 2 transmission has never shifted right. It’s built with a reverse manual valve body with single wire lockup in fourth gear. When I put it in, the shifts would flare and the transmission ended up burning up the clutches.

    I spoke to Lonnie, who has been great through all of this, and he said he would buy it back from me since he can’t get this unit right and due to Covid, his suppliers are not working out.

    This leaves me with no transmission at all. Any suggestions for another builder? I’m at a loss here.
     
  2. duke350

    duke350 Well-Known Member

    I’ve thought about going to a 7004r, but I read that they aren’t a direct bolt in. Just not sure which way to go now that this 2004r is toast. I definitely want to keep the overdrive.
     
  3. jaystoy

    jaystoy Well-Known Member

    Hmm.....so sorry to hear that.....makes me a tad nervous, as I just took delivery of a Stage 2 built 2004r from Extreme. Still in the basement. Hoping I did not make a mistake with Extreme Automatics. Shifts flared know matter the gear? Lonnie said he dyno's them before shipment. What broke on the Stage 1 trans when put behind the 455?
     
  4. duke350

    duke350 Well-Known Member

    It was actually a combination of things. The drum broke on the stage 1 and the car just felt like neutral in all gears. Then when I sent it back to be rebuilt, I got it back and put it in and it lasted ~50miles before the innards of the governor came out. Sent it back again, and got it put back in and the shift flares from 2-3. I have less than 100 miles on this second round with the stage 2 and its broken again. Frustrated to say the least.

    So my unit is a reverse manual so it never shifts on its own and uses no TV cable.
    P-R-N-1-2-3-4(lockup) is how the gears go through my B&M Quicksilver ratchet shifter.

    pic attached for what I found in the pan when I drained it after ~50mi when the governor crapped out.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. duke350

    duke350 Well-Known Member

    Shifts flared only in 2-3 upshift. 1-2 was firm and positive, so was 3-4. I’ve been waiting to get this thing rebuilt again since July. Supplier shortages, Covid, yada yada...I get it, these days there are struggles worldwide. But 6 months for a broken second rebuilt unit to be fixed is ridiculous.

    Lonnie said send it back and he will refund my money since he can’t get a supplier to get him some plates for the valve body since mine is reverse manual.

    I appreciate his customer service, but frankly I just want what I paid for. Now I have to source another company to build me a performance 2004r with reverse manual valve body and I keep striking out.
     
  6. jaystoy

    jaystoy Well-Known Member

    Yikes bro.....that's horrible.....I really feel your pain. I built my own 2004r a few years ago. Had it behind my 455. Wife and I were out, and I split the Overdrive Planetary gear in 4's! What a mess. So I decided to pony up the cash to have one built by Extreme. I am hoping this was not a mistake, especially after hearing yours. I did not order one with manual reverse. But, when it was delivered......one of the front pump case bolts was not fully tightened and leaking trans fluid. And it was shipped missing the o-ring on the input shaft. Not cool.....just sloppy work. I called Lonnie, and he sent me new bolt and washer and o-rings, as the threads on the bolts were all screwed up. He apologized, and offered to take it back and go through it AGAIN. I said no. Famous last words, huh?
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
  7. 436'd Skylark

    436'd Skylark Sweet Fancy Moses!!!!!

    As a guy who owns a 2004r, i'll say they quite simply are not good transmissions. Even the turbo guys will tell you they are a PITA. Before you quote me and tell me how wrong I am, I know they can be built to handle big power. Yep Art Carr (CPT) will gladly take a huge check from you and you'll be all set.

    Otherwise i don't think it's possible to spend a reasonable amount of money and have a rugged and reliable 2004r. Its a smog era transmission that came behind the 307 olds and some 305 engines. Sure the claim to fame is the GN, but again lots of those guys have trouble with them too.
     
    D-Con likes this.
  8. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    You can always buy a Gear Vendors Overdrive and add it to the 400, or build a 4L80E. It’s a lot more affordable as of late.
     
    1969BSGS and GS464 like this.
  9. black70buick

    black70buick Well-Known Member

    In a sense I am a purist. 455s were mated to 400s for a reason (or many reasons). If you want a modern trans with OD you match the 400, and that is the 4L80e/85e. The 350's were matched to THM350s and the modern versions and variants in terms of power level handling and gearing are 200-4R, 700, 4L60.
    I believe some folks don't also consider the weight and third member gearing of a vehicle when selecting a mismatch combo. The GN is a light car, geared with 3.42, so yeah 500HP pumped out of a 3.8 is fine. A 455 pushing power earlier in the form of Torque in a 4200lb car (assuming tires hook) through a flimsy (but $$$ built) 2004R is a gamble. And to be fair irt 200s, the GN 200s internals were not the same as the base model GBodies.
     
    Doug's Stage X and techg8 like this.
  10. Golden Oldie 65

    Golden Oldie 65 Well-Known Member

    x2. I finally gave up on the 200-4R and had a TH350 built with all the good stuff, then had JW build me one of his 9.5" converters. I don't drive the car in a manner that I would necessarily need OD anymore but if I decided to do that I would absolutely add a GV unit to it. I have 2 Grand National transmissions that were completely rebuilt, supposedly with good parts, by a local place and yet another one from an `89 Caprice, also rebuilt but by a different place, and none of them work properly. I finally got really tired of swapping transmissions so there sits all that money in the back room, absolutely useless to me :mad:
     
  11. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    The 2004R is a good trans for a 350 or mild built 455.. in a cruiser... I just put one in a 71 Lesabre with that said mild built 455, so we will see how it holds up, but I am not worried. This one has been a bit of a pain to get it to shift like I want it to, but it's coming along,

    They are not the best option for a high torque GS.. they are just not cost effective when you consider durablity problems. You can buy every billet shaft and drum available, and there is still not guarantee, if your going to pound on it. For every guy that claims he has no issue with that trans from X builder in his 600 ft lb GS, I will show you 5 that have no luck at all with the same combo and builder.

    The V-6 turbo racers figured this out eventually, nearly every one of those cars that was serious, ended up with a 400 or a glide in it.
     
    D-Con and Mart like this.
  12. sbrmd

    sbrmd Well-Known Member

    My LeSabre...I'll let you guys know....
     
  13. Golden Oldie 65

    Golden Oldie 65 Well-Known Member

    And I just bought a turbo Regal. I don't really plan to race it so I hope I don't break it but at least I have 3 spares if I can ever get them to work right.
     
  14. BRUCE ROE

    BRUCE ROE Well-Known Member

    Another approach is a switch pitch TH400 with an axle ratio like my
    2.41:1. Mine will get 19 mpg and turn 2200 rpm at 70 mph, the switch
    pitch (extra gear) gets you a decent launch. Tough, cheap, fits. good luck,
    Bruce Roe
     
    Quick Buick likes this.
  15. 12lives

    12lives Control the controllable, let the rest go

    Ouch - that was my plan too.
     
  16. Max Damage

    Max Damage I'm working on it!

    Any body playing with the 10L90e?
     
  17. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
    Max Damage likes this.
  18. Mart

    Mart Gold level member

    I agree with Jim. Every trans guy thinks they are the best.:rolleyes:
     
  19. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

  20. 12lives

    12lives Control the controllable, let the rest go

    Well, Lonnie has a good rep with the turbo site.
     

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