59 Nailhead Rebuild SAGA

Discussion in ''Da Nailhead' started by Deadsled59, Jan 4, 2016.

  1. Deadsled59

    Deadsled59 Well-Known Member

    Hello all. I am in the process of wrapping up a drawn out rebuild of my '59 401 Nailhead. Its going back in my Air-bagged '59 Electra, but I have a few questions/dilemmas left to address. I have spent MANY hours on this site and on the phone with all the best, including our very own Tom Telesco, sorting out and carefully calculating my build. My machine shop here in VA has turned out to be a joke, and are having to go back and re-hone the block and re-install new guides, and actually supply Blue-Print numbers for me (Which is what I already paid for but was not delivered). They couldn't even fit my cam with new bearings installed- they didn't wanna scape/fit the bearings w the old cam bc its bent 4thou and i am now looking at 300$ to get undersize bearings and have them align bored OR scraping them myself... Long story short, Ive had my share of red-flags with them and I have a few things to finish rebuild wise, but heres what I'm working with so far.

    *401 bored .040 over (413 C.I.)
    *Tom Telesco Forged Pistons
    *10:1 Compression
    *Custom Comp Cam (212-218 @ .050) -Similar to stock but with higher lift than other available cams.
    with a 1.6 Ratio, I should have .489-intake and .505-exhaust lift. Plasma-Nitrided as well
    *100lb closed and 275 open Valve Springs
    *Stock size Stainless Valves
    *3 Angle Valve Job
    *Cast Guides w seals for Intake and Exhaust
    *Id LOVE to get my hands on a set of Toms Roller Rockers, but will settle for TA Perf Rollers unless something comes up on Toms end
    *Stock rods/Crank both w/ .010 undersize bearings
    *455 Romac Balancer ( haven't balanced assembly yet- ill address that later in the writeup)

    Thats the basics without getting too carried away.

    NOW... My engine questions come into play...
    Before this shady machine shop gets too carried away installing ANOTHER set of guides (they broke a few while cutting them for seals AND installed them on the wrong ports)*Should I looking into sending the heads off to Mike Lewis for mild porting/cleanup, and possibly rebuild for springs heights and all, or should I attempt the cleanup on my own since the guides will be out? (seats are finished and cut though)... I just don't want to nick the seats, assuming ANY of their already shady work is worth anything (The 3 angle job)...

    NEXT, is more of a chassis situation.
    Id like to ditch the Dynaflow and 2.78 gears for a 4L-70e using Russ Martins adapter for the 4L-60e and an open carrier w 3.07 or 3.23s OR a whole new rear is possible i suppose. I know this isn't TOO complicated, but I may keep the Dynaflow for rear-end locating reasons ill mention in a second- This is why I haven't balanced anything yet.

    *As far as the rear/driveline go for the 4L-70e, are there any drivability issues I should worry about using a 2-link like Russ sells from Hot Rods to Hell??? Like "entering driveways sideways" I've read over and over.. I know the pinion angle will change throughout travel w a 2-link, and that may be an issue because my suspension is adjustable and i WILL be laying it on the ground/lowering the cruise height from time to time. 4-Linking seems like a pain in the A$$ because of space limits (rear seat-pan is close to the rear) but should keep the pinion angle constant...

    I know this is a lot to read/chew on, and I really didn't wanna make two posts, but it really comes down to this..

    ENGINE REBUILD/HEADS
    *Weighing out cost of heads being ported/cleaned up while I have the guides out by Mike, and setting spring heights VS tackling that myself and maybe some local help.
    *Also, Beehive springs with Stock 3/8 valves. Is this something thats doable?

    CHASSIS/REAR/TRANS SWAP
    *2-Link drivability VS 4-Linking?
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]*Open driveshaft, or what about a carrier bearing setup for more clearance of my seat pan possibly?[/FONT]

    Anyone with any advice/expertise on anything I've mentioned, please fire away! Thanks in advance. Will- 804-712-3325
     
  2. jamhdit

    jamhdit Just nuts about buick's

    One thing thing I know for sure if you installing new guides you need to redo your valve job. You must do a valve job using the guide angle that is used or the valves will not close properly.

    john




     
    Superstingray77 likes this.
  3. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    Mike Lewis is one of the highest skilled guys out there. I'm sure whatever you pay him is a bargain.
    There is no comparison to "I'll do it myself"
     
  4. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    you can make the cam journals smaller and not mess with the bearings. also you will need to shim the valve springs maybe 20 thousand to get your seat pressure to at least 110-115 with that cam.
     
  5. Deadsled59

    Deadsled59 Well-Known Member

    The cam was Plasma Nitrided and polishing the journals to a smaller diameter would undo that process, or so i was told. While we're talking about shimming the Valve Springs, how important is equalizing the valve heights? That is something I'm concerned about, ESPECIALLY being that i need new guides installed, and if the seats need to be re-worked, I can only imagine how fun it will be to get them to have another go at the seats... I asked them the same question about Valve Heights and was told "They aren't perfect but theyre close enough"...

    This of course is all before I'm supplied with Blue Print numbers, so they may have changed their tune about this. Ill be stopping back in the shop when the guides from Russ come in.
     
  6. Deadsled59

    Deadsled59 Well-Known Member

    Is there any way around redoing the valve job when they install new guides? Or is that something I should feel and remain adamant about?
     
  7. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    No way, remain adamant.
    I can't accept that any shop would be ok with this!
     
