I read somewhere there was an early 80's Valvoline commercial showing a 1970 Buick LeSabre with 500,000 documented miles, oil changes were done every 3,000 miles. Would that be possible without a rebuild? Thanks.
I dont see why not. Maintenance is everything. I'm sure everything that was bolted to the engine was replaced at least once. Now I remember seeing a commercial for Slick 50 where Al Unser was driving a Viper and they pulled the oil pan and ran it around the track with no oil and the claim was no engine damage. That I do not believe to be possible
The small print on the Slick 50 ad said ‘no oil on dipstick does not mean no oil was in pan’ or some ****. They ran it low but still covered the pickup. As for the Buick, I think one thing that killed most old engines was carburetor problems- once the carb starts to fail, it dumps raw fuel when running, the owner floods it starting it, and it becomes the junk the owner thinks it is due to cylinder wear, bearing wear and neglect. I agree, with diligent maintenance and doing needed repairs (and a little luck) it could do it. Patrick
What kills oil engines is lack of maintenance, of both the engine oil, as well as all the surrounding systems. The cooling system in particular can cause an early demise to any engine.. Saw that myself in one of our family cars growing up.. 73 Centurion 455 that ended up being my first car.. That thing always ran hot, you could smell it on a warm summer day.. but my Dad refused to investigate or repair it. The Hot light would blink on and off on those really Hot summer afternoons at stops. That shortened the life of the engine/trans in that car dramatically.. Years of running that engine at the edge of overheating every summer, had hardened the seals in the trans enough to cause it's failure.. even after I had replaced the radiator. It had a little over 150K on it when the direct clutch failed in high gear going down the freeway on me one evening.. gradually losing speed.. so I was gradually stepping harder on the accelerator to maintain speed. I was a teenager, the radio was blaring and I was not really paying attention to the car.. until the oil lite flickered on... When I saw the light, I turned down the radio and that thing must have been turning at the limits of it's hydraulic valve train... 6000 rpm at least.. which was more than the worn out bearings and oiling system could handle, and it wiped out number 4 main bearing, along with number 6 and 7 rods bearings. With the loss of both engine and trans, and in the days before I had the skills to do anything about that (I was just a unit replacer back then) that was the demise of a pretty nice car.. I would walk past in in a local junkyard for many years.. My only regret was not pulling the engine/trans to save for rebuilding.. 73 blocks have proven to be some of the most reliably thick in sonic testing, and it had a short shaft HD case TH 400 in it, which are getting harder to find every day. JW
Okay understood. I also read folks said most of the time a 100K miles is about time for a rebuild. This goes for engines that aren't maintained well for? A well cared for 430ci is able to do 500K miles without a rebuild?
That very much depends on how, where, and over what time period we are talking about. I have no issue with the commercials claim, because to achieve that mileage over a short period of time, moderate steady rpm, and light load, would be required. In the real world, wear happens during dry starts, and in extreme cold or hot conditions, and time is a huge factor here.. Most 50 plus year old motors, especially our big block buicks, "wear out" due to heat cycles more than actual running. Heat cycles cause the cylinders to go out of round, with a ever increasing degradation of ring seal, until it's blowing oil out the breathers.. at which time most would pronounce that engine "worn out". So when someone calls me with a 50 year old motor that has only 60K on it, and assumes that it will only require a re-ring, my answer is always the same.. Maybe.. we'll see.. JW
My Dodge Magnum RT is north of 160,000 miles and has never had a wrench on the engine (except for changing spark plugs and one serpentine belt.
That sounds like my 430ci....over 50 years old and 62K miles. Thanks for your info on the mileage subject. Robbie
When it comes to oil changes, i think with todays oils (at least here in Europe) driving a car regular with adding a quart every 1000 mls there is no need for an oil change any time soon. Especially when you drive it for at least 30 minutes every time you go for a ride. An oil change every year is not what i do. Todays oil is too good for that.
You mentioned heat cycles cause the cylinders to go out of round. Possibly already at 60K mls. It would be because of 50 years of driving short distances? Or a low nickel compound in the block?