  8. 66BulldogGS

    66BulldogGS Platinum Level Contributor

    The valve job should have been the last thing machining they did for the heads prior to assembly. Gotta get the new guides in, do the seat work, and then shape the valves to the setup so you get a good seat. My shop was able to take valves out of the old heads I had and do the valve job with them. He was concerned about the length of the valves to make sure they were all the same or within his comfort zone. My guy does nothing but engine work and builds mostly high end race engines. I haven't put the engine all back together yet, so we will see how all his work turned out.
     
  9. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    you have to worry about the cam lobes wearing out not the journals the bearings will wear first. if you look maybe all the intake valves are the same height and all the exhaust are the same height, hopefully.
     
  10. Deadsled59

    Deadsled59 Well-Known Member

    Alright, Russ supplied my machine shop with only enough guides to replace the ones they broke- NOT enough to redo/put the Spiral Cut Guides in the intake and the Non Spiral guides on the exhaust after pressing the first set out. Somewehre there was a communication error and I was told the Spirals should be on the intake, not what I'm being told now. In actuality, this makes more sense when you think about it. The exhaust guides would benefit being the Spirals, holding more oil in the guide that is actively trying to blow the oil back up the stem- in my mind anyway.

    SO, that seems to be taken care of until it comes time to redo those couple seats. However, I'm still waiting on ALL of my Blue-Print numbers. Fingers crossed theres no more snags, and Ill just have to figure out what to do about fitting the cam in the meantime- either with undersize bearings and align boring, or align boring this extra set of Standard Size bearings that were ordered. How about those bee-hive springs though, using my 3/8 stems? Anyone? Or does it make more sense to use what I've listed in the original post, sir simplicity...?

    Chassis wise, I'm still kicking the 2-Link vs 4-link ideas around as well to utilize that 4L series transmission, eliminating my torque tube, gaining overdrive.

    Thanks for the ideas and support so far! Any further input is still greatly appreciated!
     
  11. Deadsled59

    Deadsled59 Well-Known Member

    Assuming the worst, that my stems ARE NOT all the same height, what sort of variation between them would everyone agree is acceptable? I just like to know these things, and essentially NEED to at this point to make sure this is the last time I pick my parts up from my machinist, 1.5 hrs away...
     
  12. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    When you say "align bore, std. or undersize bearings and grinding journals" are you referring to the crankshaft?
    This isn't normal terminology or processes for camshafts in these engines.
     
  13. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    Sorry, re-read post.
    Cams are normally straightened at the factory when made using V blocks and a hammer if they are a bit bent.
    Or you can get a different one if nobody's comfortable with that.
    It's also not terribly uncommon to pass a boring bar down the cam tunnel to straighten out a crooked block.
    I've seen it done with bearings in place, sometimes easier when there are slightly smaller journals on the cam, allowing to bore the smaller ones to the correct size.
    I've not heard much about grinding cam journals down when a block is crooked.
     
  14. wkillgs

    wkillgs Gold Level Contributor

    I think he means the cam fits too tightly in the new cam bearings, it seems to happen on Nailheads.
    When I built my first in 1979, the machine shop align honed the cam bearings for proper cam fit.
    A few years ago a different shop wanted to polish the cam journals to make the cam fit. I used a different method and cut a groove in each of the cam journals on an old cam, and used it as a cutter to shave the cam bearings.
     
  15. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    I was being sarcastic.
    The method you describe with turning an old cam into a tool is also acceptable.
    There might even be pics of that in the forum.
     
  16. wkillgs

    wkillgs Gold Level Contributor

  17. Deadsled59

    Deadsled59 Well-Known Member

    Update:

    After speaking with Tom again, Guide height variation should be within .020-.030 thou.

    I also located and bought a rear carrier for my open drive line conversion.
    Its from a 61-62 Fullsize Buick, 3.23 gears, and POSI!
    It wasn't cheap, but i think its the best thing I could throw in my axle housing to continue with this conversion. Ill maintain my big buick brakes and housing, but gain better gears and posi. with the overdrive transmission.

    Does anyone have any input/recommendation on where to look for a 4L-60e, 4L-65e, 4L-70e online, thats been beefed up to handle at least 500 ft-lbs of torque?
    I keep seeing mixed reviews about Gearstar AND Monster trans...

    More to come as I plan to visit my machine shop in the next week or two to check on progress. Any further help is once again, appreciated!
     
  18. Bigpig455

    Bigpig455 Fastest of the slow....

    With 3.23 gears, you might be happier with a ST400.

    3.23 is a great gearset, and depending on tire diameter will give you a very comfortable high speed cruise on a 1:1 final drive. a '65 or '66 ST400 gives you the switch pitch converter (which makes a 3.23 feel like a 3.73 at the jump) and a nailhead specific bellhousing, no fussy TV cable and bulletproof performance....

    I dont know if you'll have starter mounting issues with the 59 block, but you've got that to contend with anyway no matter what trans you use.

    Keep us posted please
     
  19. John Codman

    John Codman Platinum Level Contributor

    x2!
     
  20. Deadsled59

    Deadsled59 Well-Known Member

    The reason I've been looking at the 4L series is because of Overdrive for highway use, and the fact that i can "tune" it with a computer controller. If I'm ditching the dynaflow, why not gain everything I can vs the TH-400? Is there a reason I wouldn't want overdrive with my 3.23 rear?
     

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