Thin wall casting Robbie. That's why cylinders go out of round with heat cycles. Buick engines are actually a high nickel content iron, this was done specifically to allow the thin wall casting technology in the late 60's. They are noticeably harder to machine than other engine blocks, and I can't ever recall seeing a Buick block with a ridge on the top of the cylinders. I think I sold my ridge reamer at a garage sale years ago. ------------- Oil quality has nothing to do with change intervals. Every time that engine starts and runs, it deposits combustion by products into the crankcase via blow by, that form acids in the motor oil. While you will boil off the moisture that also condensates inside the oil pan with long drives, and will evaporate any raw fuel that may have gotten by the rings, you do nothing to eliminate the other acids forming in the oil. In fact, the longer you run it, the more combustion by-products you introduce into the oil. You change the oil to get rid of that contamination. The best indicator of when the oil needs to come out is watching it's color.. when it starts to darken, it's time to go. Easy to do on a new engine that's spotlessly clean inside, but on an old engine this is harder to do.. When faced with this, I recommend ruining several changes thru the engine with a high detergent oil, or standard oil with one quart replaced with trans fluid.. In the past, I have done this, and it usually takes 2-4 changes with 500-1000 mile intervals to clean up that engine to the point where you can then start watching oil color for a true indication of contamination/additive breakdown. Not changing you oil for years?... Well, speaking of commercials.. the old Fram "pay me now, or pay me later" one comes to mind. ---------------------------------- While today's oil lack the extreme pressure additives for our old engines, most stock engines are "work hardened" and will survive just fine in their 50 plus year old stock configurations. But once you press that engine into performance service, then it's a different ballgame. Now you need those extreme pressure additives, and nothing on the shelf these days has them, in the right balance. It's a fine dance between Zinc and phosphorus and then detergents to produce the correct extreme pressure protection. The Valvoline VR products are close, but the thermal stability of that oil is so poor, I quickly switched back to the specialty oils on the dyno, and for my recommendations to new engine customers. This is also true if you rebuild the engine to stock specs.. While you don't have the high spring pressures and high cylinder pressures that performance engines have, you lost your "work hardened" surfaces. So they must be protected until you can achieve that status once again.. JW
Thanks for your reply Jim. I do use an additive for extreme pressure. I always thought that when the oil is getting darker after an oil change as you're making miles, the oil is doing its job as it should and color does not indicate the oil to be beyond it's lubrication life? Especially after a 1000 miles or so. The fresh oil catching particals in the engine making the oil darker, isn't that just normal?
Conventional motor oil also create it's own contamination that synthetic oils do not. I am sceptical of the "change it when it changes color" thing, but frequency is important. Read the recommended service life of the oil product you like and don't go beyond that. https://knowhow.napaonline.com/engine-oil-turns-black-dont-panic/
I believe I bought a 455 from this fellow in this story 10-15 years ago. At the time his truck had 750,000+ miles and he was going for a million. The key for his engine lasting was he would start the truck in the morning go back in the house and do all his paperwork for the day, Basically he let the engine warm up before driving off. I told my dad about Franks truck and he suggested pilots do the same thing, he explained the condensation in the engine dissipates as the engine warms up rather than the moisture mixing in with the oil and causing premature bearing failure. I often think about what my dad said as I start my car and drive off…lol fyi Jim, this was the 455 engine I brought to the dyno shop the day you finished and put my 470 on the dyno. https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18826415
What would be the hypothetical ulitmate motor maintenance ? Change the oil every 2000 to 3000 and maby driving it for 50 t0 100 miles and changing the oil for the 2nd time after few cycles after maby 5 oil changes......... Would you use synthetic? Spraying each cylinder with oil and valve train before start up.. This is hypothetical What temp would you keep the motor constant at? and what ratio of antifreeze and maintenance on the cooling system? How would you start the car if it has a regular Q-jet for example without getting fuel sprayed into the cylinders? Tranny oil and filter changes? I would think running the motor at different rpms and the occasional WOT is helpful?
Oil change interval depends entirely on the particular engine build, and how it's used.. could be as short as 500 miles, as long as 5000. If you follow my recommendations and get the oil out of there when it starts to turn black, then you will be fine. That napa article was written with new cars in mind, and no, the oil does not turn dark from additives "going to work",, it turns dark in new cars because most of them run pretty hot, and the heat darkens it. In general, cars with radical builds and long camshaft timing have much shorter oil change intervals than something more stock. With the correct Driven HR oil in it, with the storage additive that makes it cling to the parts, there is no need or advantage so any pre-start lubrication gyrations. If your really going for the ultimate low wear startup, then you would install a accusump system on the engine, and flood it with charged oil right before you started it. There is no need or advantage to using an artificial base stock oil, vs conventional, unless your driving in extremely cold or hot conditions. Engine temp 180-200* Oil temp will follow closely. Depends on what type of transmission.. but generally every 25K miles, or again, when the fluid starts to change color. And again, depends on what your doing.. I change it once a year in vehicles that get serious towing duty during the summer. Yes, the occasional WOT blast and the resulting high cylinder pressures help keep things clean. "Decarbonizing runs" is not just a saying.. JW
Is it true that once you use synthetic you can't go back to conventional? My driver has had synthetic from almost day one.
My sprinter has a recommended oil change interval of 10,000 miles. Been following this from day one and its just turned over 200K.TH MB service sched for the trans was fluid / filter at 100 K miles and then never again. It came with a sealed dipstick tube. Had to buy the "special dipstick" and then that high dollar fluid.
